Fouling shots?

[FisherT&C]

I took two rifles out to the range today and I had deep cleaned both with Barnes CR-10. I cleaned them and bore scoped them until I could not find any copper fouling. A R700 with factory varmint barrel in .243 Win with about 1,000 rounds on it shooting 100 grain Privi Partisan (cheap plinking ammo) The other rifle is a stock Tikka Tac A1 308 Win shooting 160 grain Hammer Target hand loads, around 800 rounds on it.

Both rifles needed 6 rounds down the barrel until they started grouping, the first groups were 1.5"-2" and then both printed 4 shot groups just under .5" at 100 yds.
I do not deep clean very often but both barrels were copper fouled heavily. I use Hoppes #9 for routine cleaning and it usually takes just one fouler to get back to normal.

I was just curious what others see when shooting after a deep clean.

What's your experience with shooting a barrel back in after a deep clean?

 

[whatsupdoc]

Depends on the rifle some do not need any fowling shots and group fine.

 

[Evintos]

The more imperfections in the bore for a brand new barrel, the higher the chance of needing fouling shots. Cut rifle barrels at most 3 rounds. Button rifle barrels 5-8 rounds with from my experience 5R button rifled barrels trending towards the lower end of the range. Never needed more than 10rds.

 

[acudaowner]

not that I have any proof of why I do it more cause that just what I always did when switching loads , rounds , powder or bullets + I love to have a few extra rounds when testing so just in case things took a bump on the way to the range and things moved around I am not wasting my test ammo especially with 22lr going from a wax coated to eel slime at least 10 rounds we use .

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Every barrel is different, quality aside. My advice would be to learn how they behave barrel by barrel:

- is there a POI shift between clean and fowled?
- Does it, and if so how (verticle, horizontal, open, etc), string or open up with heat?
- how far off is the cold bore shot from your warmed up, zero group?
- how dirty can it get before accuracy degrades?

Etc. Etc....

 

[alamo5000]

There is no standard answer, not at least until the cleaning process is standardized.

Once you shoot a few clean and cold bore shots you can start to see patterns.

Something as simple as not mopping out the bore the same each time can make a difference.

The real game is consistency.

 

[camocorvette]

My Anschutz 22 has one sometimes 2 first shots that aren't representing the rifles zero and accuracy. After the first or second shot it settles into dime sized groups. The shift is about .5 inch. So I just account for that in matches.
My impact 6 dasher with proof barrel will impact a 2 inch popper at 438 on a cold bore 1st round if My wind hold is good. That rifle requires no fouling shots.
I think every rifle is different; but the higher quality you go, the less the shift to the point of no shift.

 

[hafejd30]

Judging by your post suggests you’ve never deep cleaned a savage barrel!

Takes about 20 shots to fill the imperfections on those drainpipes

 

[Average guy]

I like to get 10-20 rounds on the barrel before any chronograph or serious group testing. Seems like they settle in and shoot better after a few rounds.

 

[FisherT&C]

My Anschutz 22 has one sometimes 2 first shots that aren't representing the rifles zero and accuracy. After the first or second shot it settles into dime sized groups. The shift is about .5 inch. So I just account for that in matches.
My impact 6 dasher with proof barrel will impact a 2 inch popper at 438 on a cold bore 1st round if My wind hold is good. That rifle requires no fouling shots.
I think every rifle is different; but the higher quality you go, the less the shift to the point of no shift.

Thanks for the info. I chamber barrels so I get a lot of questions about everything. I tell people about how a fouled or "shot in" barrel is necessary for consistency. My range trip just got me curious as to what others have experienced, I thought it would be interesting to hear what anyone has to say.
Thank again.

 

[Marine52]

The best bench rest and F-Class shooters with top of the line barrels shoot “foulers” before they go for record. As posted above, the barrel will tell you when it is ready.

 

[FisherT&C]

Judging by your post suggests you’ve never deep cleaned a savage barrel!

Takes about 20 shots to fill the imperfections on those drainpipes

I owned a savage once for about 5 minutes so I know a little about what you're referring to.

 

[hafejd30]

I owned a savage once for about 5 minutes so I know a little about what you're referring to.

My precision carbine had so many chatter marks I thought the thread protector screwed on inside the muzzle….

 

[FisherT&C]

The best bench rest and F-Class shooters with top of the line barrels shoot “foulers” before they go for record. As posted above, the barrel will tell you when it is ready.

I understand that every barrel can be different. I was interested in people's personal experiences.

 

[Marine52]

I understand that every barrel can be different. I was interested in people's personal experiences.

I clean ‘til my borescope shows the carbon is gone. Two Bartlein Barrels. 3-5 foulers before they are ready To go. Of course I’m also using those shots for a wind baseline.

 

[OREGUN]

Brux 6BRA needs 3-4 to go back to what it was doing before.
Bartlein 6CM MODBB, No foulers required, just goes right back to business.
Different 6CM MODBB, needs at least 5. Shoots like a shotgun until it’s had 5-7 rounds after cleaning.
Krieger 6.5CM, doesn’t really need more than 1, which is always a little off, and then is fine but I’m superstitious so I shoot a 3 shot group.
I clean them all pretty much the same way.
Those are the ones I can remember.

 

[PB&J.]

My precision carbine had so many chatter marks I thought the thread protector screwed on inside the muzzle….

Never look down a Remington era marlin. Mine looks someone rifled it with a fucking rock...

 

[Hardholder439]

This is a completely foreign concept to me. I still don't understand it. In the '90s, I shot 8 years of highpower rifle (iron sights from position with sling and the same rifles out to 1000 yards) with 2 M1 A's an AR 15 and an SR-25. 2 sighters and I was good to go. Fast forward to 2022, it's pretty much the same except I'm shooting a purchased used Dasher benchrest rifle with a Krieger barrel. 2 shots and it's 10s and X es at 300 or 600 on F-class targets. My M1-As had Krieger barrels. Never had a bad one. 2 currently on order but 12 months out. This assumes the same loads. If anything is changed, it will take extra rounds to find your zero. My 2 cents that aren't even worth that any more thanks to those all in on the "Great Reset."

 

[Average guy]

My precision carbine had so many chatter marks I thought the thread protector screwed on inside the muzzle….

My 112 LRP copper fouls like no other, also routinely shoots 1/3-1/2 minute to 1000 yards. It takes about the same to start shooting, but I can definitely tell when it’s too dirty. Accuracy falls off far faster than my proof, criterion, or Hart barrels.

 

[brianf]

truthfully, more important is where the first shots are going

you need to track those as thats rounds that count

clean cold bore or what ever people want to call it nowadys

 

[OREGUN]

truthfully, more important is where the first shots are going

you need to track those as thats rounds that count

clean cold bore or what ever people want to call it nowadys

Nah. That’s two different things. How the gun comes back from a deep clean is not the same as how the shooter effs up their first shot of the day.

 

[kthomas]

Every barrel will have it's own nuances, and every cleaning regime will as well.

However I do wonder how much "fouling shots" are really just cold shooter issues...

 

[Wyo_Jo]

I've encountered a oddity with my hunting rig with fouling shots. I found that I needed approx 50 rounds thru it before groups came to. Groups at best would be 1.2"-1.5", one range day i said eff it an sent nearly all 60 down range. The last few i saved for grouping em on paper and it came down to almost half. Same belief i thought it was me so next outing with no cleaning, cold bore and shooter an managed a .7" group. Nearly ditto when i handed the rifle to my 13 year old boy, .8". So either I had been over cleaning (which never affected it before hand). Or I suspect the powder I currently use (imr 4451) is the main culprit. Before imr i was using H4350 but times got tuff an i bought up a 8# jug of 4451 to get me by. Another possibility is I'm nearing the end of the factory barrel life, I have no idea how many rounds been down it.