Fresh Meat with a Question

[JustSaber]

Gentlemen, ladies, and the rest,

I have been perusing the vast amounts of information stored on this site for the last couple of weeks and I have been able to leech quite a bit of knowledge from the numerous veteran posters here. That said, now that I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous (to my wallet, if nothing else), I would like to ask some (hopefully) informed questions.

As far as background goes, I've always been more of pistol shooter than a rifle shooter. My rifles have all been semi-auto with iron sights, excluding my scoped semi-auto .22 Marlin. However, there is something special about the bolt gun that I really like. I always did much better shooting my dad's old Remington .22 bolt action than I did my Marlin. Whether it was the rifle itself or the attitude change that accompanied switching guns, I do not know. What I do know is that reading this site and others has rekindled my interest in shooting bolt guns.

As stated previously, I have a fair amount of reading here, and hope that I performed adequate due diligence to proceed with my questions without making a complete idiot of myself. If not, I have a thick skin.

Anyway, onward! Since I am somewhat methodical, I will present information in the form of lists, then proceed to the questions.


Intended purpose of rifle:

Primary: Target shooting from 100 to 1000 yards
Secondary: Possible hunting applications (deer rifle)
Secondary: Possible basic competition


Equipment already purchased:

SWFA SS HD 5-20x50
Seekins Medium 30mm Rings
Seekins Rail for Remington 700
Atlas BT-10NC
LaRue LT-171

Equipment left to purchase:

Rifle
Bipod rail

I am pretty much locked into either a Remington 700 5R 24" or a 20" threaded barrel, although if someone can make an excellent argument for the 700P or the 700 LTR, I would consider those models as well. I was set on the 5R, but then I started reading about suppressors. Now I am torn. Again, I will resort to lists to organize my thoughts on the 20" threaded version.

Pros:

1. Lighter, more compact (easier handling)
2. Easier to hunt with
3. Accepts a suppressor

Cons:

1. Some loss of velocity and range
2. To me, 24" inch version looks more aesthetically pleasing
3. More recoil?

To address these points, I am not currently a hunter, although most of my extended family are, and I may join them soon for my first hunt. If so, I would like to avoid purchasing another rifle and scope, even if the rifle I purchase isn't the "best" equipment for the job.

Also, I do not currently have any NFA items, nor am I likely to acquire any in the immediate future. I will someday; however, the time line is unclear.

Finally, to be realistic and honest with myself, I am not sure that shooting out to 1000 yards is a make or break item for me. I will definitely not have the time or money to shoot thousands of rounds in a year, and my assumption is that it requires a good deal of practice to shoot that far. An additional factor is that there are not many long ranges that I am aware of near the DFW area, which makes it less likely that I will get trigger time at that distance. I would be pretty happy with being able to hit consistently at 500 yards, given my lack of familiarity and training.

I do have a reloading press, but will probably start out shooting boxed match ammo (and maybe some surplus I have for my M1A) until I have the time/experience to reload.

I am trying to think of anything else that would be relevant, but am drawing a blank. Thanks to anyone who bothers to read all of this. Have at me!

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

I wish our attorney general would get things moving here… but until then, no suppressors for me. I have a 26” varmint and a 20” tactical and am happy with both but…

The 20” barrel is better balanced, lighter, easier to carry both in and out of vehicles, gun safes, bags and through the hunting fields moving in and out of thick timber and brush. On the 1000 yards range it holds its own to the 26”for anything under 800. That is not to say it does bad beyond that but the extra 100fps the longer barrel gives me would be of benefit 800+ whether I’m shooting 155’s, 168 vlds or 175’s.

I like the look of stainless steel and if I didn’t own the above two (and 3 other 308s) I’d have one. I agree with you on the aesthetically pleasing nature of the 24”. I suspect that the 4 extra inches of barrel will yield 60-70 fps advantage to 20”, this is based off of my testing of same loads fired in both rifles you get about 16 fps per inch in a factory Remington barrel.

So to wrap this up, if you are using it on the range your choice is clear, go 24 5r. If your hunting will be on foot where off hand shots are a possibility or timber/brush must be traversed go 20”. Oh, and I don’t notice a difference in recoil between my two.

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

Welcome!

My first bolt gun purpose-built for precision is a 700 5R. I am very, very happy with it. I had the barrel cut to 20" and threaded for a suppressor, and it is still a tack driver. I don't have my data with me here, but the velocity loss was not bad at all. Having the suppressor is a great benefit to me, makes long days at the range much less fatiguing from both noise and recoil. I also hate having ear plugs in all day, and though I know I still should, I don't wear any if I'm the only one on the range. Recoil reduction is enough that I don't lose sight of my target as the rifle recoils, and my very petite girlfriend even enjoys shooting it. I went with a 22" barrel on my .260, which I use the same suppressor on, and that length seems good, too, but it's fairly long with the can. The 20" is handier, but you're right, it does look a bit odd.

For the bipod, I like the Harris 6-9" (benchrest model) with the notched legs and ability to tilt. I shoot prone and almost always have the legs as short as they will go, so I can't imagine the standard one (9-12"?) would work at all for me.

It sounds like you're on the right track, sorry I couldn't offer any better advice. There is such a wealth of information and experience from the collective membership here, I'm sure that you'll either get your questions answered, or make you even less certain of what you want, because you'll want to try everything!

Keep us posted on your progress!

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

Looks like you've picked some very nice gear to go with your new 5R.

I'd stick with the standard 24" model. Although it's a fun toy, a suppressor won't make you a better shot. You can always get your barrel cut, threaded, and re-crowned if you later decide you can't live without a can.

I'd also suggest investing in a few more items.

1) A torque wrench that covers 15-65 in/lb.
2) A Timney trigger.
3) Williams bottom metal.
4) A cheekrest.

The factory trigger and bottom metal are crap. While the thought of spending 350 bucks to replace the pot metal parts on a new gun might not sound appealing, you won't have to worry about the trigger shoe snapping in half, or damaging the bottom metal if you torque the stock to factory (H-S Precision) specs. If you appreciate quality parts, you won't regret it.

 

[njlohmann]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2) A Timney trigger
</div></div>

+1
Timney makes an outstanding trigger to replace that heaping pile of junk that remington stuck on the rifle.

as for barrel length, I would go with 20 and get the suppressor. I wish I could own them here in MN but I guess some politician watch a movie once and decided that we would all turn into assassins if they were allowed here.

 

[JustSaber]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far! It will probably be another week or so before I have the funds available to order the rifle, barring unforeseen circumstances, so I will keep the thread alive until I make a final decision. It's great to have several opinions, especially on a (for me) high-dollar purchase like this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So to wrap this up, if you are using it on the range your choice is clear, go 24 5r. If your hunting will be on foot where off hand shots are a possibility or timber/brush must be traversed go 20”. Oh, and I don’t notice a difference in recoil between my two.
</div></div>

The majority of the use will probably be shooting targets, however, it is nice to have the option to do more than one thing with a specific platform, even if that platform may not be the "optimal" one for the intended task. Sometimes "good" is good enough. This requires some more consideration on my part...

 

[JustSaber]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charlie Papa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It sounds like you're on the right track, sorry I couldn't offer any better advice. There is such a wealth of information and experience from the collective membership here, I'm sure that you'll either get your questions answered, or make you even less certain of what you want, because you'll want to try everything!

Keep us posted on your progress!</div></div>

That is great advice in and of itself. I am already seeing exactly what you mean. I definitely have an addictive personality, which combined with a tendency towards perfectionism and poor impulse control (read poor funds management practices), this forum is extremely dangerous for me.

I will keep this thread updated as I receive equipment, even though I am sure everyone has seen this stuff many times before. Personally, I have never gotten tired of looking at nice firearms related pictures.

 

[JustSaber]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like you've picked some very nice gear to go with your new 5R.

I'd stick with the standard 24" model. Although it's a fun toy, a suppressor won't make you a better shot. You can always get your barrel cut, threaded, and re-crowned if you later decide you can't live without a can.</div></div>

Okay, this makes sense. A question though: if I am not able to practice frequently, will the 20" version really have a negative effect on me? To clarify, let's say that I am able to practice long range shooting 6 times a year on average, shooting 200 rounds each time. Is that sufficient practice (assuming I practice correctly; I know there are several variables here) to be able to make 1000 yard shots? My understanding is that the 20" version makes shots up to 800 yards with no significant difference from the 24" version. Given these considerations, would it be more economical to buy the 20" as it should do everything I need out to 800 yards while I am training, with the additional capabilities to accept the suppressor and hunt more comfortably should I decide I need/want to do these things? I guess I see two scenarios here:

Scenario 1: I purchase the 24" and decide I want a suppressor or I want to hunt.

Solution 1: I either have the barrel cut down and threaded, or I purchase a new rifle to fulfill these needs. Either way, I assume I am looking at a substantial outlay of funds.

Scenario 2: I purchase the 20" and decide I want to shoot longer distances.

Solution 2: With this scenario, I assume that I am practicing so much anyway to be able to shoot that far that my outlay for ammunition and training probably far exceeds the cost of a new rifle anyway, so purchasing another rifle probably is a somewhat moot point. Furthermore, if I am that serious about the sport, I may at that point decide to go full custom, or perhaps get a high end factory rifle.

I'm not trying to talk myself into the 20" or out of the 24", just trying to think the situation through logically. I would appreciate your thoughts.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd also suggest investing in a few more items.

1) A torque wrench that covers 15-65 in/lb.
2) A Timney trigger.
3) Williams bottom metal.
4) A cheekrest.

The factory trigger and bottom metal are crap. While the thought of spending 350 bucks to replace the pot metal parts on a new gun might not sound appealing, you won't have to worry about the trigger shoe snapping in half, or damaging the bottom metal if you torque the stock to factory (H-S Precision) specs. If you appreciate quality parts, you won't regret it.</div></div>

Haha, this is exactly what I meant in saying this place is dangerous for me! I had done some reading about the Timney, and that is something I will probably acquire. I am planning on getting a cheekrest too. I may already have a torque wrench. My grandfather worked for Union Carbide and when he passed away, he had like 16 huge toolboxes or so packed full of high quality tools. I didn't realize how much good tools cost until I moved out on my own. And I thought firearms were an expensive hobby!

As far as the bottom metal goes, I have not done any research on that. I will have to look into it. For now, the main goal is to get the gun and shoot it. If for some reason this is just a phase and I don't stick with it long term, I don't want to have too much invested that I cannot get back. Having said that, this sounds like an upgrade I will probably want to make. Thanks for the advice!

 

[JustSaber]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njlohmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2) A Timney trigger
</div></div>

+1
Timney makes an outstanding trigger to replace that heaping pile of junk that remington stuck on the rifle.</div></div>

I have looked into them a little and I have a question: are they truly "drop in" triggers? I had read of instances where some people had issues getting the trigger to fit in the HS stock that comes with the 5R. I am not mechanically inclined, or at least don't have the workspace to do anything other than extremely basic tool work, i.e., using hammers, screwdrivers, knives, etc. Is replacing the trigger an exercise I can complete, or should I hold off and let a gunsmith do it for me?

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

The Timney trigger upgrade is pretty straightforward, but if you're not mechanically inclined it may be easier to take it to a gunsmith, and it won't cost much.

No issues with mine going in the factory 5R stock.

I had to use pliers to bend the bolt release tab into the proper position. You'll also want to make sure the trigger is centered in the trigger guard when installing the stock. The shoe is a little wider, and the trigger won't reset properly if it's rubbing against the side of the trigger guard.

Click here for a .PDF file of the installation instructions.

I have the 1.5 pound version in mine, but I wouldn't recommend that light of a pull if you plan on hunting with it.

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustSaber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I definitely have an addictive personality, which combined with a tendency towards perfectionism and poor impulse control (read poor funds management practices), this forum is extremely dangerous for me</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustSaber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scenario 1: I purchase the 24" and decide I want a suppressor or I want to hunt.

Solution 1: I either have the barrel cut down and threaded, or I purchase a new rifle to fulfill these needs. Either way, I assume I am looking at a substantial outlay of funds.

Scenario 2: I purchase the 20" and decide I want to shoot longer distances.

Solution 2: With this scenario, I assume that I am practicing so much anyway to be able to shoot that far that my outlay for ammunition and training probably far exceeds the cost of a new rifle anyway, so purchasing another rifle probably is a somewhat moot point. Furthermore, if I am that serious about the sport, I may at that point decide to go full custom, or perhaps get a high end factory rifle.

I'm not trying to talk myself into the 20" or out of the 24", just trying to think the situation through logically. I would appreciate your thoughts.</div></div>

I have a prediction: This will not be your only rifle for very long!

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I never get tired of spending money on this stuff. The best parts are that the majority of this stuff is made right here in the US by Americans, and it holds its value well!

 

[bcpdshooter]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

Go with the 5r they are great out of the box. 24" is still very manageable in the woods. My thought is you can make the barrel shorter for around $175 with a smith if you don't like it. On the other hand a 20" rifle you will have to rebarrel it to add barrel length which will be somewhere around $500 or so. The choice should be easy at this point. Plus the 5r I shot is a hammer for a factory rifle with factory ammo and I have not hears anything bad from anyone who has purchased one. Buy the 5r install what you already have and start shooting, as you see other upgrades you want add them as your finances allow.

 

[tc69]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

+1 for the 5r I set one up for my boss, this thing is unbelievable for a factory gun it shoots factory loads as good as my 700p shoots hand loads. The only thing I would change is the trigger the factory one can be tuned to be ok but I would change it if I was going to do much paper punching with it.

 

[JustSaber]

Re: Fresh Meat with a Question

dbsinh20,

Thanks! That sounds like something I may be able to accomplish. I found a video on it as well; might give it a shot.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charlie Papa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a prediction: This will not be your only rifle for very long!

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I never get tired of spending money on this stuff. The best parts are that the majority of this stuff is made right here in the US by Americans, and it holds its value well!</div></div>

Haha, at least firearms are relatively liquid assets, right?



bcpdshotter and tc-La,

Thanks for the advice. I am leaning towards the 24" barrel at this time. As a friend of mine put it, I can always get rid of it (barrel), but you can't add it back, without costing a ton anyway.

Since I am looking at the 5R, I am hearing that the new ones are the "10th Anniversary Edition" of the rifle. Is there anything different about it other than the barrel stamping? I would much prefer mine to say "Mil-Spec" than that, unless there are actual features that are upgraded.

The funds have arrived, but the scope has not, so I am going to wait until I know the scope is on its way to purchase, so I have a little more time to ponder.

Thanks!