Flattest shooting AR15 cartridge to 500yds coyotes

[Baron85]

I have an upper that’s in need of a new barrel and figured I would build my ultimate coyote rifle. I’m looking for the flattest cartridge to 400-500yds from a 20” barrel that would be suitable for coyotes obviously. I do all my own reloading so don’t mind something like the 6x6.8 but don’t want to fuss with a ton of fireforming steps, cutting down, neck trimming etc of some wildcats.

From my searching it seems the 204 Ruger is my best candidate followed by the 22 nosler. The 6x6.8 is intriguing to me but seems the other 2 outperform it for my particular uses.

This will not be a high volume rifle, strictly for coyote and other varmints.

 

[Radioactiv]

I would say 204 or 224V would be the hottest options. my friend has a one of the super thin profile faxons 224v that makes the entire gun weigh around 9lbs with scope and 20" barrel. Hornady list 3300fps on the 60gr vmax, so im sure you could do better.

 

[steve123]

223 WSSM but I wouldn't build one after owning a 243 WSSM because the brass isn't consistent and the reliability wasn't there.

 

[Baron85]

My understanding is the Valkyrie was designed for heavier bullets? And the 22nosler would be better for light bullets

 

[RTH1800]

The .204 would be very good if not best and really easy. Use USGI mags as P mags are too short for COAL. I prefer the 32 grain Hornady load and have shot a few thousand. I tried the 39 and 40 grain bullets. Did not work out as well for me. Still very good and logic says they should be better. I just don't find it in the field. I also had some very light Hornady loads. 24 or 29 grains? They were not so accurate as the 32 grain. I shoot a 20" barrel suppressed.

 

[Radioactiv]

My understanding is the Valkyrie was designed for heavier bullets? And the 22nosler would be better for light bullets

It was designed around the 80-90s but he has had really good accuracy out of the 60grs. I am not sure how the speeds compare to it vs 22 nosler.


I cant say im too experienced in the area because I rarely see something past 100yards. I use a 14.5 and soon 10.5 5.56

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

6x6.8 is easy. Buy a set of dies from CH4D and it's a one step process.

 

[Baron85]

It was designed around the 80-90s but he has had really good accuracy out of the 60grs. I am not sure how the speeds compare to it vs 22 nosler.


I cant say im too experienced in the area because I rarely see something past 100yards. I use a 14.5 and soon 10.5 5.56

My current coyote rifle is a 12.5” 6.8spc but I moved and now have access to some wide open country that has plenty of long range potential. So would like a longer range capable cartridge.

 

[acudaowner]

while i do love my 224 valkyrie i would think 6.5 grendel would give more energy at 500 yards
though this is more a comparison between 556, 6.5, and 6.8 cant find comparison with 224 in it. and franks video at 2112 yards no idea on the energy at that distance

 

[Radioactiv]

while i do love my 224 valkyrie i would think 6.5 grendel would give more energy at 500 yards
though this is more a comparison between 556, 6.5, and 6.8 cant find comparison with 224 in it. and franks video at 2112 yards no idea on the energy at that distance

I assumed OP was looking for something flatter than more energy I was looking at mainly 6mm and under. I have a 6.5 grendel I have shot out to 600 with 123s and it has some drop. Im still waiting to find that federal 90grain load in stock

 

[Baron85]

I looked at the Grendel but from what I calculated based off stated velocities the Grendel/Valkyrie/6x6.8 don’t really gain advantage for drop until after 500yds. Seems the faster lighter bullets in the 204 and 22 nosler are the better bets for under 500yds.

With all that being said I have no first hand experience with any of these. Also have some concerns of terminal performance on coyotes with the 204 at distance.

 

[RTH1800]

The .204 will work quiet well at 500 yards with good shot placement. It is about the easiest caliber to hit with at that range you can imagine. I'm not a huge fan of basing my decisions on bullet energy. Well placed shots seem to work and poorly placed shots tend to fail. YMMV

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

I run a 224V for coyotes, but my hunting area is a bit different. I'm hunting steep hills through pretty heavy brush. So unless I'm on cleared right-of-ways and just happen to see one pop out down the hill, most my hunting is within 200yds.

I am a big fan of the 224V so far. Last night, 2am the neighbors texted my wife that they heard coyotes down my way. I had cheap Federal 75gr in my mag and I just grabbed it and headed out. 140yds, coyote eyes looking back at me across the creek in my back yard. I took my time and the 75gr dropped him dead, right behind the shoulder.

I like the cartridge, its accurate in my AR. But like rth1800 said, shot placement is paramount. I think the 224V loaded with light bullets, 60gr, etc, handloaded and tuned would be great. The heavies, 90gr should be pretty lethal, like the Fed Fusion. Havent tried them on coyotes yet but I am sure theyll do the trick too.

Btw, out of curiosity, how does the light 204 bullets fair in the wind? I've never ran a 204, I know its popular for varmints. Just curious about how the light 30gr class bullets play in the wind out longer ranges?

 

[supercorndogs]

Bolt action 22-250, 22 Creed, 22-243. Why hamstring yourself. If you want some hot nasty speed, get it.

 

[bigjake83]

6MM Fat Rat with the 107 SMK or 95 TMK. The 107 SMK .527 BC 2890 FPS out of a 22" Bartlein.

 

[346ci]

I assume your 12.5" barrel is a ARP, if so it would be worth calling H. He has several wildcats that use the 6.8 case.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I assume your 12.5" barrel is a ARP, if so it would be worth calling H. He has several wildcats that use the 6.8 case.

I dont know who ARP is, but Black Hole Weaponry (I think their new name is Columbia River Arms) has quite a few 6.8 variants. Are they the same company?

 

[Baron85]

My 12.5 6.8 is an ARP barrel. Thanks for all the advice so far. I have bolt rifles that fill that roll but interested in building another AR. I think I’m leaning toward the 204. Should be fur friendly and looks to have the best ballistics for my intended range.

 

[Rthur]

204.
Factory ammo that, in my rifle, has proven to be fairly accurate.

R

 

[Codiekfx400]

A 22-284 ar15 ?

 

[Rocketvapor]

I have an upper that’s in need of a new barrel and figured I would build my ultimate coyote rifle. I’m looking for the flattest cartridge to 400-500yds from a 20” barrel that would be suitable for coyotes obviously. I do all my own reloading so don’t mind something like the 6x6.8 but don’t want to fuss with a ton of fireforming steps, cutting down, neck trimming etc of some wildcats.

From my searching it seems the 204 Ruger is my best candidate followed by the 22 nosler. The 6x6.8 is intriguing to me but seems the other 2 outperform it for my particular uses.

This will not be a high volume rifle, strictly for coyote and other varmints.

22-284?

Sounds like the OP has consulted a ballistics calculator already.
Of the easy to put together options, new barrel/bolt on an existing upper the 500yd Flat Shooting options seem to be the 204, 224V, and 22N. All with appropriate twists rates for the likely coyote bullets.
If you consider 500yd velocity, energy, and wind, these seem to be valid responses especially to a reloader.

The light and fast 204 sounds good on paper, and does well with heavy for caliber bullets on pests like yotes. (I watch a lot of youtube )

The 224V with the right twist and bullets light for caliber (52 to 62) I guess 90gr cheap factory rounds are an option here if you don't reload, does well.

The 22 Nosler (the 224V's big bother) will get you ostracized
A 20 inch barrel, handloads, and 60/62 grain bullets in the correct twist will also do the job.

Pick a bullet for each. Use a calculator to run each @ 500 yds using a realistic handload velocity.
Pick a barrel maker and work out the chamber, twist, leade that you want.
It sort of comes down to asking for the correct barrel parameters and hopefully getting what you asked for.
Wait for the barrel.
Do some load development as each barrel has a particular star alignment that needs it's own load.

 

[Hellbender]

I've got a 243 WSSM AR upper that will push a 55 gr BT to over 4000 fps and shoot under 3/4 MOA.

 

[cooper_257]

6mm white oak. It is the 6.8 spc necked down to 6mm. I run 87gr Vmaxes with cfe223 at 3000fps out of a 22" barrel. It smokes coyotes really good. I have taken them out too 800 yards with this combo.

 

[Blutroop]

6mm white oak. It is the 6.8 spc necked down to 6mm. I run 87gr Vmaxes with cfe223 at 3000fps out of a 22" barrel. It smokes coyotes really good. I have taken them out too 800 yards with this combo.

How much holdover do you have at 800 with a 6mm white oak? What is the advantage over 224 Valkyrie?

 

[Rocketvapor]

comparing the 224V with 75gr hpbt BC .395 @ 3000fps (advertised),
the 6mm White Oak with 87gr Vmax BC .400 @ 3000fps (posted above)
and the 22 Nosler with 75 gr hpbt BC .395@ 3000fps (I've done 3040 in a 20" ARP)
I don't see much difference (calculator) in drop, drift, energy @ 800 yards

Energy is higher @ 400 to 500 yds with the 6mm.

If you are a really good shot the .224V or the 22 Nosler with 73 ELDs BC .398 @ 3100 (should be easy to handload that fast) , still mag length in either would be flatter.

Sort of the intent of reloading, not using a cartridge for what it was intended for
Pick a cartridge, pick a bullet, match the twist, go develop a load.

 

[atepointer]

Have any of you 224 guys shot the 75g TMJ out past 500? I remember reading some time ago about all kinds of issues, primers falling out horrible accuracy etc.

 

[346ci]

I dont know who ARP is, but Black Hole Weaponry (I think their new name is Columbia River Arms) has quite a few 6.8 variants. Are they the same company?

AR15 Performance, https://ar15performance.com/home big name in the 6.8 industry and wild cats. I have/have had several rifles with their barrels and all shot great.

 

[cooper_257]

How much holdover do you have at 800 with a 6mm white oak? What is the advantage over 224 Valkyrie?

Drop wise it will be similar to a 224V or a 22 Nosler with a 75 grain bullet. But the 87 grain Vmaxes sure hit coyotes really hard. Not a good caliber or bullet if you are saving pelts.

 

[supercorndogs]

He said 500. That is going to give something like the 53 v max, less drop than something like the 75 a max, at reasonable velocity for the same cartridge.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I have recently just discovered the sierra 60 gr Tipped match king. It has a bc of .323 and should be deadly on coyotes at that distance from a 223 or similar cartridge.

 

[Baron85]

I am wanting to salvage the pelts, my last coyote a couple weeks ago I shot with my 223AI and 69gn TMK was ugly. I really like the idea of the 6mm varients for Knock down power at the further distances but feel it would be hard to avoid pelt damage and I cant seem to get the ballistics calculator to show the 6mm having equal or better ballistics under 500yds than the light fast 204ruger.

Does anyone have first hand experience with the 204 on coyotes in the 400-500yd range?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I'm not a Grendel user, but my shooting Buddy is and he's a serious fan of the chambering.

Limited Offer.

Greg

PS, I liked the offer so much, I just ordered one myself. Been kicking around the idea of the 6.5 Grendel for too long; it's time to get off that dime. If the FGMM 90gr load works, I may skip handloading for this one entirely.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I'm also testing loads for the 260 in a 28" barrel bolt gun.

Using H-4350/Varget and the 95gr V-Max, I'm suspecting velocities in the 3200-3400fps range may be quite possible.

According to the Hornady standard calculator, at 4350ft ASL, where I live, that's a 1000yd supersonic load. Zowie!

Greg

 

[wigwamitus]

Larger Danger Space is what you are looking for ... this compared the 32vmax (.204 ru) to the 87vmax (6mmCM) and a .308 125gr ... those are all real world MVs from shooting buddies ...

If I have time I will redo with 60gr VMAX, though I will have to est. the MV I have no real work VM on the 6vmax which is .224V

 

[wigwamitus]

Ok here is a redo with the 60vmax (.224V) included ... I extrapolated the MV from two guys one of which quote a 16 inch barrel MV and the other a 20 inch barrel MV and recalling that both the 6mmCM and .204RU barrels giving the other MVs were 18 inch. So assuming 18 inch barrel. That said, the .224V 60VMAX looks a low on MV, so if anyone has real world data I can plug in.

Based on the 32 vmax from the .204RU having the highest danger space, I would go with .32VMAX and .204RU for the OPs goal, if he has to go with a generic small frame lower.

Calculations were done with aid of AB BC using G7 BC

 

[wigwamitus]

...
I cant seem to get the ballistics calculator to show the 6mm having equal or better ballistics under 500yds than the light fast 204ruger.
...

See, the above chart. The 87gr does "cross over" the 32gr at around 400yds and from that point the 87gr has a larger danger space. Also out close to 500yds the 32vmax will suffer twice the drift as the 87gr ... but if you are going with a generic small frame receiver set, the 6mmCM is not an option, hence I was just showing it for comparison.

The words "8 inch target" means I'm using 4 inches up or down to calculate the danger space. Saying that from the verticle center of a yote's body, 4 inches up or down is still a "hit" ... if you want to use different numbers, let me know and I can rerun the SS.

 

[Baron85]

Thanks for the above graphs. I will be sticking with small frame and my comment about 6mm was in reference to small frame AR calibers. I know the 6mm is sweet if you have enough case capacity or out further in the small frame AR but seems the under 500 the 204 is going to be hard to beat.

 

[wigwamitus]

... under 500 the 204 is going to be hard to beat ...

Agreed and I thank @rth1800 for cluing ME in to his setups a while back ...

And if you have any questions regarding danger space (or lag time) happy to try to answer ... those concepts come from Bryan Litz' "Applied Ballistics - Long Range Shooting".

 

[Cwyscarver]

my vote is 22 Nosler all the way. 3500fps out of a 55g bullet is moving. Especially out of a AR15. Plus the low recoil combine with watching the impact is super sweet.

 

[Baron85]

Since you revived one of my old threads I guess I could share what I built. I ended up building a 22nxs 20”. This is super sweet. Runs sierra 55 game kings at 3566fps out of an AR15 platform.

Now the bummer part is I bought 100 pieces of 6 Hagar brass to “test” the caliber out and planned on buying 500 if I liked it. By the time I got it built and tested hornady discontinued the brass so I really haven’t used the rifle much since I’m afraid to loose my brass or wear it out.

On a positive I am building a 16” 22br as the newest coyote getter.

 

[hlee]

Since you revived one of my old threads I guess I could share what I built. I ended up building a 22nxs 20”. This is super sweet. Runs sierra 55 game kings at 3566fps out of an AR15 platform.

Now the bummer part is I bought 100 pieces of 6 Hagar brass to “test” the caliber out and planned on buying 500 if I liked it. By the time I got it built and tested hornady discontinued the brass so I really haven’t used the rifle much since I’m afraid to loose my brass or wear it out.

On a positive I am building a 16” 22br as the newest coyote getter.

May not be quite as hot, but the 22 arc might be just the ticket. A 1 step neck sizing operation gets you from 6.5 Grendel to 22 arc. Factory ammo should be available soon.

 

[Cwyscarver]

I think it’s great there are so many options. Here’s my Wilson Combat 22 Nosler.

You want believe it I’m sitting in my blind and 2 coyotes just stepped out while I’m writing this. One left

https://streamvisioncloud.com/files/public/1eed8472-77ae-6c70-b863-71c1b55dbb20

 

[xsn10s]

22 ARC with the new 62 ELD VT.

 

[Kickin45]

If it hasn’t already been said, 223AI

 

[bmash]

IF you decide on a 20 cal (204) consider a 20 Practical. I have a 204R and love it, BUT no Lapua brass, and now I can’t find Norma brass. I wish I had gone with 20 Practical which is a necked down 223.

 

[Cwyscarver]

I have a Dakota Tactical 20 and love it but Lapua stopped making the brass. Those 20’s are super fun. I also have a 20 Vartarg

 

[TheHorta]

.50 BMG using MK211 rounds.

Stop being a pussy.

 

[LRRPF52]

25 WSSM (3600fps with a 75gr V-MAX from a 22” pipe)
.223 WSSM (3700fps with a 60gr)
.243 WSSM (3700fps with 70gr)


204 Ruger (3800fps, 28” drop, but wind drift sucks at 25” at 500yds with 40gr V-MAX)

22 ARC with 62gr ELD-VT
22 Nosler
6mm AR/ARC
224 Valkyrie
25-45 Sharps
.223 Remington

The last 6 are all really close, with a spread of 35” to 46” of drop at 500yds.

If there was a 60gr 6.5mm, it would do 3560fps from a 24” Grendel pipe with less chamber pressure than any of the above.

 

[supercorndogs]

500y probably isn't a concern when talking about the flattest shooting coyote round. It's about stretching that pbr zero it's about a longer point and shoot range.