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GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!! 6mm Creedmoor

A10XRIFLE

A10XRIFLE

Gunny Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 26, 2002
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N Kansas City, MO
www.gaprecision.com
Im starting a a Match Rifle Idea based off our GAP-10 Platform with the new Rifle length system. 6mm Creedmoor!!!. .243 is to long to work givin the length of the mag, the Creedmore case is perfect and brass is really easy to get. The new Hornady 105 BTHP match bullet has a BC of .535 and it should easily be able to make 3000 FPS with 43 grains of 4350 out of a 23" barrel. Possibly 3050 FPS. so 7.0-7.4 mils to 1000 out of a handy gasser that will hold 1/2 MOA. Me thinks this might be a game changer!!!!!

Ill keep this thread updated on the progress, Have Dies and Bullets already and the rifle is already in the works.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

That sounds like a good "everything" gun George, a match gun, a deer gun, vermin, if a guy shoots tactical matches and needs a gas gunner...the list of great applications is endless.

cant wait to see pics, and actually I was going to send y'all a gun last week when I was home on leave, sorta glad I didn't after hearing this. The brand new baby kinda took up too much time and couldn't make it to the UPS store...maybe its good luck.

C_K
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmm...... necking-down 6.5CM brass?</div></div>

Yep, no change other than the necking to 6mm. Hornady made me some dies a while back and I already have a light deer rifle in the caliber. Its so perfect for the gas rifle, I cannot believe I didnt think of it sooner. Should be ready to shoot by Thursday.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

It sounds interesting.

How does it compare to the 6mmAR?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!


That's a good idea.
A 6x47Lapua but with a large primer.
6's run better out of gassers than do 6.5's anyway. I'd shoot one of these.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It sounds interesting.

How does it compare to the 6mmAR?</div></div>

Not even in the same league. 6mm AR has a case capacity of 33 grains way too small. Its great in an AR-15. max vel with a 105 is 2750. This will do 3050 im guessing
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Holy hell! That would be a SCORTCHING round for the GAP-10 (or any .308-based AR-platform rifle for that matter)!!

The Berger 115gr Match Target VLD might also be an impressive round if you can go up to the faster 1:7 twist and depending on how fast you can push it...G7 BC of 0.279 (G1 of 0.545)!!

Very interested in this idea!!!
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Subscribing for this, I'm wanting to get an ar-10 and this may be it. I'm curious what the expected barrel life will be though.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im starting a a Match Rifle Idea based off our GAP-10 Platform with the new Rifle length system. 6mm Creedmoor!!!. .243 is to long to work givin the length of the mag, the Creedmore case is perfect and brass is really easy to get. The new Hornady 105 BTHP match bullet has a BC of .535 and it should easily be able to make 3000 FPS with 43 grains of 4350 out of a 23" barrel. Possibly 3050 FPS. so 7.0-7.4 mils to 1000 out of a handy gasser that will hold 1/2 MOA. Me thinks this might be a game changer!!!!!

Ill keep this thread updated on the progress, Have Dies and Bullets already and the rifle is already in the works. </div></div>

I haven't done any side by side comparison but, wouldn't that be pretty darn close to a 6xc?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A 6x47Lapua but with a large primer.</div></div>
Not exactly?
6.5CM loads runs under 60,000 PSI, 6.5x47 Lapua operates at 63,900PSI. CM has a edge in capacity, 53.0gr vs about 48gr.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im starting a a Match Rifle Idea based off our GAP-10 Platform with the new Rifle length system. 6mm Creedmoor!!!. .243 is to long to work givin the length of the mag, the Creedmore case is perfect and brass is really easy to get. The new Hornady 105 BTHP match bullet has a BC of .535 and it should easily be able to make 3000 FPS with 43 grains of 4350 out of a 23" barrel. Possibly 3050 FPS. so 7.0-7.4 mils to 1000 out of a handy gasser that will hold 1/2 MOA. Me thinks this might be a game changer!!!!!

Ill keep this thread updated on the progress, Have Dies and Bullets already and the rifle is already in the works. </div></div>

I haven't done any side by side comparison but, wouldn't that be pretty darn close to a 6xc?</div></div>




Really close, but 6.5 Creedmore Brass is a ton cheeper and easier to get. no fireforning just run it through the 6mm Creedmore Die and done.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

I like this. I was just debating how and what I wanted to try out in a new AR platform. I guess this sets that straight for me.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A 6x47Lapua but with a large primer.</div></div>
Not exactly?
6.5CM runs under 60,000 PSI, 6.5x47 Lapua operates at 63,900PSI.</div></div>

I dont think the 3,900 PSI is going to make a difference. The case capacity will allow the 6mm Creedmore to obtain alot better speed at lower pressure, which is whats needed to make the AR-10 types work. (gas volume at lower pressure)
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why won't 243 work in the mag? </div></div>

It will work but you have to shove the bullet way past the neck/shoulder juntion. Badd Ju Ju
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Already ordered a reamer, dies and everything else for one
smile.gif


I think it would be tough to beat! Especially with a light weight bolt carrier and adjustable gas block..
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

The 260 has a similar drawback in the AR10 platform, both the 243 and 260 are short action rounds and will "work" in the AR10. You have the same issue of needing to seat the bullet too far into the neck to feed or seating the bullet well beyond mag length to get the desired performance.

Sounds like a 6mm/6.5 Creedmore would be a GREAT solution.

Kirk R
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!


In terms of running in a big chassis AR, what's the difference between 6mmRemington and 6Creedmore?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In terms of running in a big chassis AR, what's the difference between 6mmRemington and 6Creedmore? </div></div>If I had to guess, I would say it's probably too long. COAL spec for 6mm Rem is 2.825, which is over AR-10 may length already, before you start seating bullets worth running.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

In an AR-10 I think you'd be hard pressed to run anything heavier than a 75 gain 6mm bullet.
Plus there's no guarantee it would feed well from the magazine.
6mm Remington is based off the x57 Mauser case.
It is quite a bit longer than the Creedmore or .308 family of cases.
Lots of internal volume but also lots of taper.
With long range bullets the 6mm Rem is better in a Mauser or long action.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Dammit, George! Are you trying to put me in the poor house?! UPS hasn't even dropped my .260 yet, and now you've got me wanting another one! Are you bringing it to Texas this weekend?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

This is why Hornady developed this case- to feed from a magazine fed rifle and do it like bearings in butter. The popularity of this combo will explode... Especially in a gas gun.

pardon the pun
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

No. The difference in overall case length between these two rounds is .200". Back off the amount and dimension of the new 105 Hornady hpbt George plans for, and you'd be right about at 6cmrcoal.....with more neck actually. If the neck is good a little more is good.

In either event the gun George is building will be attractive if not entirely original.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In an AR-10 I think you'd be hard pressed to run anything heavier than a 75 gain 6mm bullet.
Plus there's no guarantee it would feed well from the magazine.
</div></div>

It Runs the 105's and 115's just fine, I dialed the gasport in and at .067 it runs nice and smoothe. Feeds like greased lightning. Headin to the range this evening. Ill chrono the loads im playing with.

#1 is a 105 Hornady .535 BC with 43 grains H4350

#2 is a 115 dtac .580 BC with 42 grains H4350
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

It looks like my search for an ar10 may be over soon:)
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Sounds very interesting. Will be watching this closely.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Think this could possibly be my first AR10 build.
George you said you have this for a lightweight deer gun,any chance of pics and info on that one??
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

George, what is the difference between running the 6mmCM vs the 6.5mmCM in the GAP-10? Any drawback to running the factory 6.5mmCM load?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

I built one similar a couple month or two ago with a Brux barrel cut to 26" and a 2" over gas tube chambered in 6X47 Lapua. So far I've only fired for function tuning the gas port diameter but it's cycling very sweet right now. Tried the 88gr Berger VLD bullet and I had to polish out the barrel extension on the bottom two lug ways as that needle-point of the bullet would wedge in the openings for the lugs. All other bullets loaded/chambered without a hitch and the recoil impulse is pretty sweet.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Karux</div><div class="ubbcode-body">George, what is the difference between running the 6mmCM vs the 6.5mmCM in the GAP-10? Any drawback to running the factory 6.5mmCM load?

</div></div>

too SLOW only makes 2640 with the 140, makes it a 308 Balisticly with little recoil.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Wow just busted my bubble, was thinking about that 6.5CM upper!!
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

LOL, OK its going a little better than I thought, Rifle is Complete, and Zero'ed. the 23" Barrel Makes 3130fps with the 105 and 43 grains 4350. Its a little warm, cycled fine but the the primers were cradering a touch. Guys thats puts the 1000 yard hold at 6.7 mils. Ill drop the load to 42.5 and it will still be in the 3080fps arena. Thats puts it at an exact 7.0 Mill hold at 1000. I shot 2 groups both at 1/2 MOA or better.

The 115 Dtac's did well got 2980 with 42 grains 4350, dropping it to 41.5 at 2950 and thats puts it at 7.3 mils to 1000.


This is going to be an awsome setup. Im going to get Hornady to set up and make a run of Dies and possibly Brass correctly headstamped.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow just busted my bubble, was thinking about that 6.5CM upper!!</div></div>

If you hadload it with the 130 Bergers or 123 Hornady Amaxes it will be alot better.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

If im gonna hand load ima shoot that rocket gun you are building right now!!!
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the 23" Barrel Makes 3130fps with the 105 and 43 grains 4350. Its a little warm, cycled fine but the the primers were cradering a touch. Guys thats puts the 1000 yard hold at 6.7 mils. Ill drop the load to 42.5 and it will still be in the 3080fps arena. Thats puts it at an exact 7.0 Mill hold at 1000. I shot 2 groups both at 1/2 MOA or better.

The 115 Dtac's did well got 2980 with 42 grains 4350, dropping it to 41.5 at 2950 and thats puts it at 7.3 mils to 1000. </div></div>

YIKES!!! That's just plain nuts and I LIKE IT!!!
smile.gif
 
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