Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

[Grump]

Okay, I tried the advanced search and couldn't find a reference I remember from someone who said ADI so-and-so powder matched better than the QL DB figures for Varget.

With both Varget and 4064, and using bullets of 155 (A-Max and Nosler CCs and my last original Sierra Palmas), 168, and 175-gr, my 22-inch barrel is shooting 100-200 fps faster than QuickLoad says it should, and my primers and brass make me believe that the loads really are just a bit too hot even though the charge weights are 1 to 2 grains below published max (depending on data source).

My reference loads of LC86 M852 are right about 2600, as expected for 9 feet from the muzzle instead of the USGI 78 feet, by the way. Thus I do not believe my chrono (recently serviced at the factory) is reading too fast.

Adjusting H20 capacity requires some serious deviation from my measured capacities before velocities match.

QuickLoad allows only pre-sets of specific percentages for burn rate, so that adjustment seems a bit awkward.

So, what's the right way to approach this?

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

NotAGuru seems to be the local pro at QuickLoad. I still have only printed out the 300 or so page manual and read a little way into it. Have not even come close to the modifying the parameters yet. It seems to require a lot of playing with but seems to be the most powerful program by a longshot. There is also a modification on powder burn rate that may have more to do with lot to lot variations. I tried to put in the info on the 375/408 as NAG had said and screwed it up in not knowing how to put it into instead of replacing a bullet cartridge selection.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

In the latest version, Varget and ADI2208 give identical numbers.

It isn't just the H2O capacity you need to match. Another important number is the cross sectional area of your bore. That number can make a big difference. If your bore is tigher than what you are using in the simulation, it will produce higher pressure and higher velocities than those predicted.

 

[HotIce]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">QuickLoad allows only pre-sets of specific percentages for burn rate, so that adjustment seems a bit awkward.</div></div>
QL always stays on the safe side.
Assuming you case capacity matches the QL one, you can fine tune the burn rate.
Click the icon showed below, and fine tune the BR till you get the velocity that matches your rifle. In your case you'll want to slightly increase the BR.

Keep an eye on the pressure, as always. QL side and case/bolt evidence side.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

Does that measurement come from the actual bore, the bore with the thickness of the neck, or some other measurement?

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

burning rate factor right? Is there a large change when you modify this? I suppose I could break out my old CC kit, I used to use when blueprinting one of the race engines on the cylinder heads and deck.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">QuickLoad allows only pre-sets of specific percentages for burn rate, so that adjustment seems a bit awkward.</div></div>
QL always stays on the safe side.
Assuming you case capacity matches the QL one, you can fine tune the burn rate.
Click the icon showed below, and fine tune the BR till you get the velocity that matches your rifle. In your case you'll want to slightly increase the BR.

Keep an eye on the pressure, as always. QL side and case/bolt evidence side.
</div></div>

 

[HotIce]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

No changes are very small usually, in the 1-4% range.
Note also that such changes are not saved into the global DB, and that's a good thing.
Same powder, two different rifles (different rifling, in twist and groves), I've slightly different BRs to match velocities.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

Not to bend your ear to much but is it possible to save changes, in that they could be recalled without a change to global database?

 

[HotIce]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

Yes, what I meant, is that I intentionally do not save them (because they vary).

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

so is quickload good // great // or a pain !!!!!! to use???

Nothing is worse than having a program that you have to adjust for real life if thats the case and I am not saying it is just reading the posts.

I can load every load and get a good chronograph and tell you the reality?

I was about to buy this and the new chrono to match it now my question is

IS IT WORTH IT approx $800.00

Thanks for the input
Bill

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

Quickload is unbelievable. It is so much further than any other program I have seen or used. It has more functions than you can imagine. It does have a little learning curve but is very manageable in my opinion. I personally have not had the time to really get into it. However it is a program that I do want to learn because it is just that good. It has some basic functions that will TELL you other powders to use that will work better or function better. It will tell you down to a gnats ass if you want to go down to a gnats ass. The change powder and fill percentage is at this point my favorite portion of the program..... So far.... As to a pain in the ass? Kind of like putting together a great rifle is a pain in the ass with all the beading, putting together parts, picking out a scope, barrel, action, rings, base, etc. is a pain. In other words it is half the fun.

 

[Grump]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so is quickload good // great // or a pain !!!!!! to use???

Nothing is worse than having a program that you have to adjust for real life if thats the case and I am not saying it is just reading the posts.

I can load every load and get a good chronograph and tell you the reality?

I was about to buy this and the new chrono to match it now my question is

IS IT WORTH IT approx $800.00

Thanks for the input
Bill </div></div>
It might not be worth $800 total to me, but the only way to get to that figure in US dollars is to seriously over-buy on the Chrono. Just get the latest PACT with the built-in printer and that's all you'll really need. Add $150 + shipping for QuickLOAD and I think you're still well under $500.

That's the cost of getting an uber-premium barrel fitted to your action.

Well worth it to me.

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so is quickload good // great // or a pain !!!!!! to use???

Nothing is worse than having a program that you have to adjust for real life if thats the case and I am not saying it is just reading the posts.

I can load every load and get a good chronograph and tell you the reality?

I was about to buy this and the new chrono to match it now my question is

IS IT WORTH IT approx $800.00

Thanks for the input
Bill </div></div>
It might not be worth $800 total to me, but the only way to get to that figure in US dollars is to seriously over-buy on the Chrono. Just get the latest PACT with the built-in printer and that's all you'll really need. Add $150 + shipping for QuickLOAD and I think you're still well under $500.

That's the cost of getting an uber-premium barrel fitted to your action.

Well worth it to me. </div></div>

Thanks I am rethinking the $700.00 chrono that would also get me Giruaud trimmer??
Bill

 

[Grump]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">QuickLoad allows only pre-sets of specific percentages for burn rate, so that adjustment seems a bit awkward.</div></div>
QL always stays on the safe side.
Assuming you case capacity matches the QL one, you can fine tune the burn rate.
Click the icon showed below, and fine tune the BR till you get the velocity that matches your rifle. In your case you'll want to slightly increase the BR.

Keep an eye on the pressure, as always. QL side and case/bolt evidence side.
</div></div>

Just to be sure, that's the Burn Rate Factor, variable Ba, to be adjusted.

I like that option, as it lets me fudge without editing the data file--I tried that with a re-named one but the number I fudged was not nearly a big enough change.

Changing Varget's Ba to .6450 put me right at the obtained velocity, showing 63,428 PSI (too hot!), but my port pressure is within specs for the rifle...

We'll see if my next test loads at 45.5 really give the predicted 2807 fps (which still predicts overpressure at 61,276 PSI piezo)...

I just can't remember if my bore area fudging is intact or it'[s back to default.

 

[Grump]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

I just remembered something about QL being written for the "mildest" primers. I'm using WLRs, which are usually good for 25-35 fps more. Does that match anyone else's experience in the .308?

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Fudging QuickLOAD to Match Real Life...

Well going to try quickload after all your comments
Thanks Bill