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First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

Jason_R

Private
Minuteman
Jan 14, 2009
11
0
I was thinking about getting a Remington 700 5r, having it coated black and throwing into a 700P stock (I don't like the 5r stock much) and having Badger bottom metal installed. Is it worth it? Is it something I can do myself, or best left to a professional?

I'm considering other rifles and packages, but getting mixed opinions if doing the work to the 5r is worth it versus a custom or semi-custom rifle.
 
Re: First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

If you have a mill or if you have superhero dremel skills, you can pull if off. You can also get Williams bottom metal,it fits right in, if all you want is to improve from the factory metal.If your after the detach mag system then do the Badger.Do it yourself if you have the proper tools and if you are confident in yourself.
 
Re: First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

Scoop up a HS Precision DBM system. Its basically a drop in unit.
 
Re: First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

Transferring from one stock to another shouldn't be a problem.

I spoke to Randy at R&D Precision once regarding installing the Badger M5 (I am assuming you were talking about the DBM, and not the M4?) into a HS stock and he made it very clear for me to steer clear of that combination, both for aesthetic and installation reasons. You may want to send him a PM and ask him about it.

I personally think the 5r is a great way to start with... Many have started with less expensive, though not less capable options. If you know you may not keep this rig in its current proposed form for too long, you may also want to consider the CDI Precision DBM which is I believe is $100+ cheaper than the Badger, and still uses the AI Mag. Seekins is another good one but they use a proprietary mag and only the 5 round version is available right now. Just a couple other cheaper (in price only) options to consider.
 
Re: First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

A 5R is an awesome rifle to start with. Like what was said before, there are less expensive options, but if you can foot the bill, the 5R will work wonderfully for you. I've got one in .223 and I love it.
 
Re: First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

If you can afford a custom, then get the custom as long as it's from a reputable smith.

The 5R is a great out of the box rifle as many have said. It will outshoot most shooters with the right load.

There isn't a huge difference between the 5R stock and the PSS stock other than the forend shape.

I went through two H-S stocks on my 5R and while the rifle shot well with them both, they didn't fit my shooting hand right. I ended up with a McM A4 on it and haven't looked back.
 
Re: First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

The thing is, a lot of folks will seek a custom build with the expectation that it will improve their shooting. In some ways it will, by producing fewer 'unexplained' flyers, and maybe tightening up their groups to the extent that tighter production specs can help somewhat.

But the ugly truth is that most group expansions and flyers are not induced by equipment, they are the fault of the shooter.

Two key facts get overlooked in the quest for an impeccable implement. Factory rifles these days do a pretty good job of delivering accuracy. In the cold light of truth, not so many of us are shooting so well that a factory rifle is holding back our performance to any significant degree.

Ego and aspiration can get in the way of effective firearm acquisition. Here's how I'd suggest one decides whether a potential acquisition is helping our ego, or actually helping our performance.

At 50ft, with a .22LR, fire ten groups of ten rounds, each of which can be completely covered by a quarter. This is similar to the requirement for the Boy Scout Rifle Shooting Merit Badge. A truly accomplished shooter, with a truly accurate .22LR and good ammo, can accomplish this task off the bags at 50yd.

At 100yd, with the help of a friend who owns a suitably excellent custom rifle, prove that you can shoot significantly better with that rifle than with your present implement.

Until one can do these two things, the earmarked money is far better spent on ammo, to be used to improve one's performance until one can accomplish these tests.

Finally, while doing this workup, understand that the ergonomic fit of most factory rifles is configured to a nominal average standard, and few people truly fit that standard. Take the time to adjust things like length of pull, scope eye relief, and cheek-rest height. Just do it. What you will find is that you have accomplished a few of the things that a custom rifle will deliver, making better shooting easier to do. This translates into a solid degree of confidence in your own abilities, and a quicker transition to the point where that custom rifle will deliver your real expectations. It gives real value to the expenditure.

Greg
 
Re: First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Transferring from one stock to another shouldn't be a problem.

I spoke to Randy at R&D Precision once regarding installing the Badger M5 (I am assuming you were talking about the DBM, and not the M4?) into a HS stock and he made it very clear for me to steer clear of that combination, both for aesthetic and installation reasons. You may want to send him a PM and ask him about it.

I personally think the 5r is a great way to start with... Many have started with less expensive, though not less capable options. If you know you may not keep this rig in its current proposed form for too long, you may also want to consider the CDI Precision DBM which is I believe is $100+ cheaper than the Badger, and still uses the AI Mag. Seekins is another good one but they use a proprietary mag and only the 5 round version is available right now. Just a couple other cheaper (in price only) options to consider. </div></div>

Would I be better off buying a McMillan A5 then? And yes, I was referring to the Badger DBM. My thinking is I could shoot the rifle as is until I acquire the parts to change stocks and bottom metal, and send it off for refinishing.
 
Re: First Precision Rifle...is this worth it..?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The thing is, a lot of folks will seek a custom build with the expectation that it will improve their shooting. In some ways it will, by producing fewer 'unexplained' flyers, and maybe tightening up their groups to the extent that tighter production specs can help somewhat.

But the ugly truth is that most group expansions and flyers are not induced by equipment, they are the fault of the shooter.</div></div>

While I agree that most group expansions and flyers are the shooter's problem, not the equipment, I believe that less experienced shooters are the biggest beneficiaries of good equipment... if there is a flyer, they know it is them and not the equipment. Put yourself in the position of an inexperienced shooter that is shooting well and is getting random, unexplained flyers, and now tries to do their best to correct these flyers by changing what is otherwise solid technique.

There is a time before that when the equipment is not getting in the way, but when does the shooter know the equipment is getting in the way? I think the rest of your post is a good follow up:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At 50ft, with a .22LR, fire ten groups of ten rounds, each of which can be completely covered by a quarter. This is similar to the requirement for the Boy Scout Rifle Shooting Merit Badge. A truly accomplished shooter, with a truly accurate .22LR and good ammo, can accomplish this task off the bags at 50yd.

At 100yd, with the help of a friend who owns a suitably excellent custom rifle, prove that you can shoot significantly better with that rifle than with your present implement.
</div></div>

I think that is one equipment acquisition philosophy. Then there is the buy once, cry once philosophy... basically, you get the best that you can afford and ultimately, you will be able to sell the equipment if you decide to get out of the game. Try getting your money back out of a substandard factory piece, and you will likely find yourself out as much money or more than going the high-end route.

Of course, for those without a lot of cash on hand, the stair-step method that you advocate is faster and more easily achievable. For those with money in hand, they might be better served with the "buy once cry once" philosophy because they will never have to worry about reaching the limits of their weapon and not knowing it... and they will never feel bad about a purchase.

Finally, I like this advice a lot:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...while doing this workup, understand that the ergonomic fit of most factory rifles is configured to a nominal average standard, and few people truly fit that standard. Take the time to adjust things like length of pull, scope eye relief, and cheek-rest height. Just do it. What you will find is that you have accomplished a few of the things that a custom rifle will deliver, making better shooting easier to do. This translates into a solid degree of confidence in your own abilities, and a quicker transition to the point where that custom rifle will deliver your real expectations. It gives real value to the expenditure.</div></div>

There are two part to the custom process: 1) having the money to buy something that is going to meet your needs and 2) knowing your needs. I think this is the best argument for the "stair-step" acquisition strategy. Unless you know what your practical needs are, it is tough to spec a custom rifle properly. As an example, I have a round face, which means that when I get a good cheek weld, my line of sight is pretty low, necessitating a high comb. Without enough trigger time to figure that out, I might end up spec'ing a custom out that does not meet my needs.

In this case, any kind of trigger time, even behind a totally inaccurate gun, will give a shooter a sense of what kind of ergonomics they require. This is aside from the accuracy argument, and, IMO, is sage advice and something pretty seldomly discussed here that matters a whole lot.

I knee-jerk disagreed with this post when I read it, but after reading it three or four times, I have to say that there is not a lot about it that I disagree with, I just think it is important for anyone considering a first custom purchase to think about the fact that there are a couple of different acquisition philosophies, each with their pros and cons.