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? for the lawyers here...

jvencius

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Jul 30, 2010
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In general, are verbal contracts/handshake agreements actionable in court? My roommate just got dismissed from the nursing program we're both in for being "unprepared" for clinicals and when he emailed me earlier today he pretty much said "too bad about my 1/2 of the rent and utilities--I'm leaving and can't pay you for them." Though I don't want to have to do it (nor do I have the funds to hire an attorney), could I take him to small claims court for the ~$2,600 I'll have to come up with to cover his half of the rent/electric bill until the lease runs out? We don't have separate leases (the lease only says that we will both be occupying our apartment from 7/13/11-9/28/12) or a signed/notarized agreement to split everything 50/50, just the aforementioned handshake agreement, so I'm probably up Shit Creek but just want to be aware of my options.

ETA: The apartment in question is in Vegas (Henderson, actually, but close enough...)
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

It all depends on the laws of your state. I have asked attorneys in both Arkansas and Oklahoma about this and in both those states the answer was verbal agreements are considered legal contracts. You might try searching the internet for cases like yours in your state.
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Verbal Agreements are binding in business. Seek counsel then go after him in Small Claims where the burden of proof is less than 'real court' </div></div>

That depends on the State and there are a ass ton of factors that come into play including third party witnesses at arms length etc. Any good Attorney will tell you "When in question... Get it in Writing!"
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jvencius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In general, are verbal contracts/handshake agreements actionable in court? My roommate just got dismissed from the nursing program we're both in for being "unprepared" for clinicals and when he emailed me earlier today he pretty much said "too bad about my 1/2 of the rent and utilities--I'm leaving and can't pay you for them." Though I don't want to have to do it (nor do I have the funds to hire an attorney), could I take him to small claims court for the ~$2,600 I'll have to come up with to cover his half of the rent/electric bill until the lease runs out? We don't have separate leases (the lease only says that we will both be occupying our apartment from 7/13/11-9/28/12) or a signed/notarized agreement to split everything 50/50, just the aforementioned handshake agreement, so I'm probably up Shit Creek but just want to be aware of my options.

ETA: The apartment in question is in Vegas (Henderson, actually, but close enough...) </div></div>

If he's on the lease then you would likely have a case. He's a party to the lease and contractually obligated to pay an equal portion thereof or at least implied. Him choosing to vacate the property prior to the expiration of the lease is defaulting on the lease itself as he's an equal party and he could be held accountable for damages. Again, you should consult an Attorney for a couple hundred prior just to get direction and confirmation. In WA they don't allow you to use an Attorney in small claims which may be the case in Nevada, but you can still consult.

Add: Utilities could get complicated though. If you didn't put the Utility Bills under both your names then you could end up shit out of luck. The hard part in court is assessing percentages of use, previous arrangements, etc.

It doesn't matter what State you're in either, when it comes to enforcing a "Verbal Agreement" there still has to typically be a 3rd party at arms length witness. Without one it's your word verses his, unless he was stupid enough to openly admit in court to previous agreements not in writing.
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

darn, i thought it was a bash a lawyer thread
smile.gif
 
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I have sued several in small claims. You have to have them served
The whole process will cost ~$150

One was a uninsured driver who totaled my car. Never got a dime out of him then he died. They even had an arrest warrent out for him. He lived in public housing and the cops couldn't find him...

Been to SCC three times each time I lost money because I never got a dime out of any of them and lost a day of work going to court.

My advice find a roommate fast
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Add: Utilities could get complicated though. If you didn't put the Utility Bills under both your names then you could end up shit out of luck. The hard part in court is assessing percentages of use, previous arrangements, etc.
</div></div>

The electricity bill (only separate utility we have) is in my name only so I'm fine with eating that one--at worst it'll only amount to $150 or so and that's not enough to get wound up about...
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jvencius</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Add: Utilities could get complicated though. If you didn't put the Utility Bills under both your names then you could end up shit out of luck. The hard part in court is assessing percentages of use, previous arrangements, etc.
</div></div>

The electricity bill (only separate utility we have) is in my name only so I'm fine with eating that one--at worst it'll only amount to $150 or so and that's not enough to get wound up about... </div></div>

If you go to small claims I'd add it in still. The worst that could happen is the Judge says no and removes it from the total settlement...
 
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Well, I'm not an attorney but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. First, probably the best solution is for you to find another roomate, fast. The next best option is to advise your landlord and attempt to break the lease and move, the landlord might be understanding and let you walk. If I understand you correctly, you are both on the lease. If so, you don't have a claim against him.....your landlord will if he does not pay although your lease probably does not segregate the rental payment (meaning your are both either/or responsible.) You could take him to small claims court regarding a verbal agreement, and if you prevail you then have to collect.......that's a painstaking process in itself because he probably won't show and the court won't collect for you (pretty much, anyway.) Another option is to advise the landlord, open a escrow account and place your portion of the rent there while the landlord then proceeds with collection/eviction against both of you. You'll then be allowed to plead your case at an eviction hearing and the court could direct the landlord to collect relieving you of his portion of the rent. These deals suck, good luck.
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">darn, i thought it was a bash a lawyer thread
smile.gif
</div></div>

Aint it a bitch when you need one?
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: leagle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">darn, i thought it was a bash a lawyer thread
smile.gif
</div></div>Aint it a bitch when you need one? </div></div>Or when you need two.
laugh.gif
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

With the usual disclaimer about internet advice, I can't tell you about Vegas in particular but generally, under the circumstances that you describe, not having the agreement in writing shouldn't be a problem. The concept that some contracts must be in writing is commonly known as the "Statute of Frauds". That is, some contracts must be in writing to be enforceable (contracts for the conveyance of an interest in real property, contracts that will take more than a year to complete etc.) Under the facts that you have given, the lease with both names and the history of the agreement (i.e. we've lived here for 5 months and he paid 1/2 the rent and utilities in all the other months) should be evidence enough to prove the existence of an agreement.
Having said that, anyone can sue anyone else. The problem is getting paid when you win. You can get a judgement against him and then chase him all over hell to collect it. Plan "A" is get another roomate asap (everything in writing) and Plan "B" is sue the deadbeat for any difference. Maybe you get paid, maybe you don't. At the very least the unpaid judgement shows up on his credit report and bites him in the butt every time he trys to borrow money (banks also check your credit history before they'll let you open a checking account). With any luck he'll remember you, even when he doesn't remember anymore how much he owed you.
 
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Most courthouses have a person that works the small claims area that will help you with filing paperwork and such. Also how much additional info you may need. Did anyone hear the agreement? Or at any time have him talk about the agreement that would go to small claims with you?
 
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Not sure what's the law in NV, but in NY you're on the hook for the rent, and the remainder of the lease to your landlord.

The landlord will sue you both for the back rent, you're both on the lease.

Be prepared to pay the landlord the entirety of the rent, or have the terms of the lease enforced by him (you get evicted)

Your options in NY would be to sue your roommate in small claims, it would only cost you the filing fees.

You'd then get a judgement against your roommate, and file it with the clerk's office (which will also cost you a fee)

COLLECTING on that judgement is another matter, but the debt is on record.

My suggestion, tell your roommate you're going to sue him and get a judgement that will be reported to the credit bureaus, which will effect his credit and long term job prospects. Hammer him about the reality of the judgement following him around for a long time, and won't go away without him paying. I'd try and settle the deal with him for 1/2 what he owes, and chalk the rest up as valuable and expensive lesson.
 
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Shame I am in Assghanistan I would love to kick it in Vegas for a while... $2600 for the remainder aint bad. Hell I usually make close to that a month when working on the road at home
smile.gif


Best advice is wash your hands and find a roommate FAST. Preferably 5'8" 110# brunette with green eyes, dresses kinda slutty, and a rich daddy that pays all of her bills.

Vegas Craigslist might be your best friend here.
 
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As usual, Leagle hit the nail on the head. This isn't legal advice from me, and I am not licensed in Nevada, but generally speaking:

First, consider your economic damages: One month's rent, as each month accrues, provided that you can show that you have been actively looking for another tenant and haven't found one, isn't a lot of money.

Second, after you've spent the money to sue, all the legal system can give you is a judgment which you can't enforce if you can't find him and/or he doesn't have any money.

That said, if you do get a judgment against him, he doesn't pay it and then doesn't show up in court to explain why, the judge can issue a bench warrant. It's one of the few cases where someone can be put in jail because they did not pay a debt.

 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

I dunno the small claims procedures in NV, but the thread's consensus is you have a case that can be won.The trick is getting the roommate to pay. It can be forced out of him, though maybe not immediately. I did it to a “businessman” who'd declared bankruptcy. The only thing that can stop you is his death (and mebbe that's not such a bad thing). Here’s how I did it:

I'd definitely advise you to pay the fees and invest the time required to settle this in court. (From my experience in another suit in CA,) this is what will/can happen—you’ll pay your court filing fees and they’ll give you a date to appear. You’ll be required to serve a 'summons to appear' on your former roommate. (It’s possible that a friend can do that; in my state, it was not a requirement that the sheriff’s department or other legal agency serve the summons. That can save ~$35—at least, that’s what it cost 15yr ago. Once your friend serves the paper, he signs an affidavit to that effect, which you take to court with you as proof that the roommate was served.)

Present your case and win it. The judge will say something like, "judgement to Mr. JVencius in the amount of XXX. Case closed.”

Whether or not the roommate shows up for this first court date is moot (my guy didn't). None of us expect him to pay. The court clerk will give you a document proving you’ve won the judgement (I think it was called an 'abstract of judgement’ but I don't remember for sure--that's just a WAG on my part, the "abstract of judgement".). The sumbiche has X number of days to pay; the judge will have determined this time period. When he doesn’t pay, you’ll have to file a second time for a court date. I can’t remember what it’s called but it’s basically a certification of judgement filed with the county clerk along with a declaration that payment hasn’t been received and that your roommate's presence is required in court again. (I know I didn’t have to serve a second subpoena. I can’t remember how notification to my guy, "Bruce SigSauer Expert" was handled.) At this second hearing, he will have to bring all financial records—all bank account statements (and property deeds, vehicle titles, etc. as I recall). When he's notified by the clerk he'll be told what to bring--don't worry about his end... the judge will fry him for not obeying if he doesn't. In my case, the defendant had sheltered all his monies in his wife’s name and declared bankruptcy. He brought bankruptcy papers along with his bank statements and a big smile for me. At the time, I couldn't touch him financially because of his proof of bankruptcy; I could have claimed his motorcycle and other vehicles and sold them (the judge gave me that option) but I declined, not wanting to hassle with any of it, especially since their actual condition and accumulative market value was unknown—whether you want to do that is up to you—I had advice and took a different tact. (I should mention that at this second hearing, I was allowed to ask *anything* I thought pertinent--SocSec, DL number, wife's SocSec and DL, mother and father's names and addresses and phone numbers, etc.--anything I might need to find my guy.)

After the second court session in which I attained proof of his documented bankruptcy, I filed with the county clerk <span style="font-style: italic">again</span>. This time it <span style="font-style: italic">was</span> called a ‘Certification of Judgement”. It is good for 10 years, and every 10 years it is renewable. It provides for all court-related costs—subpoena fees, filing fees, postage fees, plus the judgement itself to be paid “on demand” –that is, whenever you think he has money. If I recall, it took me 3 years and 8 months to get my money. In that time, the County assessed “interest” against the judgement. But it gives you the right to summon him to court (with all his financial records) whenever you think he's got money.

I "found out" “he had money” when he attempted to refinance his house. (By that time, I'd moved away. The entire transaction was done by mail on my end.) His name appeared along with his wife’s on the mortgage documents, naturally. He couldn't proceed with his new loan until he cleared the lien I had against him. That is to say, nobody would lend him money until his previous legal debts were cleared. (In my venue, the county clerk assessed 9% compounded interest and collected it for me when his mortgage company's credit check triggered a county response because the lien on file had been accessed. I had to wait 3-plus years, but my judgement + 9% compounded was well worth the wait [though maybe not the aggravation--but the satisfaction was exhilarating]. He *musta* been pissed at the thought that he not only got caught thinking the bankruptcy sheltered him, but he was assessed 'penalties', too. I dunno where one went to get 9% compound interest in 1986, but I didn't do anything except celebrate gleefully.)

You're "lucky" to benefit from the age of 'wired' information---I hadda walk all over the courthouse and local library for this back in the day...read up on it here: Certificate of Judgement

Will somebody please explain to JVencius what an "abstract of judgement" is? I don't remember anything but the phrase, but I know I needed to know at the time.
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That said, if you do get a judgment against him, he doesn't pay it and then doesn't show up in court to explain why, the judge can issue a bench warrant. It's one of the few cases where someone can be put in jail because they did not pay a debt. </div></div>

"Can" doesn't typically mean will, particularly under these circumstances.

Just like Adultery is still a crime in many states, but when's the last time you've heard somebody charged with it?

In NY State, non-appearance by the roommate simply results in summary judgement for the plaintiff.

Judges don't issue bench warrants for non-appearances in civil matters, criminal is a whole other story.

The Court has no interest in this matter, so why would they issue a bench warrant?
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Just like Adultery is still a crime in many states, but when's the last time you've heard somebody charged with it?

In NY State, non-appearance by the roommate simply results in summary judgement for the plaintiff.

Judges don't issue bench warrants for non-appearances in civil matters, criminal is a whole other story.

The Court has no interest in this matter, so why would they issue a bench warrant?</div></div>That is incorrect. Adultery is not like failing to pay (one is crime, the other is not), and a judge exercising his power from the bench is unlike the policy of a government department. You are mixing-up legal proceedings: A show cause hearing takes place after the judgment, when the defendant fails to pay and fails to appear for a debtor's exam. And so the court does have what you call an 'interest' in the matter because the defendant disobeyed a court order. Judges don't like being disobeyed and they routinely act on issues of contempt, both civil and criminal.
 
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Procedure in NY State is not as you've described.

Non-appearance results in the outcome I've depicted, there are no additional exams as you're accustomed.

I'd love for the Court to be a party to the action, and empowered to get me my judgements, but they are not.

A contempt of court citation for non-appearance isn't going to happen in NY State, contrary to what you're suggesting.

In an eviction situation as we're discussing, the Judge issues the landlord the judgement when the tenant doesn't show.

The Court's involvement is done, they're not in the business of collecting others judgements, cased closed.
 
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The court will never be a party to the litigation. You misunderstand the process.
 
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Are you licensed to practice in NY State?

I own over two hundred units and have on average 2 evictions a month, so I'm MORE than familiar with the process.

In NY State, the Court will NEVER issue a contempt citation in the context you're proposing.

Non-appearance results in summary judgement, case closed.

This is fact.
 
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The most common type of warrant issued in new York State is a warrant that is issued by the Court when one fails to appear in court on the date one is scheduled to appear.

In the civil context it is so common that the government has developed formulaic procedures for civil enforcement:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/services/services_enforcement_arrests.shtml

Have a look at CPLR 5210, then at <span style="font-style: italic">Citibank v Angst</span> (2009). A contempt motion under CPLR 5210 to enforce a CPLR 5224 subpoena served on a judgment debtor is probably not an enforcement device that requires institution of a special proceeding:
http://www.thecplrblog.com/cplr-5210/
 
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I'll ask again, are you licensed to practice in NY State?

In the context we're discussing (EVICTIONS) you're dead wrong on bench warrants being issued.

Nobody is going to jail in NY for non-appearance in an EVICTION hearing, contrary to your claim.

Are bench warrants issued in other civil matters for non-appearance? Yes.

Are bench warrants issued for non-appearance in eviction proceedings? NO
 
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You guys are arguing over NY laws on a NV issue? Really? And GM you're not a Licensed Attorney in NY either so asking Graham if he's licensed to practice there is a mute point. Just because you've never seen it in your experiences with the matter does not mean it's not plausible. Just like Adultery... Just because you haven't seen someone incur such penalty does not mean the penalty doesn't exist.
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll ask again, are you licensed to practice in NY State?</div></div>The Bar exam that I took didn't involve coloring or the use of crayons.
laugh.gif
 
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Broker, the point I'm contending is strictly related to Graham's incorrect info on NY's eviction process.

The fact that I'm party to numerous evictions every year gives me firsthand knowledge of the process, unlike Graham.

I'm not a J.D., but retain several, in addition to having a few in my immediate family.

This isn't my first rodeo, I speak from several decades of experience owning real property.

How many appearances in NY courts for EVICTIONS has Graham done?

The obvious answer is none, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conservation.
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The obvious answer is none, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conservation.
</div></div>
We should all be concerned about conservation.
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broker, the point I'm contending is strictly related to Graham's incorrect info on NY's eviction process.

The fact that I'm party to numerous evictions every year gives me firsthand knowledge of the process, unlike Graham.

I'm not a J.D., but retain several, in addition to having a few in my immediate family.

This isn't my first rodeo, I speak from several decades of experience owning real property.

How many appearances in NY courts for EVICTIONS has Graham done?

The obvious answer is none, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conservation.
</div></div>LOL!

"Broker, I'm wrong more than I am prepared to admit. I am not a pompous ass, but I do know several. I am, however, a big-shot and I need you to know that. I think I do a good job of bringing up useless information in order to push a bad position. The obvious answer is that I'm insecure and I need you to think I'm both smart and capable, despite the hard time I am having convincing you of that. Too bad no one cares about my favorite topic: Me."
laugh.gif


BTW, the more obvious answer is: <span style="font-style: italic">pro hac vice</span>.
 
Re: ? for the lawyers here...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broker, the point I'm contending is strictly related to Graham's incorrect info on NY's eviction process.

The fact that I'm party to numerous evictions every year gives me firsthand knowledge of the process, unlike Graham.

I'm not a J.D., but retain several, in addition to having a few in my immediate family.

This isn't my first rodeo, I speak from several decades of experience owning real property.

How many appearances in NY courts for EVICTIONS has Graham done?

The obvious answer is none, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conservation.
</div></div>LOL!

Broker, I'm wrong more than I am prepared to admit. I am not a pompous ass, but I do know several. I am, however, a big-shot and I need you to know that. I think I do a good job of bringing up useless information in order to push a bad position. The obvious answer is that I'm insecure and I need you to think I'm both smart and capable, despite the hard time I am having convincing you of that. Too bad no one cares about my favorite topic: Me.
laugh.gif


BTW, the more obvious answer is: <span style="font-style: italic">pro hac vice</span>. </div></div>

Uhh, was everything after "Broker, I'm wrong more than I am prepared to admit." aimed at Guy cause I don't recall insinuating you were in error but arguing a mute point, lol... And Graham... I do care about you... group hug...
wink.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll ask again, are you licensed to practice in NY State?</div></div>The Bar exam that I took didn't involve coloring or the use of crayons.
laugh.gif

You slay me.