FL Sizing Questions

[nick_f7.3]

Morning all,

I'll preface this post by saying that I'm new to reloading. I've searched the forum for answers to my questions but came up empty, so my apologies if these have already been answered.

Long story short, I'm have some troubles getting my FL sizing die set up correctly. I'm using a SAC FL die for 6mm creed with a .266 neck/shoulder bushing and one of their .2405 medium expander/decapping mandrels. I just can't seem to get a consistent shoulder bump of .002" on my once fired Hornady brass. I have cleaned it with SS media, annealed it with an AMP annealer and lubed it up using Hornady OneShot. I've been measuring every case I put through the sizing die, and most come out to between 0.001"-0.003" of bump, but every once in awhile I'll see something crazy like a .007" bump. Could this be due to brass inconsistency? If so, am I running any risks (other than over working the brass) with loading these extremely bumped cases?

Additionally, when I measure the necks I'm not seeing any of them at .266", a lot of them are in the .268"-.269" range. Is this due to "spring back" that I read so often about, and is this expected? I guess in my newbness I think that after I resize these pieces that they should slide back through the die, proving that they've been sized correctly but that hasn't been my experience. I've sized about 50 pieces and don't want to go any further until I'm certain I'm doing this correctly.

Thanks for all of your help in advance.

 

[supercorndogs]

Are you measuring your brass before and after sizing? I.E. IS it possible some of the cases coming out really short, went into the die really short too?

 

[Rocketvapor]

Seat a bullet, measure neck diameter, determine neck thickness.
.2685" after .2405" expander could be due to neck thickness.
What is the neck after seaating?

 

[nick_f7.3]

Are you measuring your brass before and after sizing? I.E. IS it possible some of the cases coming out really short, went into the die really short too?

Fair question. So I was putting each case in the comparator and zeroing out the caliper so I didn't have to do the math, so I was typically seeing -0.001 - -0.003 with some random cases being way off.

Seat a bullet, measure neck diameter, determine neck thickness.
.2685" after .2405" expander could be due to neck thickness.
What is the neck after seaating?

I haven't seated anything yet as I want to be sure I'm on the right path before any real money gets wasted.

 

[nn8734]

Fair question. So I was putting each case in the comparator and zeroing out the caliper so I didn't have to do the math, so I was typically seeing -0.001 - -0.003 with some random cases being way off.

I haven't seated anything yet as I want to be sure I'm on the right path before any real money gets wasted.

Money wont get “wasted” if you grab yourself a bullet puller. I use the Hornady cam lock puller and have it in a press dedicated to bullet pulling.

You’re going to want/need one (assuming you don’t already have one).

Also, once in a while, a case shoulder may be sized where the bump is much more than usual - it happens. Whether it’s truely a problem or not depends on how often it happens. If its like one in 20 or 30 (or even less frequently, non issue imo). If its more frequent id figure out whats wrong. Im no fan of Hornady brass but others here have success with it.

 

[nick_f7.3]

Money wont get “wasted” if you grab yourself a bullet puller. I use the Hornady cam lock puller and have it in a press dedicated to bullet pulling.

You’re going to want/need one (assuming you don’t already have one).

Also, once in a while, a case shoulder may be sized where the bump is much more than usual - it happens. Whether it’s truely a problem or not depends on how often it happens. If its like one in 20 or 30 (or even less frequently, non issue imo). If its more frequent id figure out whats wrong. Im no fan of Hornady brass but others here have success with it.

10-4, thanks for the info, I just set my seating die and went through ~12 bullets trying to get the correct depth, I'll definitely get a bullet puller.

@Rocketvapor the measured neck after seating a bullet was 0.272" which is what a new piece of factory ammo runs. This isn't achieving the 0.002" neck tension I was shooting for though

 

[ShtrRdy]

To see what the neck bushing is sizing the neck to, remover the expander ball from the decapping rod and size a case then measure the neck diameter.

Variations in shoulder can be caused by differing amounts of lube on the case.

Are you using a turret or progessive press?

 

[Rocketvapor]

Using your measurement data, .266" bushing sized then expanded to .2685" with a .2405 expander sounds like your brass thickness is about 0.01575".
Might be normal for Hornady brass.

Your .272" seated, with a .2434" bullet looks like .0143" neck thickness.
Probably closer to actual.

 

[straightshooter1]

What caliper are you using?

I ask because there can be as much as .003 variation in measurements unless it's a high quality caliper along with the skill to get consistent measurements with caliper and comparator. Otherwise, doing a good anneal should lead to much better results.

The only other thing that I can think of off hand that might contribute to such a variation is the press you're using, where there can be enough flex in the system to contribute to that. . .???

Also, lube on the shoulder can be a contributing factor.

Another thing to get consistent sizing, is to be sure to have plenty of "dwell time" (the amount of time you keep the case inside the sizing die before extracting it). Typically, I use 4-5 seconds and I get variations of .001 or less on my annealed brass.

Anyway. . . .just some immediate thoughts that came to my mind.

 

[JM4590]

Here’s a crazy thought…..take the shit out and shoot it and see if the ones that are “more bumped” shoot to a diff POI. Unless there is a chambering issue, I’m betting it will make
No diff

 

[nick_f7.3]

To see what the neck bushing is sizing the neck to, remover the expander ball from the decapping rod and size a case then measure the neck diameter.

Variations in shoulder can be caused by differing amounts of lube on the case.

Are you using a turret or progessive press?

I'll give that a try. I'm using a RCBS Rockchucker.

Using your measurement data, .266" bushing sized then expanded to .2685" with a .2405 expander sounds like your brass thickness is about 0.01575".
Might be normal for Hornady brass.

Your .272" seated, with a .2434" bullet looks like .0143" neck thickness.
Probably closer to actual.

That makes sense, thanks for taking the time to explain that thought process to me.

What caliper are you using?

I ask because there can be as much as .003 variation in measurements unless it's a high quality caliper along with the skill to get consistent measurements with caliper and comparator. Otherwise, doing a good anneal should lead to much better results.

The only other thing that I can think of off hand that might contribute to such a variation is the press you're using, where there can be enough flex in the system to contribute to that. . .???

Also, lube on the shoulder can be a contributing factor.

Another thing to get consistent sizing, is to be sure to have plenty of "dwell time" (the amount of time you keep the case inside the sizing die before extracting it). Typically, I use 4-5 seconds and I get variations of .001 or less on my annealed brass.

Anyway. . . .just some immediate thoughts that came to my mind.

I'm using a set of Mitutoyo digital calipers. I'm basically just running the case in then pulling it back down without any "dwell time" that you suggest. I'll give that a shot to see if it yields more consistent measurements. Are you saying there should be no lube on the shoulder or I may not have enough lube on the shoulder?

Here’s a crazy thought…..take the shit out and shoot it and see if the ones that are “more bumped” shoot to a diff POI. Unless there is a chambering issue, I’m betting it will make
No diff

I'm sure you're right. I'm loading for PRS so I'm approaching my reloading from a consistency perspective and would like to at least work out WHY I'm seeing different measurements. I fully intend to shoot all of these loads, I'm the type of person that will always lack a little confidence in what I've produced unless I have an explanation for everything that has gone into my "product".

 

[hafejd30]

Keep in mind hornady brass is the most consistent. Also over lubing can cause variations

 

[straightshooter1]

I'm using a set of Mitutoyo digital calipers. I'm basically just running the case in then pulling it back down without any "dwell time" that you suggest. I'll give that a shot to see if it yields more consistent measurements. Are you saying there should be no lube on the shoulder or I may not have enough lube on the shoulder?

Yes, I'm sure "dwell time" will help as it takes a little time for metal to set when formed, reducing the amount of spring back.

Lube can be ok on the shoulder depending on the construction of the die. I use Forster dies that have a very small hole drilled to let any lube in the shoulder-neck area (I use Imperial sizing wax) to escape under the sizing pressure, so it doesn't effect the sizing being done. Without that, the lube will effect the sizing resulting in variations. You should be able to get more consistent results without lube on the neck. Using One-Shot, you may not be able to control how much lube you're getting onto that area. If it's very, very little on that area, that's all you really need there; but you may need more on the body.

 

[spife7980]

Use all the lube you can until you start to get dents in the body of the cases from hydraulic action. Too little is far more detrimental.

 

[Modoc]

Use all the lube you can until you start to get dents in the body of the cases from hydraulic action. Too little is far more detrimental.

After you have had to get a stuck case out, you will realize that lube is your friend.

 

[CK1.0]

Brass isn't Play-Doh, but it is malleable... it's soft enough that you're always going to have some slight variations in measurements whether it's Hornady or Lapua/Alpha.

Since you mentioned that you already have an AMP, you can skip most of the "spring-back guesswork" and I wouldn't even worry about it since that has more to do with finding a neck tension you like versus dealing with bump.

Just set your die and bump amount/numbers off of your longest fired cases, bump the longest ones back ~2 thou, then run the rest of the cases through the die once it's set (if you're sure the long ones are getting bumped correctly then you don't even have to bother measuring the shorter ones).

Then go fire them. (Every time you fire them you're fire-forming the malleable brass to your chamber and making the cases more alike.)

After a few firings, you'll find that most/all the cases measure about the same (within a thou or so) and that the measured bump has become more consistent as well.

 

[supercorndogs]

After you have had to get a stuck case out, you will realize that lube is your friend.

Lube also makes nice wrinkles or waves on the shoulders if you use too much.

 

[Modoc]

Lube also makes nice wrinkles or waves on the shoulders if you use too much.

The fun is finding the right amount.

 

[Vinootz]

Lube also makes nice wrinkles or waves on the shoulders if you use too much.

I figure Spife’s comment goes a bit further kinda suggesting to sacrifice getting a dent to find out how much of the lube you’re using is required. That’s how I figured how much to lube. You want as much as you need for smooth operation to prevent stuck cases without too much to prevent shoulder dent. It’s like when you anneal and need to find that line where perfect becomes too much. Holes in the dies help secrete excess lube as does cleaning inside the dies often. I dented a few cases apparently.

 

[Vinootz]

Morning all,

I'll preface this post by saying that I'm new to reloading. I've searched the forum for answers to my questions but came up empty, so my apologies if these have already been answered.

Long story short, I'm have some troubles getting my FL sizing die set up correctly. I'm using a SAC FL die for 6mm creed with a .266 neck/shoulder bushing and one of their .2405 medium expander/decapping mandrels. I just can't seem to get a consistent shoulder bump of .002" on my once fired Hornady brass. I have cleaned it with SS media, annealed it with an AMP annealer and lubed it up using Hornady OneShot. I've been measuring every case I put through the sizing die, and most come out to between 0.001"-0.003" of bump, but every once in awhile I'll see something crazy like a .007" bump. Could this be due to brass inconsistency? If so, am I running any risks (other than over working the brass) with loading these extremely bumped cases?

Additionally, when I measure the necks I'm not seeing any of them at .266", a lot of them are in the .268"-.269" range. Is this due to "spring back" that I read so often about, and is this expected? I guess in my newbness I think that after I resize these pieces that they should slide back through the die, proving that they've been sized correctly but that hasn't been my experience. I've sized about 50 pieces and don't want to go any further until I'm certain I'm doing this correctly.

Thanks for all of your help in advance.

Wish I was an expert that could help but I’m not. However, adjusting your die to bump with the “longest piece of fired brass” and using the feel method may be a good start. Keep in mind that you may need to fire brass two or three times to get it to form fully.

 

[MarkyMark007]

I'm have some troubles getting my FL sizing die set up correctly. I'm using a SAC FL die for 6mm creed with a .266 neck/shoulder bushing and one of their .2405 medium expander/decapping mandrels. I just can't seem to get a consistent shoulder bump of .002" on my once fired Hornady brass.

you dont have consistent shoulder bump because you dont have firlmy contact with die and shellholder.

to have firm/hard contact with die and shellholder, you must use shims from SAE die or redding competition shellholder. read manual again.

 

[supercorndogs]

I can get consistent bump without the shell holder touching the die. So do many others. Its also possible to get inconsistent bump with the shell holder touching the die.

 

[918v]

I can get consistent bump without the shell holder touching the die. So do many others. Its also possible to get inconsistent bump with the shell holder touching the die.

But it’s easier to get consistent shoulder bump by touching the shell holder. Then all you have to worry about is case shoulder hardness and lube.

 

[918v]

Morning all,

I'll preface this post by saying that I'm new to reloading. I've searched the forum for answers to my questions but came up empty, so my apologies if these have already been answered.

Long story short, I'm have some troubles getting my FL sizing die set up correctly. I'm using a SAC FL die for 6mm creed with a .266 neck/shoulder bushing and one of their .2405 medium expander/decapping mandrels. I just can't seem to get a consistent shoulder bump of .002" on my once fired Hornady brass. I have cleaned it with SS media, annealed it with an AMP annealer and lubed it up using Hornady OneShot. I've been measuring every case I put through the sizing die, and most come out to between 0.001"-0.003" of bump, but every once in awhile I'll see something crazy like a .007" bump. Could this be due to brass inconsistency? If so, am I running any risks (other than over working the brass) with loading these extremely bumped cases?

Additionally, when I measure the necks I'm not seeing any of them at .266", a lot of them are in the .268"-.269" range. Is this due to "spring back" that I read so often about, and is this expected? I guess in my newbness I think that after I resize these pieces that they should slide back through the die, proving that they've been sized correctly but that hasn't been my experience. I've sized about 50 pieces and don't want to go any further until I'm certain I'm doing this correctly.

Thanks for all of your help in advance.

Did you mix all your brass together? If so then your AMP will anneal each lot you put in the mix to a different hardness which will influence shoulder bump.

 

[nick_f7.3]

Did you mix all your brass together? If so then your AMP will anneal each lot you put in the mix to a different hardness which will influence shoulder bump.

I was mixing it all together, but it was all from the same lot so I figured I was good.

I've since swapped to Lapua brass and all of these issues have gone away, so I'm chalking this one up to brass inconsistency.

 

[MarkyMark007]

I can get consistent bump without the shell holder touching the die. So do many others. Its also possible to get inconsistent bump with the shell holder touching the die.

maybe most of people can get consistent bump without the shell holder touching the die, but I and some others can't.

even with Lee Classic cast press and RCBS Summit press I couldn't get consistent shoulder bump. maybe I am using wrong dies, wrong presses, maybe I check every piece of brass which others do not... I dont know...

so in this case, only solution is to shell holder touching the die. and this WILL get you consistent headspace if other things are !!