Hunting & Fishing future duck dog!

[bigtater80]

yesterday a friend gave me his 5 month old chocolate lab puppy. I am really interested in training this dog to retrieve but have absolutely no clue where to start. She isn't afraid of water. He has a pond in his back yard with some ducks in it all white with 1 mallard and she chased that duck for an hour solid. Non stop swimming only rest was shallow water turns. She has a shit load of stamina and determination for sure. Her name is Tinka by the way. Is it too late to start training her? Any info is very much appreciated.



sitting in my living room with the boys

 

[bigtater80]

Re: future duck dog!

little better pic.



Sorry crappy cell pics.

 

[bigtater80]

Re: future duck dog!

little better pic.



Sorry crappy cell pics.

 

[EricM40]

Re: future duck dog!

Definitely not too late to start. I sent you a PM give me a call.

 

[Rhoades]

Re: future duck dog!

Like Eric said its not too late! Find her motivation, wether it be food or a certain toy or a treat or whatever, find that one thing she goes NUTS for. Once you can find that its amazing what they will do to earn it.

 

[battlestick]

Re: future duck dog!

Don't use food to train, praise only. Food makes the bowels work, praise makes the brain work. I have trained many a retriever for hunters and hunt test enthusiasts alike. Not a pro by any means, but I just sold my personal business of breeding and training labradors. I have females sitting on whistle, taking hand signals, and running blinds by 9 mo. old. As with any breed, males are a little slower to mature.

Free reference - www.dobbsdogs.com breaks it down nice and easy for you.

First step here is a must.
First, Water Dog - Author is Richard Wolters. Read it, learn it, live it. You will reference this book often. Under $20.
Second - Retriever Training Drills for Marking - Author James B Spencer
Third, Retriever Training Drills for Blind Retrieves - Author James B Spencer.

You will learn how best to progress your pup. If she looks confused, back up a little, or try a different way to teach the same concept.

Best tip for the E-collar - stay off it for a while. Only use it for something you KNOW she KNOWS. When teaching new concept - take it off of her. No punishment for learning. The only Exception to this I have found is when training to go through/over an obstacle. If the sides of the obstacle are not "hot", they will continue to go around. You will figure this out later.

Good luck, and Holler with any questions. This journey is very fun, exciting, rewarding, and builds one hell of a bond.

 

[shotgunner1526]

Re: future duck dog!

Nice looking pup.

Like the others said...It is not too late! Start with simple obedience, (Sit, Heel, Here). Throw "fun" dummies for her with no expectations/pressure, just lots of praise when she picks them up. You can't do much more until her teeth come in around 6-7 months and you can force fetch her.

My advice is to find a local trainer in the area and offer to throw dummies and clean kennels for advice/help with training.

Good luck

 

[bigtater80]

Re: future duck dog!

thanks for the tips. Got a little advice from ericm40 and Started her on force fetch today. Gave her lots of praise and think it went very well for her first day. She really is an awesome dog!

 

[blklabs]

Re: future duck dog!

You really should find a local retriever/hunt test club in your area. If you are starting a 5 month old on force fetch, you had better know what you are doing. Force fetch is pretty hard on some dogs, especially if they are young or soft dogs.

Go to Hunting Retriver Club and find a local club close to you. Almost everyone in a HRC club that I have every meet is super nice and will help you get started the right way.

I cannot stress enough how cautious I would be starting a 5 month old puppy on force fetch.

 

[bigtater80]

Re: future duck dog!

as far as the age thing goes he wasn't exactly sure and I'm thinking she is prolly closer to 6-7months. I have received good advice from someone with experience in force fetch and have looked all over the web for pointers as well. I'm keeping my sessions short and really praised the hell outta her and prolly gonna do it 4-5 times a week. She seemed to take to it pretty well and has had no change in temperament afterwards. She is really attached to me in the short time I have had her and if I sense a problem or a negative effect I would stop Cause she is a family dog as well.

 

[blklabs]

Re: future duck dog!

The point of force fetch is to teach the dog how to properly respond to pressure. A negative reaction will be encountered when done properly since you are teaching the dog how to respond to the negative pressure. You have to break the dog down and build it back up again, its more of an art then a step by step process. I have friends that have force fetched hundreds of dogs (pro trainers) and they still run across new reactions all the time. In fact one of the pros I know has gone to working force fetch with thick leather gloves because he has been bitten so many times.

It really depends on what you want the dog to do. If all you want is a dog that will swim out and pick up a bird, then it doesn't really matter if you properly force fetch it or not. If you want a dog that sits patiently until sent, marks multiple birds, and can do blinds, force fetch is the foundation of all of that.

I by all means think its great to train your own dog, but I see a lot of amateurs (myself included) that send a dog off to a pro for force fetching. I don't play in the retriever game anymore as I have found a new hobby, wwhich is why I am posting on this site.

Just my .02

 

[shotgunner1526]

Re: future duck dog!

I agree with blklabs. You would be better off sending her to a trainer or hooking up with a club in the area. FF is not something that you can bs your way through, you either get it right or you mess up a good dog.

Good Luck which ever way you go!

 

[bigtater80]

Re: future duck dog!

come on guys! Ye have little faith. Second session went very well today. This is something I want to do on my own but I got a heads up on a local trainer I'm gonna hook up with to help me. I think me and Tinka gonna do just fine.

 

[EricM40]

Re: future duck dog!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shotgunner1526</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with blklabs. You would be better off sending her to a trainer or hooking up with a club in the area. FF is not something that you can bs your way through, you either get it right or you mess up a good dog.

Good Luck which ever way you go! </div></div>

I disagree anyone who dedicates time can train a dog including Force Fetch. I had never done it and I fully trained my dog. We started with the basics sit, here, stay, ect.

When I moved to force fetch I went a little too fast and had to back up a step, but it was a tough and rewarding experience. By the way even the pros had to start somewhere, so don't think you are unable to do it. I started at 5 months (male) and was done at 6.5 months. I did it 4 days a week for 15 min each day. Do not wear the dog out and constantly praise.

Definitely train and make sure she knows a command before using the ecollar. Even though my dog is trained, I always keep the e collar on him. Even a trained dog needs a correction now and then, just like I do.

I made this the other night for you, take a look at it if you need more info I can do another one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSk5RM5fpZk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

iPhone videos are not the best.

Cheers.

 

[blklabs]

Re: future duck dog!

Eric,
My intention wasn't to say he couldn't do it, but to be very careful and consider whether that was the right option for him and the dog. I have taken a dog through force fetch as well and I had to take it slow and careful, luckily I had some people that I could lean on for advice.

What I was trying to convey was that my recommendation is to think about having a pro complete force fetch, if he decides to it himself, be very careful, patient, and try to find someone that can advise him on how to proceed.

Best of luck on whatever he decides.

Jonathan

 

[EricM40]

Re: future duck dog!

I didn't mean to offend. I'm sorry if I did. I feel you get a better bond when you do it yourself and more respect from your dog. Yes he's gotta take it slow especially with a female. My male is tougher than a brick shithouse. I was a member of the southeast Drahthaar chapter for a while and got a ton of advice from them about it.

Definitely find what she likes to play with after training. My dog loves a big rope toy or rope in general. Whether it be tug-a-war or just letting him eat it. I made the mistake of leaving a briefcase on his kennel this morning and he ate a hole in it. I knew he does that if we leave stuff up there, but I forgot to grab it on my way out. He just wants to pull it in there with him, and pulls till he does. I guess he got bored with it. Keep us posted on how it goes with your lab.

 

[Bryan27]

Re: future duck dog!

My suggestion would be to stop force fetch immediately and start from the bottom up to make sure there isn't anything missing with the pre-FF basics. Sit, here, heel, etc. Has the dog been collar conditioned yet, thouroughly? If not, how do you plan on transitioning from the ear to remote force as in force to pile, enroute force? FF isn't something that you want to be doing while you're teaching your dog to sit, you want FF to be the only thing you are doing otherwise you are going to add more stress than a dog can handle and ruin it. FF also isn't something that you want to do part of the way and then resume later after you found out that some of the basics weren't where they needed to be. I'd suggest ordering Evan Grahams set of books, Smartworks and Smartfetch, they're about $60-75 all together probably and at least you will be following a proven program that is up to date and well thought out. The author, and many experienced users of his program are readily available on the web on several forums if you run into issues which you'll find to be very helpfull during FF. Best of luck to you and your pup, if I can be of any help just ask away. I don't know everything about retriever training and will tell you straight if it's something I don't know, but I have worked with a lot of retrievers.

 

[bigtater80]

Re: future duck dog!

I'm gonna follow through with this! I'm going to train her myself. I have the help and advice I need and we are gonna succeed. Sorry if this offends anyone and I understand everyone has their own methods.

Ericm40
Thanks for the video! Guiness is a sharp lookin dog.

 

[EricM40]

Re: future duck dog!

That's good to hear, just remember that all advice is just that, <span style="font-weight: bold">ADVICE</span>. You will do a good job.

 

[blklabs]

Re: future duck dog!

I never even saw your post pirogue joe about having a local trainer help you out. Thats perfect, good luck! You will be a proud man when that first duck has been retrieved.

Eric, no offense taken, just felt I didn't communicate effectively with what I was trying to convey.

 

[blklabs]

Re: future duck dog!

oh and +100 on Smartworks and SmartFetch, dang good books.

 

[bigtater80]

Re: future duck dog!

thanks blklab!

 

[Bryan27]

Re: future duck dog!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point of force fetch is to teach the dog how to properly respond to pressure. A negative reaction will be encountered when done properly since you are teaching the dog how to respond to the negative pressure. You have to break the dog down and build it back up again, its more of an art then a step by step process. I have friends that have force fetched hundreds of dogs (pro trainers) and they still run across new reactions all the time. In fact one of the pros I know has gone to working force fetch with thick leather gloves because he has been bitten so many times.

</div></div>

This is worth repeating, imo. Some people think FF is cruel or that FF is a way to mask what isn't already in the dog, both of which couldn't be further from the truth. All FF does is teach the dog how to positively deal with pressure and gives you a tool to build upon that understanding. It doesn't teach a dog to fetch, it obligates a dog to fetch and when done properly has no negative effect on the joy a retriever gets out of bringing a bird to hand. FF IS more an art than a science that you can just go step by step through and get predictable results each step of the way. My female lab was tough for me to FF, not only because she was the first one I'd FF'd, but also because she is the type of dog that internalizes pressure and will shut down. I'd rather have a dog that tries to bite me than one that shuts down........when it comes to FF anyway.

FF is definitely something that you can do yourself, even better if you have someone with experience that can help you through it. The main thing is to always remember what the objective is, don't ever give the dog more than she can handle in a session, if it's not going right stop and try again later. One peice of advice that you probably already know, but I'll say anyway, is that with FF and dog training in general, timing is everything. When you exert and release pressure or the exact moment you give praise is how you communicate with your dog. When your dog realizes what she needs to do in order to turn the pressure off and the ONLY way to do it, you can add more variables like distance and resistance. At some point, she will be dragging your ass across the ground hanging from her collar with her ear between your fingers to get to her bumper.......that's when it's time for the ecollar and the point that tells you that she gets it.