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Ford Mechanic?

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My son is using my 2001 Ford Escape.
He's 3 hours away, so it's not something I can just go and look at.

The thing was running rough yesterday. Had it towed to a local dealership.
They inspected and found that #6 spark plug had popped out.
The coil and boot was also damaged.
I spoke w/ the mechanic by phone and he said that the head was not damaged and the threads were fine.

They want a tad over $700 to fix it. Quote is about $250 parts and $475 labor (5 hours).

Am I missing something here?
Shouldn't this be a pretty simple matter of replacing the plug, coil and boot?
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

Depending on whether it is the 2.0 or the 3.0 you have spark plugs 4 or 6 platinum $5 each, plug wire set about $50 to $80 depending on quality. The coil would only be damaged if it ran for a long period of time arcing heavily and or physical damage coil is around $75 based on quality again. parts seem pretty close but labor charge is real high even at dealership prices discounting diagnosis (usually a 1.0 hour charge) spark plugs are difficult on the V6 but coil and wires are about .5 hrs each the dif may be the plugs on the V6 those take a couple hours to do actual time, so they may be padding a little if V6.
This all depends on I4 or V6 What motor is in it?
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

I know nothing about the Escape, but the labor estimate seems pretty steep. The parts could be in check, especially if an entire coil pack (assuming there are not individual coils) must be purchased. I tried to do an image search to see why it would be so much, but all auto sites are blocked here. One possibility is if #6 is in the back and the motor sits transverse, the motor might have to be rotated forward or a motor mount disconnected in order to jack up the motor to gain access to the plug.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

Motor doesn't have to be rotated it is that you have to remove the upper plenum to access 3 of the plugs on the V6. Done a couple of them and the first ones you do you end up breaking a coolant fitting that is plastic but the new factory one is metal. If you are careful and have done at least one you know not to flex it.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

firing order for 3.0 escape

92725094.gif
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

Mrs. Lazy for the most part I am giving a semi-retail price based on a shop doing the repairs. You can price shop or bring in your own parts if you want but be advised, most regular shops and dealerships will void any kind of parts and or labor warranty if you bring in your own parts. Cost on dealer parts is usually marked up by 100% to 200% as a general rule and shops just make up the price based on downtime and what mood they are in at the time
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

just to get this cleared(lazy21 is telling me what to type) based on the diagram this should be fairly easy to do, #6 is right in front and some basic tools should get it done
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

I would have to think they are saying to replace all plugs. Still under the assumption that it is a V6 still have not heard back on the engine from tucker
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

quote from tucker

"They inspected and found that #6 spark plug had popped out."
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This all depends on I4 or V6 What motor is in it? </div></div>

Well, it was the #6 spark plug, so ......
smirk.gif


I found a detailed description of the process here.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/idx/4...ord_Escape.html

My BIL and I are going to take his trailer and go get it Friday afternoon.
We'll fix it Saturday AM at his shop.
I see that it's more labor intensive than I originally would have thought, but I'm still not giving them $700+ for the job.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mrs.Lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">firing order for 3.0 escape

92725094.gif
</div></div>

Very good information!
Thanks for the effort!
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

The video is equally helpful.
Many thanks to all, especially Lazy21!
I'm glad your wife still has an account.
wink.gif
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

Tucker, that labor charge is insane. The normal flat fee for a driveability diagnosis is 1hr. That could be anywhere from $75-100. The labor to remove the upper plenum and replace 1 plug should not be more than 1hr at the same rate and an experienced tech would not even take that long. It is based on a flat rate time so you should ask them where they are coming up with $475 in labor. I do this everyday, so I'm curious to hear there breakdown.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

According to information posted above, they don't even have to pull the intake to get to that plug, so it should be a quick and easy deal to replace the missing one and the coil.

I'm sure they're quoting replacing the entire set at this rate, but we can still do it a lot cheaper ourselves.

They also said his brake rotors were shot.
Why they needed to look at them when the spark plug was popped out is beyond me.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

They're trying to make a sale. Five hours for a plug swap thou. Also, I'd be curious to know how long it took him to diag the problem and get it down to the point of knowing that the head and treads were OK without taking it all the way apart and then why its gonna take another five to put it back together.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

Mitchel online shows 2.9hrs for replacement of all plugs.

I did see that it was just number six did not argue that point.
was looking at tucker's quote that plug wire and coil is damaged. I have not seen the car, only that plugs are not supposed to loosen. If one was loose I would check all plugs and replace them depending on mileage and or last tune that would be a correct and thorough diagnosis to assure the customer did not come back with another plug spit out but this time it has damaged the threads and needs a heli-coil or cylinder head. Funnest time I have is diagnosis that has come from another shop. The first thing you do is to completely ignore the previous diagnosis and do your own. As per lazy21 diagram it shouldn't take more than 1 minute tops. Your choice on checking the rest and whether or not they are right about the coil and plug. Mechanics, lawyers, and thieves.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My son is using my 2001 Ford Escape.
He's 3 hours away, so it's not something I can just go and look at.

The thing was running rough yesterday. Had it towed to a local dealership.
They inspected and found that #6 spark plug had popped out.
The coil and boot was also damaged.
I spoke w/ the mechanic by phone and he said that the head was not damaged and the threads were fine.

They want a tad over $700 to fix it. Quote is about $250 parts and $475 labor (5 hours).

Am I missing something here?
Shouldn't this be a pretty simple matter of replacing the plug, coil and boot?</div></div>
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

put a new # 6 plug back in and run her before doing anything else which likely doesn't need to be done anyway and get back to wakn berds.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As per lazy21 diagram it shouldn't take more than 1 minute tops. </div></div>

That's what I'm seeing as well.
It pisses me off that they didn't even discuss a minimal fix to get the vehicle drivable so he could could get it home to me.
I guess I just don't think the way they do.
I guess that's why $700 is a lot of money to me.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STRICK9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">put a new # 6 plug back in and run her before doing anything else which likely doesn't need to be done anyway and get back to wakn berds. </div></div>

We're going out for a while on Friday AM. My BIL can't leave until afternoon anyway, so it's no use in sitting around waiting for him or any other wasteful activities like working.
wink.gif
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

They may be quoting the entire set which is a good idea if the plugs are worn. But if someone replaced the plugs recently and #6 was not tightened than that explains the problem and you only need to replace the plug and coil on that cylinder. If they were not replaced than why was that plug loose? Ask your son if he heard an audible ticking noise and if so how long ago did it start?

On the brakes its common for shops to check vehicles for other work, especially during the slower time of the year.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

I understand the full set quote. I just don't like the way they didn't mention how easily they could have gotten him back on the road.

No worries.
I've already bought the parts for less than $100 and we're doing the full set.
The plugs have never been replaced. I have no idea how it got loose??
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

did you see the part where it say you need a new intake manifold gasket? You could use your old ones just don't tear them up(if they're rubber)
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

Like you mentioned before the way of thinking is different. From a father and consumer standpoint the minimum is what you expect. From the business end the minimum doesn't pay the overhead. The right way to do it is presenting it both ways and giving the customer the option.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

I've actually had this happen to a Ford I worked on once, it's such a common problem, that they sell a helicoil fix kit just for it.

I was able to fix it and save the head, but it was a bitch, and the coils are expensive.

Edit: Mine was a V8 Expedition I believe...
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

Plugs don't normally come loose. Fords have been known to have problems with spark plug threads on the V8's. Be sure to double check all of them before putting new plugs in.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?


The plugs have never been replaced. I have no idea how it got loose?? [/quote]

Ford had a problem with self-loosening spark plus in the late 90's and early '00.

They fixed the problem on the new Triton series engines; now the plugs can often not be removed without breaking off in the heads.

Be VERY careful when installing the new plug when you get her home. The first few threads are always damaged when a plug screws itself out. You will likely need to clean up the threads with a specially made spark plug thread chaser available at most auto parts stores. If you dont use one the threads may cross and the plug will seem tight but not seal the cylinder gasses which will seriously damage the head.

On a brighter note, the coil likely is not damaged so repair parts cost should be pretty low.

Good luck!
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

I have the tool for that. Works great

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.S.T. Glenn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The plugs have never been replaced. I have no idea how it got loose?? </div></div>

Ford had a problem with self-loosening spark plus in the late 90's and early '00.

They fixed the problem on the new Triton series engines; now the plugs can often not be removed without breaking off in the heads.

Be VERY careful when installing the new plug when you get her home. The first few threads are always damaged when a plug screws itself out. You will likely need to clean up the threads with a specially made spark plug thread chaser available at most auto parts stores. If you dont use one the threads may cross and the plug will seem tight but not seal the cylinder gasses which will seriously damage the head.

On a brighter note, the coil likely is not damaged so repair parts cost should be pretty low.

Good luck![/quote]
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mrs.Lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did you see the part where it say you need a new intake manifold gasket? You could use your old ones just don't tear them up(if they're rubber) </div></div>

Yes. I'm going to go ahead and have them on hand, just in case.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

Well, here's a mystery for you.

We made the trip this afternoon and evening to retrieve the vehicle.
We got to the dealership and the service dept. was closed, but we could still pick the car up, after paying the $95 fee for them to diagnose the problem.

Now, keep in mind that this car was running poorly and that the service mgr. had told me that it had blown out a spark plug, damaging the coil pack and boot.

So I pay the bill and we prepare to load the ting on the trailer.
The plan was to crank it up and quickly get it on the trailer.

We cranked the vehicle and it runs flawlessly.

So WTF is going on here?
We'll be tearing it down and checking it in the AM.
Obviously, either accidentally or on purpose, someone either fixed it completely or at least reinstalled the spark plug and coil pack.

I'll update after we finish Saturday.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

They most likely reinstalled the spark plug and the boot and coil has only cosmetic damage. They probably recommended replacing them as a precautionary measure. Boot protects against dirt and moisture so in rain it may run poorly, if the internal portion of the coil wasn't overheated it will run fine. Change it all anyway.
 
Re: Ford Mechanic?

The coil pack broke the retaining screw off. They screwed the plug back in and slipped the boot back on. He could have driven it home easily.

We replaced the coil pack and all of the plugs in a bit over one hour.

My BIL's service manual quoted 1.3 hours for the job, and that's about what it took us to do it.

The plug that came out appeared to have only been in by about three threads from the beginning. Over the 100k mile+ life of the vehicle, it had finally worked its way out.

Oh yeah, the brake rotors that the dealership had said were severely worn.... they were fine as well. No excessive wear, not grooves or scarring, and the pads were still at 60-75%.

That's another $400 they wanted to squeeze out of me, because they thought they were dealing with a sucker.

Utter bullshit!

I am going to file every possible complaint that I can on these jerks, beginning with the local and state governments.
 
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