For the Historical Minded

[cornhusker86]

Please keep this thread free of the kind of rhetoric that closed the other one. I am a fan of history and am deeply saddened by todays events. Just thought some of you boys may be interested;

https://notredamecathedralparis.com/history/

 

[Maggot]

Beautiful.

If you ever get the opportunity, visit the National Cathedral in DC. Built from Indiana limestone, because of the cost its likely to be the last Gothic cathedral ever built.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Was just about to post this question when the other got locked.
I had a chance to visit Europe last year on a castles and cathedrals tour. Did not got to France. Lots and lots of stone is what I saw.

So my question is, does anyone have any idea how it was built? Where did the 52 acres of timber go? Even the picture above shows a mostly stone building I think.

Just wondering what was flamable? Roof maybe?

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Was just about to post this question when the other got locked.
I had a chance to visit Europe last year on a castles and cathedrals tour. Did not got to France. Lots and lots of stone is what I saw.

So my question is, does anyone have any idea how it was built? Where did the 52 acres of timber go? Even the picture above shows a mostly stone building I think.

Just wondering what was flamable? Roof maybe?

Roof, internal structures like walls, floors, stairs, furniture and such. The actual building techniques used and learned during the middle ages is amazing and along with metal working, stone working/masonary, farming so on and so forth one will quickly learn that that time period was not so dark after all.

 

[Maggot]

Was just about to post this question when the other got locked.
I had a chance to visit Europe last year on a castles and cathedrals tour. Did not got to France. Lots and lots of stone is what I saw.

So my question is, does anyone have any idea how it was built? Where did the 52 acres of timber go? Even the picture above shows a mostly stone building I think.

Just wondering what was flamable? Roof maybe?

Yes, a lot of the wood support is done in timbers. the photo below is not ND but similar.

 

[cornhusker86]

Was just about to post this question when the other got locked.
I had a chance to visit Europe last year on a castles and cathedrals tour. Did not got to France. Lots and lots of stone is what I saw.

So my question is, does anyone have any idea how it was built? Where did the 52 acres of timber go? Even the picture above shows a mostly stone building I think.

Just wondering what was flamable? Roof maybe?

It would appear that a great deal was flammable ;

 

[Maggot]

Not to take away from the OP but our Nationa cathedral is great as well. Sits on a hill overlooking DC. A photo and link below, check out the Rose window. In the eighties, when they were finishing it up I tried to get on as a stonemason but wasnt in the union. Got an offer to do some stone gargoyle carving but was too hardheaded and turned that down. I regret it to this day.

Washington National Cathedral - Official Site
cathedral.org

 

[Redmanss]

The stone exterior walls are about all that is not flammable. Everything else from the doors to the buttresses are wood. It’s an architectural marvel, built by incredibly skilled tradesmen who labored their entire life the same as generations both before and after them did, all to build that one cathedral. Of all the classes I took in college, the one that interested me most was an intro to architecture, and a good focus of that was on the gothic era. The new methods of high arching beams and external support structuring developed then were amazingly innovative, as well as they are an incredible sight to behold. We have the science and materials to rebuild it, but the skill sets required died out centuries ago.

It’s loss is saddening, even to me who isn’t religious. I stared at it for hours just trying to comprehend how it was built over 850 years ago.

There’s some similar doumos across France, Germany and Italy that also apply the same design fundamentals, Regensberg, Germany and Florence, Italy come to mind as two I’ve visited, but not even the cathedrals in Milan, Nuremberg or Venice came close to the amazement of Notre Dame for me.

 

[cornhusker86]

When I was serving in Germany, I had the opportunity to visit Nuremberg and see some of the medieval churches such as; [ not my pics ]

Frauenkirche Church

St. Sebaldus;

 

[Maxduty]

Meh, it's been rebuilt before, they can do it again. If I were their PM, I'd have the stones from every mosque in France used.

 

[ZiaHunter]

Hopefully they will rebuild it but the challenge will be finding the craftsmen/artisans who possess the skills to duplicate the original. Many of the trades are lost.

 

[Loonhunter]

Beautiful.

If you ever get the opportunity, visit the National Cathedral in DC. Built from Indiana limestone, because of the cost its likely to be the last Gothic cathedral ever built.

It is beautiful. If you take your kids (or if you’re a kid at heart) look for the gargoyle that is Darth Vader.

 

[Strykervet]

Was just about to post this question when the other got locked.
I had a chance to visit Europe last year on a castles and cathedrals tour. Did not got to France. Lots and lots of stone is what I saw.

So my question is, does anyone have any idea how it was built? Where did the 52 acres of timber go? Even the picture above shows a mostly stone building I think.

Just wondering what was flamable? Roof maybe?

There was a lot of structure that went into the building process. Scaffolding and such. The walls are held up with flying buttresses in order to keep 'em thin; this likely required a lot of rigging to make happen. The roof is usually wood with huge one piece timber frames and lined with lead. The attic is where most fires start in these old buildings. There were also originally small buildings and workshops that would have been in the vicinity. Don't forget firewood used in construction. So 52 acres of trees doesn't surprise me at all. Also, the roof is HUGE! And made with only the best.

I don't have 'em on the computer, but I drew pictures of Reims and I have pictures of Oudkerk in Amsterdam. It's not nearly as big as these cathedrals but it's much older and predates the grand flying buttress as used in the middle ages. Nothing like wandering around these old buildings all alone, when nobody else is in there. It's awesome. Nothing like getting a free one on one organ concert too --on the organ Mozart played as a child. Lucky to be there right before Christmas while the guy was practicing.

A cool book to read that revolves around building a cathedral is "Pillars of the Earth" by Ken Follet. It's a really good book and he researched it pretty well. In it, they build a church similar to this one with the flying buttresses and mention in a little detail how it was done. There's also a part in the book with a fire in the attic.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

There is one good thing that I hope will come out of it... and given all the money being pledged, rebuilding is not in doubt.

This will give a generation or two of craftsmen a chance to thrive. Stonemasons, timber framers, stained glass, wood carvers, joiners... you name it. This place will not get rebuilt with 3D printers or CNC machines. It will get rebuilt by men (and soon apprentices, journeymen, and kids) who will now have an opportunity to work with their hands... for a lifetime.

Wonder how many lost techniques will be revived? How many people will learn to be Masters at restoration and conservation. How will these skills save thousands of other treasures around the world!

I had the same reaction to the steeple falling that I had watching the towers fall on 911. A loss for the entire world. But this morning, I had the thought that this will be an opportunity not only to come together as a 'planet' for the restoration. But to help a generation of people, probably from all over the world, to re-learn lost arts that are going to be needed to bring this building back.

Think about the job satisfaction of growing to become a master carver... vs. being just another bond trader or latte-server.

Opportunity, indeed.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Paintings depicting the construction of medieval cathedrals.

They were built on human muscle alone. Animals were only used to transport the materials and workers to the site. All of the mixing, cutting, forming, and masonry were done by hand. The tallest spire on the Notre Dame is 300 feet high. The towers are 250 feet, and the entire body of the cathedral stands at 180 feet. Absolute marvels of engineering during a time where little to no mechanical aids were available. The Notre Dame was completed in 1345, two years before the outbreak of the Black Death. Only a few years before that was the treadmill crane invented, making it a lot easier to lift heavy objects to great heights. The workers on the Notre Dame only got to take advantage of this new, innovative piece of equipment for a fraction of the 200 years that the building was actually under construction.

You do not have to be religious to respect and recognize this raw and extraordinary example of art, culture, and heritage during a time when living conditions were brutish not just for the common folk, but for kings and clerics as well.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Thanks for starting this thread, Cornhusker... needed a bit of historic beauty and positivity this morning!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[2ndamendfan]

Seeing pictures this morning, there is alot more left standing than I expected.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

You do not have to be religious to respect and recognize this raw and extraordinary example of art, culture, and heritage during a time when living conditions were brutish.

There are several interesting documentaries, based on some new research, that the 'dark' ages were not nearly as 'dark' as we were taught. Yes, not a lot of history was written down, but craftsmanship and scholarship, often in the monasteries, was alive and well. Look at the workmanship that is showing up in the Viking burials or some of the hoardes of gold and jewelry that are turning up more and more thanks to new archaeology techniques. And they are showing that there was remarkable skill and workmanship prevalent across Europe. Just not much getting written down.

Brutish, yes. No good medicine. Bubonic Plague(s). Despotic rulers. Live expectancy in the 30's - 40's. The slightest infection would kill you. But even in the rubble that was post Rome... there were lights of human endeavor.

Notre Dame is one of the monuments to that human spirit!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Maggot]

An interesting article and video on the cathedral and how it was in severe disrepair before the fire. Apparently its having much the same problem that the Coliseum in Rome and Parthenon in Athens are: Toxic fumes from auto traffic dissolving the masonry work. Much of it was made from limestone because it is softer and easier to work than granite, but particularly susceptible to the fumes.

https://weather.com/news/news/2019-04-15-paris-notre-dame-centuries-of-damage-renovation-fire

 

[Strykervet]

The stone exterior walls are about all that is not flammable. Everything else from the doors to the buttresses are wood. It’s an architectural marvel, built by incredibly skilled tradesmen who labored their entire life the same as generations both before and after them did, all to build that one cathedral. Of all the classes I took in college, the one that interested me most was an intro to architecture, and a good focus of that was on the gothic era. The new methods of high arching beams and external support structuring developed then were amazingly innovative, as well as they are an incredible sight to behold. We have the science and materials to rebuild it, but the skill sets required died out centuries ago.

It’s loss is saddening, even to me who isn’t religious. I stared at it for hours just trying to comprehend how it was built over 850 years ago.

There’s some similar doumos across France, Germany and Italy that also apply the same design fundamentals, Regensberg, Germany and Florence, Italy come to mind as two I’ve visited, but not even the cathedrals in Milan, Nuremberg or Venice came close to the amazement of Notre Dame for me.

The flying buttress is stone but starts out as wood. It takes the weight of the wall and directs it downward instead of out.

I didn't get to travel all of Europe, but I stayed for a couple weeks in Amsterdam and still didn't see everything I went after. My favorite painters are mostly Dutch and I spent whole days in certain places, like this church. All the potheads thought I was funny to travel there and spend all my time in old churches and museums. I actually stayed in a hostel in the Red Light District; it's the only way to go! Glad I did because it gave me more money and I spent almost zero time there except to sleep, and I was so tired I could have slept on a rock outside for all it mattered at the end of a day.

So I'd argue the skill is there, just not cheap nor abundant. It never was abundant really but there are people in Europe whose job is to maintain this stuff in the original context. Restorers. I studied oil painting and can make all my own materials just like they did.

Yeah, I forgot about all the wood INSIDE the church...

What you can't see is the detail in this wood. The piece in the middle is actually a very important piece by a Renaissance woodcarver and in Dutch is says "In the year 16xx we threw out the catholics and other degenerates", essentially, in Latin. When it was a cathedral, they used to let the homeless sleep on the floors. All those seats are where the rich greedbags of Amsterdam sat. They have name plates and each one is carved intricately different from the other. I remember this one with pig heads...

Note the relief in the stone... Each one of those rectangles is a grave and the ones with the most embellishment are those of Rembrandt, William of Orange, etc. Not sure THEY were specifically buried in this one, I think William of Orange was but he's inside the wall somewhere IIRC. Walls are so think here that there are hidden passages and small rooms I found inside them. Like I said, I got to explore it all alone, it's awesome there right before Christmas when nobody is around.

Here's another from the other side. The floors are usually totally empty and it's used a lot for exhibiting art. It wasn't NEARLY this well lit when I was there in NOV/DEC 2004. There are no interior electrical lights. I wanna say the ceiling has an image of the stars and was in blue but maybe I'm thinking of the New Church near Anne Frank's house. Anyway, you see the extensive use of carved wood inside. This church also has a stained glass piece called "The Annunciation" (there's a million works called that but this one is special).

One of the stained glass windows. These are amazing, the detail and craftsmanship is unreal. This thing is huge.

Exhuming graves during restoration.

Same floor, more like it looked when I was there but much darker.

Outside. Yes, it's in the middle of the Red Light District. One wall is actually part of De Wallejte (sp?), "The Wall", and is where you find the nastiest hookers dating back to who knows when. The English Channel is only a fart or two in the wind away from here so it was always full of sailors back when VOC ran everything (Dutch East Indies Corporation, first corporation ever, which did what every corporation does and got so greedy the Queen stepped in). This is where I found the fat black chicks from Aruba with US southern/Dutch accents, and the chick with a dick playing peakaboo at the end of a narrow alley where you couldn't turn around. Trapped!

During day.

I've got a better picture, but this is the organ, my favorite place in there. The sculpture is just unreal. The piece you're looking up at is like a cockpit for the organ player, it's pretty complex. This is where Mozart played when a child, but the actual organ instrument itself was changed or modified in the 1800's or thereabouts. Passacaglia in C Minor is the shit when belted out on this thing in person.

So yeah, lots of wood. And this is a fairly small church as far as big old churches in Europe go.

 

[Strykervet]

There are several interesting documentaries, based on some new research, that the 'dark' ages were not nearly as 'dark' as we were taught. Yes, not a lot of history was written down, but craftsmanship and scholarship, often in the monasteries, was alive and well. Look at the workmanship that is showing up in the Viking burials or some of the hoardes of gold and jewelry that are turning up more and more thanks to new archaeology techniques. And they are showing that there was remarkable skill and workmanship prevalent across Europe. Just not much getting written down.

Brutish, yes. No good medicine. Bubonic Plague(s). Despotic rulers. Live expectancy in the 30's - 40's. The slightest infection would kill you. But even in the rubble that was post Rome... there were lights of human endeavor.

Notre Dame is one of the monuments to that human spirit!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Yep. That church I posted pictures of above, the Oud Kerk, it was actually started in 10xx. I wanna say 1090-ish, around the time of the invasion of England. There's a Roman gate not far from there too. Also, this land was part of the English Channel and was reclaimed. An old Roman gate sits in the middle of the city and used to be on the edge. They were "making new land" even back then. One of the coolest things I saw in my whole time over there was single felt shoe pulled out of a canal. Dated from early 1400's, it looked just like a green felt "Robin Hood" shoe. Things like that really connect you to it.

But in all honesty, the real science and breakthroughs that were happening during the middle ages were happening in muslim lands. Algebra, the first flight of man (kinda) etc.

Believe it or not, when everyone started to "wake up" in the Renaissance, Rome was covered in dirt and debris and only the tops of some of the momuments were visible. I've seen detailed drawings of it. At one point the pyramids were almost buried too. The neo classical revival was inspired in part by a collapsed ceiling in the Nero's "Domus Aurea" or house of gold, and Michelangelo was one of the first to be lowered down to inspect it. Completely preserved, it was missed during the razing of Nero's shit. It rained shortly after and flooded it and exposure ruined that time capsule. But there could be more, his house was literally 1/3rd of all Rome.

I can go on and on about history, don't get me started. Don't take me to a museum unless you're prepared to stay there the rest of the day either. And maybe even come back the next day.

 

[ArmyJerry]

symbolic of whats happening to European culture... dont doubt that the statists started this fire...

 

[FS1]

Ok so a bunch of rich guys say they will pay to rebuild. My question is will it take 200 years or are they on the fast track for a hundred?

 

[Maggot]

The flying buttress is stone but starts out as wood. It takes the weight of the wall and directs it downward instead of out.

I didn't get to travel all of Europe, but I stayed for a couple weeks in Amsterdam and still didn't see everything I went after. My favorite painters are mostly Dutch and I spent whole days in certain places, like this church. All the potheads thought I was funny to travel there and spend all my time in old churches and museums. I actually stayed in a hostel in the Red Light District; it's the only way to go! Glad I did because it gave me more money and I spent almost zero time there except to sleep, and I was so tired I could have slept on a rock outside for all it mattered at the end of a day.

So I'd argue the skill is there, just not cheap nor abundant. It never was abundant really but there are people in Europe whose job is to maintain this stuff in the original context. Restorers. I studied oil painting and can make all my own materials just like they did.

Yeah, I forgot about all the wood INSIDE the church...

View attachment 7062151

What you can't see is the detail in this wood. The piece in the middle is actually a very important piece by a Renaissance woodcarver and in Dutch is says "In the year 16xx we threw out the catholics and other degenerates", essentially, in Latin. When it was a cathedral, they used to let the homeless sleep on the floors. All those seats are where the rich greedbags of Amsterdam sat. They have name plates and each one is carved intricately different from the other. I remember this one with pig heads...

Note the relief in the stone... Each one of those rectangles is a grave and the ones with the most embellishment are those of Rembrandt, William of Orange, etc. Not sure THEY were specifically buried in this one, I think William of Orange was but he's inside the wall somewhere IIRC. Walls are so think here that there are hidden passages and small rooms I found inside them. Like I said, I got to explore it all alone, it's awesome there right before Christmas when nobody is around.

View attachment 7062153

Here's another from the other side. The floors are usually totally empty and it's used a lot for exhibiting art. It wasn't NEARLY this well lit when I was there in NOV/DEC 2004. There are no interior electrical lights. I wanna say the ceiling has an image of the stars and was in blue but maybe I'm thinking of the New Church near Anne Frank's house. Anyway, you see the extensive use of carved wood inside. This church also has a stained glass piece called "The Annunciation" (there's a million works called that but this one is special).

View attachment 7062161

One of the stained glass windows. These are amazing, the detail and craftsmanship is unreal. This thing is huge.

View attachment 7062159

Exhuming graves during restoration.

View attachment 7062160

Same floor, more like it looked when I was there but much darker.

View attachment 7062164

Outside. Yes, it's in the middle of the Red Light District. One wall is actually part of De Wallejte (sp?), "The Wall", and is where you find the nastiest hookers dating back to who knows when. The English Channel is only a fart or two in the wind away from here so it was always full of sailors back when VOC ran everything (Dutch East Indies Corporation, first corporation ever, which did what every corporation does and got so greedy the Queen stepped in). This is where I found the fat black chicks from Aruba with US southern/Dutch accents, and the chick with a dick playing peakaboo at the end of a narrow alley where you couldn't turn around. Trapped!

View attachment 7062169

During day.

View attachment 7062175

I've got a better picture, but this is the organ, my favorite place in there. The sculpture is just unreal. The piece you're looking up at is like a cockpit for the organ player, it's pretty complex. This is where Mozart played when a child, but the actual organ instrument itself was changed or modified in the 1800's or thereabouts. Passacaglia in C Minor is the shit when belted out on this thing in person.

So yeah, lots of wood. And this is a fairly small church as far as big old churches in Europe go.

I have some vinyl recordings of that last organ. Eerily beautiful silvery tone.

 

[Maggot]

Ok so a bunch of rich guys say they will pay to rebuild. My question is will it take 200 years or are they on the fast track for a hundred?

I was in Germany in 1957 or so, only 12 years after the war, and remember seeing very little destruction from WWII. Modern technology allowed them to rebuild quickly and things have come a long way since then. I suspect they will have it restored, better than original in 20 or less. Maybe thats why theyve let in all the Muslims: labor force.

 

[Strykervet]

Ok so a bunch of rich guys say they will pay to rebuild. My question is will it take 200 years or are they on the fast track for a hundred?

Nah, but they will rename it.

"RUAG/Pernod" Catholic Center sounds appropriate these days, yeah?

 

[FS1]

Guaranteed that every fire fighter and person on that site is collecting a souvenir. Maybe just a piece of burned wood. If they let the public anywhere near that place peeps will be grabbing everything and anything they can.

It would be pretty cool to have a BBQ with Notre Dame charcoal. People are like vultures with these things.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I forget what they call the main hall but it is high as it can architecturally go. Art History 101. The evil Masons built it for The Church. A lot of bad blood between the two to this day. I guess the Masons were always behind schedule (at least one generation behind) and over budget.

 

[Strykervet]

I have some vinyl recordings of that last organ. Eerily beautiful silvery tone.

All the best organ music was done a long time ago IMO. Karl Richter, E. Power Biggs, those guys... The thing is that these organs usually have their lowest registers well below human hearing. So you actually FEEL these things playing.

 

[Maggot]

I forget what they call the main hall but it is high as it can architecturally go. Art History 101. The evil Masons built it for The Church. A lot of bad blood between the two to this day. I guess the Masons were always behind schedule (at least one generation behind) and over budget.

Thats called the 'Nave'.

Nave | Define Nave at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com/browse/nave

 

[Nik H]

I had the pleasure of visiting it on two occasions...unbelievable loss.

At least the Gargoyles were removed some time ago so they are saved. Heard that they got a lot out.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Stryker... re your comments on the Muslim lands and scholarship... absolutely right on! And don't forget China. And Mexico/Central America. Some thriving cultures there!

Europe had a bad time thanks to the collapse of Rome, then the plagues. But the depopulation had a positive effect... land came back and food supply out-stripped population (for a change.) Things were good for growth and though not much was getting recorded. Dark to history, but not culture!

The loss of Notre Dame is terrible. But it will have a net positive effect in some other areas.

Good thread!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[jbailey]

I read somewhere that France has a shortage of mature oak stands that could provide the necessary size and strength to rebuild the roof and I was thinking that we, the United States, should step forward and offer some of our white and live oak stands... we have a 1000 less years of deforestation than Europe and we have some of the best oak stands anywhere. I would be the first to offer them the choice of any white oak(s) on my farm and I have some big, first growth trees. These trees are priceless but when they are turned into such beauty, cutting them down is worthwhile.

And this is a great picture of a timber-framed roof... this is Westminster Hall in London. Note those timbers are probably 1000 years old, and dry as a bone, very at risk to fire. That is some real wood-working right there guys...

 

[vh20]

Noble thought, but we already decimated our old growth Sitka Spruce and Douglas Fir trying to save Europe once before. Now we need it but it is hard to come by.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Be a hell of a thing if it were redone in a more modern style with hemp and bamboo, eh?

I don't care what they do, except as long as they keep the original, 'gothic' design and not 'modernize' that too. I was simply referring to building material, not shape/design.

 

[ArmyJerry]

build it out of steel, or wrought iron

 

[cornhusker86]

I've heard people suggest a steel and stained glass roof and ceiling. I would be opposed to that. Because of the significance of the building, it should be restored as closely as possible. I would however, add all the modern fire suppression systems.

 

[cornhusker86]

Some pics of the damage;

 

[Maggot]

Noble thought, but we already decimated our old growth Sitka Spruce and Douglas Fir trying to save Europe once before. Now we need it but it is hard to come by.

Thats for sure,there isnt much old growth left. When I was logging I cut some old growth Oak and Hickory, magnificent trees. Cut some old growth Doug Fir and Yellow Pine up in Montana. What it took Europe centuries to do with hand saws we've done in a hundred with chainsaws. When I was a kid you could buy rough cut pine and oak for about the same price..and it was good pine. Today you can get joined oak boards for a small fortune and the pine isnt worth taking home.

Ive read that the Canukians still have a lot left. Invasion?

Or we could mine the pacific ocean's 1000 mile swirling plastic dump and make the beams from recycled plastic. Use a grain texture and paint them brown to look like wood...win/win.

 

[Ravenworks]

I just retired from the operating engineers, they'll set up 3 or 4 tower cranes and get to building.
I would wager they already have working architectural prints for every square inch of the building.
Spooling up to start building will take the longest, I'd say they'll have it under roof in a year.

 

[Loonhunter]

I saw pictures of the pipe organs pipes. Those are/were made out of lead. Wonder if
they’re a melted puddle now.

 

[Loonhunter]

This is inspiring;

Four years ago, an art historian used lasers to digitally map Notre Dame Cathedral. His work could help save it

Although parts of Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral now lie in ruins, people can still experience what most of its nooks and crannies looked like in remarkable detail -- thanks to an American art historian.

www.cnn.com

 

[jbailey]

Thats for sure,there isnt much old growth left. When I was logging I cut some old growth Oak and Hickory, magnificent trees. Cut some old growth Doug Fir and Yellow Pine up in Montana. What it took Europe centuries to do with hand saws we've done in a hundred with chainsaws. When I was a kid you could buy rough cut pine and oak for about the same price..and it was good pine. Today you can get joined oak boards for a small fortune and the pine isnt worth taking home.

Ive read that the Canukians still have a lot left. Invasion?

Or we could mine the pacific ocean's 1000 mile swirling plastic dump and make the beams from recycled plastic. Use a grain texture and paint them brown to look like wood...win/win.

Certainly we could divert some of our exports to the Chinese veneer factories (God I hate those machines) and instead send some over for this project. As I understand it, Chinese buy up every hardwood saw log they can, ship it as a log (hence skipping our mills), turn it into veneer and then import it back into the US as some a cheap piece of furniture, marked up 100x. The French gave us the Statue of Liberty and bleed with us in countless wars (including the GWOT), certainly we could find 500 or so white oaks that are knot free for 50ft and 20" at the narrow end? I'm ready to contribute a dozen or so.

 

[Maggot]

Certainly we could divert some of our exports to the Chinese veneer factories (God I hate those machines) and instead send some over for this project. As I understand it, Chinese buy up every hardwood saw log they can, ship it as a log (hence skipping our mills), turn it into veneer and then import it back into the US as some a cheap piece of furniture, marked up 100x. The French gave us the Statue of Liberty and bleed with us in countless wars (including the GWOT), certainly we could find 500 or so white oaks that are knot free for 50ft and 20" at the narrow end? I'm ready to contribute a dozen or so.

It used to go to Germany but the Asians out bid them because they have free labor.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Ressurecting this necro thread on purpose, because I've been following the restoration of Notre Dame... It is one of the most amazing restorations one can imagine.

Right now, there is a NOVA episode on PBS detailing the restoration so far and it is really pretty remarkable what they are accomplishing.

They managed to avoid a 'woke' restoration and hae gone with an exact restoration of the building, using old technology.

It is a remarkable process and I am really blown away by what they are doing. When it's finished, it is going to be a totally different building. The cleaning alone is going to make the place just amazing. The 'shot in the arm' that this is giving to craft careers is great. The satisfaction one gets from the field is something that should be attracting some of today's most talented youth!

Anyone who has good documentaries, videos or articles... post them up. Restoring some old gun or cannon is enough work. The skill and organzation (and cost) of this restoration is just mind-blowing!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[oneshot86]

I'm very happy to hear that. Very happy to hear it

 

[Rthur]

1000 year plus wood is much harder to ignite.
I'll wager the truth was hidden.
Glad to see it being rebuilt.

R

 

[Im2bent]