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Fly Shit from Pepper

CSGambill

CSGambill

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Mar 13, 2013
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Everyone has those "Oh shit, what the fuck" moments... I have no clue how it happened (probably the dog's fault), but I got a can of H1000 powder mixed with RL-15. No good. Annoying in normal times, but with prices > $100 lb I was motivated to fix the problem and not just toss the powder.

Both powders are extruded and cylindrical. Channeling some biology research I did about 20 years ago separating microscopic charcoal particles from lake bed core samples (mud), picked up my handy Starrett micrometer and started measuring. The diameter of H1000 ranges from 0.046" - 0.049" and RL-15 is about 0.032".

In short a 1mm / 0.039" sieve works like a charm to separate the two powders.

20210313_113935.jpg
 
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^this.

I’d consider some extremely light loads if you do go through with it. At best, you’re gonna have some inconsistent velocities.

And actually, now that I think of it...please load, test, and chrono it. This could actually be a good experiment.* Can’t be any worse than using someone else’s reloads...or hell, any factory-loaded Remington ammo in the year or so before they went tits up for that matter; some of the dirtiest and most inconsistent ammo I’ve ever shot.













*as long as we’re talking about loading the rounds into your firearms...not mine. LOL.
 
I’m not so far along into reloading so bear with me, I’m just asking questions. How big of a difference is there between the two powders? It doesn’t sound like they will mix a whole lot the way they’re being separated. If there is even a 10% mixing between the two(hypothetical) how would that affect burn rates and any affected ammo?
 
The D said:
I’m not so far along into reloading so bear with me, I’m just asking questions. How big of a difference is there between the two powders? It doesn’t sound like they will mix a whole lot the way they’re being separated. If there is even a 10% mixing between the two(hypothetical) how would that affect burn rates and any affected ammo?
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No one knows. No one tests those kinds of things. There is a reason that powder manufacturers warn not to do what it is that you are contemplating. Lay all that powder out in a long strip somewhere where it won't damage anything and light it off. Get rid of it.

Don't become one of those guys that will end up saying "I wish I wouldn't have done that". No one here wants to see you get hurt, or even run the risk of it.
 
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Probably a perfect mix for a 6.5 creed. 😁

Hodgdon and Reloader powders also have different color hues under different light. My Hodgdons looks green and RLs are more blue gray. Pour them on a black cloth and see.
 
Threadcutter308 said:
No one knows. No one tests those kinds of things. There is a reason that powder manufacturers warn not to do what it is that you are contemplating. Lay all that powder out in a long strip somewhere where it won't damage anything and light it off. Get rid of it.

Don't become one of those guys that will end up saying "I wish I wouldn't have done that". No one here wants to see you get hurt, or even run the risk of it.
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I’m not doing anything, I’m asking about the op’s situation. But back to the first question I asked. How different are the burn rates of the two powders?
 
Threadcutter308 said:
No one knows. No one tests those kinds of things. There is a reason that powder manufacturers warn not to do what it is that you are contemplating. Lay all that powder out in a long strip somewhere where it won't damage anything and light it off. Get rid of it.

Don't become one of those guys that will end up saying "I wish I wouldn't have done that". No one here wants to see you get hurt, or even run the risk of it.
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I tested this inadvertently. It's how I discovered my little snafu. I switched bullet brands for my .338 this summer and all of a sudden I was getting serious scary over pressure. Thought it was the bullets. Dropped my charge way the hell down to like 82 grains and was still until eeing speeds of up to 3000 fps (250 gr Bergers). Also had horrible inconsistency.

I stopped shooting for a while until I could figure the issue out. Thought I may have been using too tight a neck bushing, or wasn't seating the bullets deep enough and jamming them into the lands (I was). Pulled a bullet from one of my loads, just to measure the charge, and immediately realized my major fuck up.

The two powders look quite different. Anyway, after 3 siftings, here are the separated powders. RL-15 on the left, H1000 on the right. Live (luckily) and learn.


20210313_131306~01.jpg
 
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Hairball said:
Not close at all. RL-15 is 121 out of 178 and H1000 is 169 out of 178. The higher number, the slower the burn
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Duly noted, thanks. Note to self; don’t reload .223 and 300 Norma at the same time
 
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People and ammo company’s have been blending powder for years, I’m not saying everyone should do it, but it ain’t anything new.
 
Too be honest, starting at very low loads and working up, there isn't much danger. Kind of a waste of time, because you couldn't use any data you might have had on previous loads and by the time you find a working load, you'll have used up those powders.
 
Know a guy who swapped varget for retumbo in a .30 ultra magnum. Shot it twice even. Luckily it was in a very heavy duty action or he might not have a hand or face.
I hate having a ton of calibers and different powders. So i streamlined. Even if i picked a different caliber today, it would run the same pros and powder and primers as i use now. But I don’t even really want a second caliber until this barrel is burned out and then i will spin up another in a little more hot rod, but still short barrel. Keeps it simple, cause im stupid.
 
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Holy bat shit fat man! Did he have to beat the bolt open with a hammer?
 
Threadcutter308 said:
No one knows. No one tests those kinds of things. There is a reason that powder manufacturers warn not to do what it is that you are contemplating. Lay all that powder out in a long strip somewhere where it won't damage anything and light it off. Get rid of it.

Don't become one of those guys that will end up saying "I wish I wouldn't have done that". No one here wants to see you get hurt, or even run the risk of it.
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C'mon man, we wouldn't have Reece's peanut butter cups if no one took that chance!
 
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Looks like a pretty legit sifting job, from where I'm sitting. That said I would only use it for light loads to form brass or foul a barrel. Good chance there are broken pieces and even if it ends up being safe you'll likely get fairly inconsistent SD. It'll get used up over time, no reason to push it or waste other components, that aren't cheap, on something that isn't likely repeatable. It could have other uses as well.....
 
Calling shenanigans on this one.......one does not simply "mix up" powders.


1-Only 1 powder should be on the bench whilst loading. (We all know the reason for this is so that when a hot ash/red eye from the cigarette dangling from from your filthy mouth falls into the powder, you lose only 1 pound..possibly less..)

B-How dare you blame the dog!? Shame on you!

Tercero- If you did indeed use those so called "sifter" doo hickeys...they would have grounding straps.....

Forth- (Yes, I spelled that the same way another member spelled "fourth" after accusing me of rambling on like Joe Biden...and not making any sense...:rolleyes:...as I recall, by his own admission he stands only 5'6"...where was I...) the sieve thing reminds me of this song....

 
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Threadcutter308 said:
No one knows. No one tests those kinds of things. There is a reason that powder manufacturers warn not to do what it is that you are contemplating. Lay all that powder out in a long strip somewhere where it won't damage anything and light it off. Get rid of it.

Don't become one of those guys that will end up saying "I wish I wouldn't have done that". No one here wants to see you get hurt, or even run the risk of it.
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I bet your real name is Kevin Kenneth Killjoy. . .
 
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Better you than me. I can't think of any body parts or even guns I'd give up to save $100. I'd pour it in my scrap/unknown powder jug.
 
I honestly don't get how it's even possible for powders to get mixed on accident. I don't reload, but used to make my own black powder and other pyrotechnic compositions and never once were my powders mixed on accident.
 
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I've got a run at Pikes Peak tomorrow but I got some water mixed in my brake fluid. That stuff is so darn expensive I'm just going to filter it through a paper towel and I'm positive that will work.

Seriously though just not a good idea. I applaud the ingenuity and effort but too risky.
 
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Well, one thing I noticed in my early years of reloading. Not all the grains of extruded cylindrical powder are the same size. You could get some of that "larger" powder through the filter, if any of the cylinders are broken.
I'm in the "throw it out " camp. Or video your first test fire.
 
I'd put it on the lawn for fertilizer...

That said, when I was young and poor and made this mistake... Poured a whole RCBS powder measure worth of (I think it was with Unique) into a half-can of 2400... Well shit.

I mixed the two powers up really well and then loaded test rounds with really light charge. Worked my way up in .357 loads 1 grain at a time until recoil and primer flattening showed pressure. Then backed off some. I got a few hundred plinker pistol rounds out of it. Nothing bad seemed to happen. I was shooting IPS at the time, so was all short range and just had to knock plates.

BUT... it could have been a disaster in hindsight. I'd never do it again! BTW, I think the powder was $8 a can. But I was in High School and the minimum wage was $3.35 an hour. So that was three hours work after taxes!

Sirhr
 
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Not blended powder related but a double charge story. I was shooting an IPSC match in the 90's and a shooter in front of me was running a stage when all of a sudden he got a squib. The RO was on top of things and yelled WHOA! before he shot the next target.

He dropped out and went to a practice range and finished shooting the mag. Kaboom! He found the double charge in the next mag. I think it blew his grip panels off his 1911.
 
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CSGambill said:
Everyone has those "Oh shit, what the fuck" moments... I have no clue how it happened (probably the dog's fault), but I got a can of H1000 powder mixed with RL-15. No good. Annoying in normal times, but with prices > $100 lb I was motivated to fix the problem and not just toss the powder.

Both powders are extruded and cylindrical. Channeling some biology research I did about 20 years ago separating microscopic charcoal particles from lake bed core samples (mud), picked up my handy Starrett micrometer and started measuring. The diameter of H1000 ranges from 0.046" - 0.049" and RL-15 is about 0.032".

In short a 1mm / 0.039" sieve works like a charm to separate the two powders.

View attachment 7580449
Click to expand...
You need to review your loading procedures to discover how this happened and how to prevent it from happening again.
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
I'd put it on the lawn for fertilizer...

That said, when I was young and poor and made this mistake... Poured a whole RCBS powder measure worth of (I think it was with Unique) into a half-can of 2400... Well shit.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure this is how I got them mixed. Probably emptied the RL-15 into the H1000 can.

I was "motivated" to see if I could separate the powders, not desperate. The the two powders look different enough that you can see nothing is left mixed. If sifting hadn't worked as well as it I would have just dumped the lot.

Since I've already shot the mixed stuff I have zero concerns about using the separated stuff.

If I do blow myself up, I'll tell my wife to post the obit here for a good laugh.
 
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