Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

[Foul Mike]

This in indeed a scar or deeper for the LEOs that have served under him.
The Arapaho County x sheriff is now caught up with providing meth to BOYS for sexual gratification.
He is now being held in the detention center named after him.
The Pat Sullivan Detention Center.
I am not going to place blame upon him nor prejudge him as all are innocent until proven guilty. however, his bond was at $250K until the judge reviewed the evidence obtained WITH warrant and upped the bail to $500K.
It is sad to see this as I had personally met the man and thought he was OK, then this shit comes up.
I guess that this will be a "Poster Child" as to the things Meth does to people.
The news reports that he may be HIV Pos. but that hasn't come through yet as being fact. Either way, it does not look good for him or his cohorts that may have known about this in years past, and we are talking about years.
The news reports that more arrests are forthcoming. as to who knew what.
I will not hold my breath as the Thin Blue Line gets stretched further, all are trying to cover their ass.
Makes me wonder how many asses he has been up.
Regards, FM

 

[Bedlam]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

Good riddance to a gun banner.

 

[Krav69]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

I'll go ahead and prejudge him.

He's a guy high on meth who is pickle tickling little boys, and he needs to die. I'm hoping for a little jailhouse justice, even better since the jail has his name on it; his name should be on the building "in memoriam".

Typical for Colorado these days; at least once every two weeks a person in a position of trust (teachers, priests, police,etc.), is found to be boning little kids. Not surprising for a place with massive amounts of sex offenders living in the Denver Metro Area, some of the highest rates in the entire country.

Can't wait for the other victims to come forward. Guaranteed there'll be some. Maybe they can finally get their slice of "justice", if there is such a thing anymore.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good riddance to a gun banner.
</div></div>

Based on the original post this rates very low in grand scheme of things for me.

First and foremost the thing bothers me the most is this is institutional malfeasance. If there were several people who knew of this and actively covered it up that is at best unethical and immoral. It speaks to a greater issue with our society and government; specifically the abuse of power by those who have it and the timidity of those that go along with those corrupt individuals.

 

[snave58]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

more trouble for him today as additional evidence comes out about his troubled sexual delights. I think equal ass pounding is in order until he bleeds out. what a scum bag, I cant even stand to look at him on the news. Half a million in cash only!, is his latest bail.

 

[Sportin Wood]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

i thought the next guy that posted something bad about law enforcement was getting banned no questions asked??

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i thought the next guy that posted something bad about law enforcement was getting banned no questions asked?? </div></div>

RE:<span style="font-weight: bold">Former</span> LEO Sheriff in deep shit


He's a private citizen now. BTW why is it that these dirtbag pieces of shit are always classified as just pedophiles, and not Homosexual pedophiles?

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

I don't trust the media too much.
They tend to blow things out of proportion and exagerate things to say the least.
Once they have their story out, be it right or wrong, they seldom if ever recant their reporting if a person is later found to have not done what he or she was accused of.
Tonight on the news they reported that Sullivan is being investigated on the death of a person he had bailed out of jail who was later found dead along the river bank.
That death case was never solved they said.
Maybe it was an OD, who knows?
This thing becomes more sordid every time you watch or hear the news.
If, in fact, his actions were known by other LEOs and they did nothing I hope they hang them too.
I would bet there is all kinds of CYA going on if that is the case and I doubt all off the facts ever come out.
This whole thing bothers me and I hope it all gets ironed out. Regards, FM

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

StanwoodSpartan, If bringing this topic up justfies banning me, have at it.
As I have posted, he is innocent until proven guilty.
This kind of stuff really pisses me off, especially if he is HIV poitive and passed it to others.
If he was doing this while still in office, then I am guilty of saying something bad about law enforcement and if others covered for him, guilty again so go on and ban me.
I didn't bring this up to bash LEOs, just something that I find to be very reprehensible. Regards FM

 

[300WSM]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

+100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good riddance to a gun banner.
</div></div>

 

[In2b8u]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

This isn't a video clip of someone getting maced, or sticked with out the before action that brought the method of compliance. There is no sideline judging of the officers actions. This is a report from the news on a LEO that went south.
LINK

 

[High Binder]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> BTW why is it that these dirtbag pieces of shit are always classified as just pedophiles, and not Homosexual pedophiles? </div></div>

Pedophilia is a crime whereas homosexuality isn't, at least in most places.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

Catholic priests, football and basketball coaches, now LEO/former LEO child molesters... What is this world coming to?

 

[1911fan]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

"Ordinary" child molesters are creepy enough, and should have special and painful public punishment before their execution. Authority figures (Catholic priests, football and basketball coaches, now LEO/former LEO child molesters...) deserve a special place in Hell for using their place in society as an advantage to molest.
I'm all for having them drawn and quartered, publicly, and slowly.


1911fan

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> BTW why is it that these dirtbag pieces of shit are always classified as just pedophiles, and not Homosexual pedophiles?</div></div>

Touching kids is touching kids. Sexual preference is irrelevant. I dunno where you think it would go with that?

I don't see this as LEO bashing, although I am sure there are certain folks itching to jump in on this to turn it into that.

 

[HSNARC]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Catholic priests, football and basketball coaches, now LEO/former LEO child molesters... What is this world coming to? </div></div>

I dont think any of this is new, or a product of this current society. I think this has probably happened since society began. A very sad disturbing part of life. The only thing different in our current society is how we deal with the offenders after their apprehension. Throw them in general population at any jail or prison on earth.......problem solved.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

This is pretty disgusting and repulsive more so the fact that he may have been knowingly spreading around HIV.

If true, I hope he burns in hell but not before suffering a similar fate in prison.

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

I watched the news again tonight, the shit gets deeper and deeper.
Please note from my posts on this thread that I have been trying to keep an open mind and not pre-judge him.
The more that comes out about this subject, the harder it is for me to retain that stance.
People in a position of trust is kind of going out the window.
That makes it bad for good people who are in a position of trust and makes it hard for someone who really needs those people in a position of trust to come out and seek the help they need, whatever it may be[rape, incest, abuse etc].
This whole bin of shit isn't going to help anyone and will probably hurt the good ones who really do care.
I am not one who believes in help from the authorities all though I know it exists.
This can do nothing but reaffirm people in doubt about what they should ask or do when in need of help. They won't ask for it.
This is in Arapaho County but I fear it is going to bleed over around the state and many will suffer.
I hope that the other departments don't suffer from this but must be realistic and know that they will.
There are many good LEO agencies that will have doubt cast upon them and that is just not right, just the way things go.
Regards, FM

 

[snave58]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

as of today they are looking real hard at a possible murder wrap on him for the drug dude who showed up dead right after being released from jail...guess who was the last to be seen with him. also his other connection has said today that there was always young boys hanging around him. I am guessing only that these boys were under the age of 18 based on the comments today. he is getting in deeper every minute.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kimmel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as of today they are looking real hard at a possible murder wrap on him for the drug dude <span style="font-weight: bold">who showed up dead</span> right after being released from jail...</div></div>

I couldn't resist. I'm bored and needed to have some fun.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DCUh5liPkK8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DCUh5liPkK8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

The lady doth protest too much

Player Queen:
Both here and hence pursue me lasting strife,
If once I be a widow, ever I be a wife!
Player King:
'Tis deeply sworn. Sweet, leave me here a while,
My spirits grow dull, and fain I would beguile
The tedious day with sleep.
Player Queen:
Sleep rock thy brain,
And never come mischance between us twain!
Hamlet:
Madam, how like you this play?
Queen:
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230

Almost always misquoted as "Methinks the lady doth protest too much," Queen Gertrude's line is both drier than the misquotation (thanks to the delayed "methinks") and much more ironic. Prince Hamlet's question is intended to smoke out his mother, to whom, as he intended, this Player Queen bears some striking resemblances [seeTHE PLAY'S THE THING]. The queen in the play, like Gertrude, seems too deeply attached to her first husband to ever even consider remarrying; Gertrude, however, after the death of Hamlet's father, has remarried. We don't know whether Gertrude ever made the same sorts of promises to Hamlet's father that the Player Queen makes to the Player King (who will soon be murdered)—but the irony of her response should be clear. By "protest," Gertrude doesn't mean "object" or "deny"—these meanings postdate Hamlet. The principal meaning of "protest" in Shakespeare's day was "vow" or "declare solemnly," a meaning preserved in our use
of "protestation." When we smugly declare that "the lady doth protest too much," we almost always mean that the lady objects so much as to lose credibility. Gertrude says that Player Queen affirms so much as to lose credibility. Her vows are too elaborate, too artful, too insistent. More cynically, the queen may also imply that such vows are silly in the first place, and thus may indirectly defend her own remarriage.

 

[Xshot]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HSNARC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Catholic priests, football and basketball coaches, now LEO/former LEO child molesters... What is this world coming to? </div></div>

I dont think any of this is new, or a product of this current society. I think this has probably happened since society began. A very sad disturbing part of life. The only thing different in our current society is how we deal with the offenders after their apprehension. Throw them in general population at any jail or prison on earth.......problem solved. </div></div>

There's more to come! What we've been seeing recently is only the tip of the iceberg. Take a moment and think about how many people in positions of authority either support or protect the lifestyle of these offenders. Every branch of government (federal, state and local), public school systems and universities are chuck full of them.

Kinda explains some of their extreme positions and how we get these wacky laws... doesn't it?

 

[AMM0]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

I swear, I mean this in the nicest way possible... I hope he burns in Hell. Just sayin'...

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

Meth to boys for sex? You don't need a movie plot for bad anymore anymore I guess. The plot lines are worse in reality.

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

The court lowered his bond to $50,000 yesterday or this morning.
As of the last newscast I saw or heard, he is still in the jail with his name on the front.
I do wonder if this is not proof positive of what meth can do to your brain.
None the less, we probably won't hear much more out of this until in Jan. of the upcoming year as the investigation takes it's course and the wheels of justice grind on.
Regards, FM

 

[Maxwell]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

As always, I have a question. The closest I come to a prison is when I pass by Trenton State on my way to work every day. Second, there is no way on this good earth either Lori or I would do anything to cause either of us to go to prison.

One question always remains in my mind, is there anything to 'prison justice'? That is, do child molesters & rapists get what is coming to them in the exercise yard? The only case I remember was from a few years ago when Mud Man Simon get his head caved in by a fellow inmate stomping on it.

Maxwell

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

Yes there is. Jeffery Domer Comes to mind.

 

[Austan]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mexican match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes there is. Jeffery Domer Comes to mind.</div></div>

Spelled Dahlmer, but yeah, long live the broomstick!

 

[Maggot]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maxwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As always, I have a question. The closest I come to a prison is when I pass by Trenton State on my way to work every day. Second, there is no way on this good earth either Lori or I would do anything to cause either of us to go to prison.

One question always remains in my mind, is there anything to 'prison justice'? That is, do child molesters & rapists get what is coming to them in the exercise yard? The only case I remember was from a few years ago when Mud Man Simon get his head caved in by a fellow inmate stomping on it.

Maxwell </div></div>

Real men, even real men who are dumb assed criminals, dont put up with this shit. He'll get his. Plus, consider all the guys he put in there, who have a score to settle.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

A lot of inmates have a history of abuse and were victims themselves. They have little use for abusers.

There is a heirarchy... and those who have abused children are at the very, very, very bottom of it. Well, except for former LE's who abused children. That may be a new floor in the prison cellar.

Assuming he is found guilty of the charges, things will not go well for him. Justice will be swift and I bet it won't conform to 8th Amendment.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

Sullivan bonded out yesterday.
The news crews were all over it.
From what I understand, this is not about giving meth to underage people, but to people in the 20-30 year range, some addicts and some trying to recover.
I sure as hell don't have all of the facts, and as we all know, the media puts out shit just for a story, be it right or wrong.
The early morning radio people on KHOW 630 AM are all over this like white on rice.
I don't know how much they played in getting this thing started, but are hanging on and I think they have all kinds of bad shit on Sullivan and keep bringing it forward.
It is one hell of a sad mess. I hope after all of the mudslinging and innuendo that ALL of the facts come out and if there was cover up along the way that those responsible have their feet held to the fire also.
In the video of him coming out of the detention center that bears his name, he looks like hell.
He is old and has a cane and other than blue pills, I would wonder how he would get it up. I guess if it is coming his way he wouldn't need to get it up, just take it in.
In the past he was on some kind of task force to combat meth and it's use.
If he was and/or is a user of meth, I would think he could be a "Poster Child" for this is what meth does to you.
Until all of the investigations are done and he hits the court, who knows what is going on?
It does not look good for him however.
Regards, FM

 

[HSNARC]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

I really dont think Meth or any other drug would cause you to get gay, or molest kids. I think those things are already in you, drugs dont cause you to want to bang dudes.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Foul Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sullivan bonded out yesterday.
The news crews were all over it.
From what I understand, this is not about giving meth to underage people, but to people in the 20-30 year range, some addicts and some trying to recover.
I sure as hell don't have all of the facts, and as we all know, the media puts out shit just for a story, be it right or wrong.
The early morning radio people on KHOW 630 AM are all over this like <span style="font-size: 14pt">white on rice </span> .
I don't know how much they played in getting this thing started, but are hanging on and I think they have all kinds of bad shit on Sullivan and keep bringing it forward.
It is one hell of a sad mess. I hope after all of the mudslinging and innuendo that ALL of the facts come out and if there was cover up along the way that those responsible have their feet held to the fire also.
In the video of him coming out of the detention center that bears his name, he looks like hell.
He is old and has a cane and other than blue pills, I would wonder how he would get it up. I guess if it is coming his way he wouldn't need to get it up, just take it in.
In the past he was on some kind of task force to combat meth and it's use.
If he was and/or is a user of meth, I would think he could be a "Poster Child" for this is what meth does to you.
Until all of the investigations are done and he hits the court, who knows what is going on?
It does not look good for him however.
Regards, FM</div></div>

Brings up a joke I heard Townes Van Zant tell....Whats white and crawls up your leg? Uncle Ben's Perverted Rice.

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

As I posted at the top of this, the guy is innocent until proven guilty, this is not a cop bashing thread, just something that I find disturbing.
We should all not judge until things are all ironed out and keep a clear mind. We don't know what all is going on here I just hope that ALL of the facts come out.
I could make jokes about what is white and crawls up your leg like maggots but I won't.
I seem to be able to put my own foot in my mouth without help from others so don't help me.
I only wish that all that are culpable are brought forth and their crimes are brought forward and they pay the price.
I really don't think that will happen and CYA is the talk going on in those circles.
I would like to say,"Hang his ass." but am waiting for the facts before saying that. Trying to be fair, even though I find it hard to be so.
Regards, FM

 

[Maggot]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Foul Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I posted at the top of this, the guy is innocent until proven guilty, this is not a cop bashing thread, just something that I find disturbing.
We should all not judge until things are all ironed out and keep a clear mind. We don't know what all is going on here I just hope that ALL of the facts come out.
<span style="font-size: 14pt">I could make jokes about what is white and crawls up your leg like maggots but I won't. </span>
I seem to be able to put my own foot in my mouth without help from others so don't help me.
I only wish that all that are culpable are brought forth and their crimes are brought forward and they pay the price.
I really don't think that will happen and CYA is the talk going on in those circles.
I would like to say,"Hang his ass." but am waiting for the facts before saying that. Trying to be fair, even though I find it hard to be so.
Regards, FM </div></div>

I could have let it pass but I wont. Your the one whos already convicetd him...just by posting. Grow up and act like a man.

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

Maggot, You are right, I should not have put that thing in about maggots.
I was not thinking clearly when I posted about maggots, just thinking about where maggots come from and how rotten this whole thing is.
I am doing my best to not pre-judge him.
I was doing pretty good at it and thought his bail was very high given other things on the news where Celebs. get out on drug things for much less.
My apology to you, I did not mean to offend you, just not thinking things through well enough.
From what I hear and see on the news, minors were not involved, 20-30 year old people were.
I will admit that I don't think I could be on his jury after watching and hearing all that has come out in the media.
I hope you will accept that. Regards, FM

 

[Maggot]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Foul Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maggot, You are right, I should not have put that thing in about maggots.
I was not thinking clearly when I posted about maggots, just thinking about where maggots come from and how rotten this whole thing is.
I am doing my best to not pre-judge him.
I was doing pretty good at it and thought his bail was very high given other things on the news where Celebs. get out on drug things for much less.
My apology to you, I did not mean to offend you, just not thinking things through well enough.
From what I hear and see on the news, minors were not involved, 20-30 year old people were.
I will admit that I don't think I could be on his jury after watching and hearing all that has come out in the media.
I hope you will accept that. Regards, FM





</div></div>

Now we know why they call you foul.

Actulally I had a good laugh...Ive got a pretty thick skin, and you should have seen what I deleted. I love maggots....look at all the good they do in the world. No hard feeling, this place is all in good fun.

On a serious note, I agree about the bail. How could they let this guy out so easily....If I were him I be digging up all the meth money I had buried, and headed for a non extraditing country like North Korea.

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

Thanks Maggot, I really did not mean to offend you.
This thing is a blight on what I believe to be a bunch of good LEOs. Granted there are some bad ones but most are good.
On the radio in the early AM they kick this around and dig up more and more dirt on the subject.
I found this whole subject to be reprehensible, and have watched the reports very carefully.
I do not believe that he was in to minors, but, taking advantage of 20-30 year old people and throwing his weight around as to getting them out of bad situations.
Either way, the local media is on it big time and the County Commissioners are now questioning placing a persons name on a detention center before they are dead.
It is not a good deal any way you look at it.
As far as my posts as to meth altering ones mind, I saw on Discovery Channel a thing about meth about it exciting ones brain as to sexual gratification and wondered about that.
He was probably gay before, but did meth bring it out and he went nuts?
It is not a good thing however it goes, I am just trying to get all of the facts and post nothing that is BS as far as I can tell.
I met this guy at a meeting from the Drug Task force in my hometown for people who own rental property and what to look out for.
I thought he was really a stand up guy and listened to what he had to say, so it was a shock to me to hear of him in this shit.
Who do you listen to and who do you believe?
The fact that I had personally talked to him about this as a landlord and taken his advice made this all the more hard for me to believe what I was hearing.
Again, Maggot, I apologize. they don't call me Foul Mike for nothing.
Regards FM

 

[Maggot]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Foul Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Maggot, I really did not mean to offend you.
This thing is a blight on what I believe to be a bunch of good LEOs. Granted there are some bad ones but most are good.
On the radio in the early AM they kick this around and dig up more and more dirt on the subject.
I found this whole subject to be reprehensible, and have watched the reports very carefully.
I do not believe that he was in to minors, but, taking advantage of 20-30 year old people and throwing his weight around as to getting them out of bad situations.
Either way, the local media is on it big time and the County Commissioners are now questioning placing a persons name on a detention center before they are dead.
It is not a good deal any way you look at it.
<span style="color: #FF0000">As far as my posts as to meth altering ones mind, I saw on Discovery Channel a thing about meth about it exciting ones brain as to sexual gratification and wondered about that. </span>
He was probably gay before, but did meth bring it out and he went nuts?
It is not a good thing however it goes, I am just trying to get all of the facts and post nothing that is BS as far as I can tell.
I met this guy at a meeting from the Drug Task force in my hometown for people who own rental property and what to look out for.
I thought he was really a stand up guy and listened to what he had to say, so it was a shock to me to hear of him in this shit.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Who do you listen to and who do you believe? </span>
The fact that I had personally talked to him about this as a landlord and taken his advice made this all the more hard for me to believe what I was hearing.
Again, Maggot, I apologize. they don't call me Foul Mike for nothing.
Regards FM </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">I wouldnt swear to the scientific accuracy of this but they both probrably simulate the dopamine receptors. </span>

<span style="color: #3333FF"> Yourself</span>

 

[shankster..]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HSNARC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really dont think Meth or any other drug would cause you to get gay, or molest kids. I think those things are already in you, drugs dont cause you to want to bang dudes. </div></div>

Thanks for the first hand clarification.

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

OK I don't get it.
Are there links?
I am trying to be nice--PM me with concerns and explanation as it is going over my head.
I don't understand the colors of your posts.
Regards, FM

 

[Bedlam]

Re: Former LEO Sheriff in deep shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the guy is innocent until proven guilty</div></div>

Only in the eyes of the law. A man is guilty the moment he commits the crime, whether or not a court of law even exists.

Innocent people can be proven guilty in a court of law. They are still innocent people, only guilty in the eyes of the law.

Today I drove 28mph in a 25mph zone. I am guilty of speeding. The fact that I haven't been proven guilty does not make me innocent.

To my eyes this man is guilty. I may or may not change my mind as additional information is revealed.