GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

[mr_hurricane]

Hello All,

Thought I'd share this story.

2 Weeks ago I recieved my first real precision rifle. I had thought about having one made by a real gunsmith for sometime, and eventually decided on an M40A3 as I am an former Marine... why not right.

After about a month of research I decide that this company G.A. Precision seem like the people to get it from.. so I call them and order one up.

so a GAP M40A3 it will be.

The rifle eventually comes, and I get some good .308 and take it to the local range, Snoqualmie Valley Rifle Club, Washington State.

I broke the rifle in using the instructions recieved from G.A Precision... and then put about 40 rounds through it.

I was amazed, at 100 yards, rounds where going through the same hole.

I would have to have a frigging seizure to make this rifle shoot more than a .5 group. my best group after the subtraction of .308 that day was .19. And I just know the basics of shooting really courtesy of a Parris Island PMI, am am not super shooter or anything like that, just a simple country boy.

So... I do what anyone else would do... go home and tell all my local marine friends and fellow shooters about this monster.

So today we are all supposed to go shoot it again, because they dont beleieve me.

Now... I dont care if you admit it or not. But I cannot be the first person to recieve a rifle like this and stay up all night in the man cave playing with it.

and there is nothing wrong with that, just make sure, that you fully secure the front swivel to the rifle.

I picked up the rifle by its sling to run out of the garage to pick my friends up and .... all the sudden felt the sling go slack......

shit shit shit.... thats what went through my mind, damn noooooooooooooooooooooo shit shit shit nooooooooooo

I had failed to ensure that the front sling swivel was properly seated.

I yank up on the sling in my hand hoping to salvage the hard to get M8541 on the rifle thinking in a split second, that I can always send the rifle back to G.A. Precision to get fixed.

I even hopped i could get the rifle high enough so that the bbl would miss the deck and just swing forward.

The bbls on these rifles, have a nice ring to them when they strike a garage floor, that is covered with unpadded home depot carpet.

My friends all told me to kiss the groups goodby and I drove to the range with this awful feeling in my stomach.

We get to the range, and the drop seems to have had NO affect at all.

Myself and other former marine friend both shot .25 groups or less, occasionaly throwing one wild, meaning not touching the other shots, but we knew we did something wrong each time.

The third shooter was a first timer, and after 9 rounds was shooting gorups less than an inch. (hey his very first time with a rifle at all)

1. always check your sling mounts lol.

2. The USMC, designed one hard ass rifle here, and the guys at G.A. Precision obviously put it together right!.

oh yeah....

GAP will be getting two new orders soon from these two ass clowns at the range with me today.

I am amazed that bbl struck the deck like it did and the rifle still shoots like a laser.

these things are addicting, i look at rack guns now as well... a complete waste of money.

 

[JRose]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Pics for the dreamers please...

 

[19Scout77]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Flushcups suck ass!!!

Had the same thing happen last weekend, but thank god it was while I was throwing it over my shoulder so I caught it under my arm before the 5-25 took a gravel bath!

Now I ALWAYS double check the flushcups!

 

[mr_hurricane]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

YES YES

I have a one year old kid and after this....


I will wake up at night and check the swing swivels, flush cups I guess they are called, on my rifle more than him.

really a nice gun.

lol

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Where are you located...we have a LR shoot coming this weekend...16-17 if you want to come out. PM me for info

 

[lanwickum]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

A well made gun can really give you the warm fuzzies

Mine has some scares on it and keeps on shooting.
Have fun with it and be safe.

 

[OFIS]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

so, is the moral of this story to stick to swivel studs and avoid flush cups?

 

[mp45acp]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

YES

 

[19Scout77]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

To me, flushcups on the side of the stock place the rifle in a much more comfortable position when carrying a slung rifle.

 

[Graham]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Studs pull out often, too: ask anyone, with hard use on a McMillan, whether the rear stud is still there.

 

[858]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

I had a similar problem with a GAP installed flush cup. The material around the flush cup was higher than the cup preventing the QD from correctly seating. I don't think anyone checked the flush before shipping me the rifle. I tried 4 different brands of QD studs before relieving the stock material.

 

[cyclone]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Studs pull out often, too: ask anyone, with hard use on a McMillan, whether the rear stud is still there. </div></div>

mine came out after the first few shots with a Accu-pod.

 

[mr_hurricane]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a similar problem with a GAP installed flush cup. The material around the flush cup was higher than the cup preventing the QD from correctly seating. I don't think anyone checked the flush before shipping me the rifle. I tried 4 different brands of QD studs before relieving the stock material.

</div></div>

The problem was not with the flush cups or the GAP rifle, or the stock but rather the user lol.

 

[m1garand30064]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

This does not surprise me that much. From what I have heard about GA precision I would expect nothing less out of them. Also think about what a rifle being carried by a soldier is expected to take. Dont they have a 3 meter drop test that a rifle has to pass?

I dont discount how impressive that is though. To drop the rifle on concrete and here the barrel ringing and still shoot those kind of groups is amazing. I am starting to save for one!!

How long did you have to wait for the rifle? Please post pics!

 

[rogers0311]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

I have personally beat the shit out of my work m40a3. Nothing like trudging through the woods with the rifle T-boned across my ruck, slamming into trees, falling down left and right, then falling backwards in exhaustion to rest for a few minutes, and hearing the sound of the rifle slamming into a tree. The best part...after a solid week of this, shooting a UKD and scoring a perfect 100.

So yes, I would agree that the Marine Corps designed a pretty tough rifle. Im looking forward to my GAP build.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a similar problem with a GAP installed flush cup. The material around the flush cup was higher than the cup preventing the QD from correctly seating. I don't think anyone checked the flush before shipping me the rifle. I tried 4 different brands of QD studs before relieving the stock material.

</div></div>
Lets be clear. GAP does not install the Flush cups. If there was a problem with the Cup it came that way from Mcmillan or Manners.

Alot of the time its not the cup its the cheep Chineese made swivels that dont fit correctly or debris that gets inside the hole.

 

[858]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a similar problem with a GAP installed flush cup. The material around the flush cup was higher than the cup preventing the QD from correctly seating. I don't think anyone checked the flush before shipping me the rifle. I tried 4 different brands of QD studs before relieving the stock material.

</div></div>
Lets be clear. GAP does not install the Flush cups. If there was a problem with the Cup it came that way from Mcmillan or Manners.

Alot of the time its not the cup its the cheep Chineese made swivels that dont fit correctly or debris that gets inside the hole. </div></div>

George, I don't know who installed the flush cups but it was a complete GAP rifle built by you and purchased from you. I tried QD studs bought from TIS, McMillan, VLTOR, and another brand that's name escapes me at the moment. The stock texture was higher than the flush cup, that was the issue. Once the material was relieved the flush cup worked just fine.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

I have a FWT Winchester in a McMillan and the rear stud pulled out. I was working with it, practicing standing position, and it pulled out bigger'n life.

I was going to post here and ask if there is a solution to the problem short of sending it back to the factory. That is the only complaint I have with a McMillan and I have several.

david

 

[dbltap45acp]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

858, George and his crew build the rifles, not the stocks.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltap45acp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">858, George and his crew build the rifles, not the stocks. </div></div>

Ya think? I won't be buying another new McMillan stock personally. They are sub-par these days and are not advancing at all. The QC sucks as well. ....and I have several. Manners builds a superior system with better QC, Customer service and turn around time. Thats why I'm in the process of having several.

That said, I would have to agree with 858 on commenting that it was a GAP rifle. I would have thought that they would check everything , EVERYTHING, out when they send out a $3000+ rifle.

I have had 3 GAP's built and not one of them I have been 100% happy with. They do shoot, but the QC slipped a bit, IMHO, as they got busier.

If I was to mention the half assed finishing job on my last rifle, would I get jumped over it? I think they send them out. So does that mean they shouldn't be held accountable for it at final assembly?. It's all good, ARP refinished it for me.

 

[858]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

I don't know why it would matter who installed the flush cup, the rifle was a GAP, not a Manners or McMillan. For what its worth I found out about the problematic flush cup when the sling popped out and the rifle almost hit the deck.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

So if you order a rifle complete with a scope, the rifle builder should also make sure the scope tracks and holds zero as well?

Where do you draw the line from the outside vendors
work/products (which you ask for), and who takes the responsibility?

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apollo11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if you order a rifle complete with a scope, the rifle builder should also make sure the scope tracks and holds zero as well?

Where do you draw the line from the outside vendors
work/products (which you ask for), and who takes the responsibility?
</div></div>

Well since you brought it up. If he is a dealer and can provide that service, yes, yes I would send him the scope back. There are other avenues for that though.

If I order a complete rifle from a competent gunsmith I expect the QC to be up to snuff.

 

[858]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apollo11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if you order a rifle complete with a scope, the rifle builder should also make sure the scope tracks and holds zero as well?

Where do you draw the line from the outside vendors
work/products (which you ask for), and who takes the responsibility?
</div></div>

I didn't order a rifle complete with a scope so I would draw the line at what I actually ordered.

I didn't think my original comments would get so much reply.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

You dared open your mouth that you weren't happy with something that GAP sent to you.

It happens all the time. You are only able to voice your opinion on the approved "bash list". If you bring up GAP, Premier, Badger, and several others... the demons come out and slap the back of your hand and tell you your out of line.

858, I will PM this list as I don't know you have the secret handshake yet.

 

[Cartman]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Put me down with the people that expect GAP to make sure a complete rifle they sell is GTG including checking the swivels. If it were my money I would flip out if GAP essentially told me I was barking up the wrong tree in the situation described above.

Since there are bound to be Kool-Aide drinkers who disagree let me just state ahead of time that you're nucking futs.

 

[cypriss32]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

First off I am NOT a Cool aid drinker, BUT.........

Anything, I mean ANYTHING wrong with the stock (except) bedding is the problem of the stock builder NOT the smith. Lets get that shit right RIGHT NOW.

Anything to do with metal work is the smiths deal. And his warrenty and all that shit.

Smith is not in charge of a stock QC, the stock maker is. The stock maker is not responable for the metal work QC, the smith it......

Enough said...

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Wait a second Adam, you can't tell me that if you don't have hands on the project at all, that you wouldn't expect a once over on the equipment used in your build.

Don't get me wrong, I think that there should be some type of QC from the stock builder, but if you had GAP (just because they were used already) order EVERYTHING for the build, they shouldn't do some type of QC.

Why is it that when they get a bad barrel from Rock or anyone else for that matter, they don't have you send the barreled action to the manufacturer of the barrel? They have you send it back to them and they take care of the work in house. Now I'm sure they get the barrel maker to replace it. May have nothing to do with the machining of the barrel, but they make it right for you at no cost. Why shouldn't they make it right for you on the stock, they ARE the end supplier and you pay more than what they do for that stock.

Now, if you send them the stock for your build, I do, or you send them the barrel blank for your build, I do, bottom metal, me again, base, so on and so forth, then the person sending all that gear is the one who would be responsible for that gear. I couldn't expect the builder to warranty a barrel that I bought off of here and sent to them. UNLESS the machining was flawed that is.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>
I didn't order a rifle complete with a scope so I would draw the line at what I actually ordered.
I didn't think my original comments would get so much reply. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/quote]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

So if you order a rifle complete with a scope, the rifle builder should also make sure the scope tracks and holds zero as well?

Where do you draw the line from the outside vendors
work/products (which you ask for), and who takes the responsibility?
</div></div>

I didn't order a rifle complete with a scope so I would draw the line at what I actually ordered.

I didn't think my original comments would get so much reply. </div></div>

I’m not saying you ordered a scope with your gun, what I am saying is that a scope is an example of a third party vendor supplying the part. The warranty of that piece; partly because it is requested by you the customer, and also because someone else is making it, rest with the manufacture.

If you were insisting that the “complete” package be 100% covered by any builder I think you would be getting the same push back from people, not just because you are having issue with GAP, or Badger or Premier. As was stated above, the work the smith provides is the work he needs to be responsible for. When you order a custom gun, the smith can’t choose what you spec out, and where those parts come from. If you provide the parts, what then? When does the responsibility shift, and outside vendors brought into the picture?

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apollo11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>
I didn't order a rifle complete with a scope so I would draw the line at what I actually ordered.
I didn't think my original comments would get so much reply. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apollo11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if you order a rifle complete with a scope, the rifle builder should also make sure the scope tracks and holds zero as well?

Where do you draw the line from the outside vendors
work/products (which you ask for), and who takes the responsibility?
</div></div>

I didn't order a rifle complete with a scope so I would draw the line at what I actually ordered.

I didn't think my original comments would get so much reply. </div></div>

I’m not saying you ordered a scope with your gun, what I am saying is that a scope is an example of a third party vendor supplying the part. The warranty of that piece; partly because it is requested by you the customer, and also because someone else is making it, rest with the manufacture.

If you were insisting that the “complete” package be 100% covered by any builder I think you would be getting the same push back from people, not just because you are having issue with GAP, or Badger or Premier. As was stated above, the work the smith provides is the work he needs to be responsible for. When you order a custom gun, the smith can’t choose what you spec out, and where those parts come from. If you provide the parts, what then? When does the responsibility shift, and outside vendors brought into the picture? </div></div>

I covered all over your questions on what happens if you provide gear to the smith.

If you have a Smith build you a rifle from the ground up, they do all of the purchasing at the reduced cost that they get, you pay the markup and they directly profit from it, they are the first line complaint taker when something is wrong. PERIOD

When you buy a pair of jeans from a department store, they have bad stitching that you find when you get home. Do you contact the factory in Cambodia where the 8 yo kid did the work, or do you go take them back to WalMart and let them deal with it?

GAP has the business pull and know how with direct lines of communication to get these things fixed a whole helluva lot faster than any guy off the street. These big name vendors know this. Case in point. If I order 1 stock from Manners myself and the same day I have a big name buyer order me a stock from Manners, which one is gonna get done first? I will put money on the fact that the big name buyer gets his gear first.

Repair work goes the same way.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a similar problem with a GAP installed flush cup. The material around the flush cup was higher than the cup preventing the QD from correctly seating. I don't think anyone checked the flush before shipping me the rifle. I tried 4 different brands of QD studs before relieving the stock material.

</div></div>

Lets Try this Again <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "I had a similar problem with a GAP installed flush cup."</div></div>


I am stating that we do not install the flush cups. Thats it. dont read into it further than that.

There are lots of different makers of flush cup swivels, over 10. They probably varry a bit. Both McMillan and Manners have a swivel on a piece of strap that they push into the cup and yank on. Call Dick Davis and Manners both and ask them about how they test them. We also have the same thing. My point being that if you have a swivel that does not fit it may be the swivel or debris in the hole.

As far as us being responsible for the whole rifle. That goes without saying. But that being said We cannot control what they produce. For instance we get complaints on the marble or camo not being as neat as a customer expects it. We cannot control this and wont ever be able to. If the stock ever fails both McMillan and Manners waranty it for life. Customers have the option to send it back to the stock maker or to us.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GAP has the business pull and know how with direct lines of communication to get these things fixed a whole helluva lot faster than any guy off the street. These big name vendors know this. Case in point. If I order 1 stock from Manners myself and the same day I have a big name buyer order me a stock from Manners, which one is gonna get done first? I will put money on the fact that the big name buyer gets his gear first.

Repair work goes the same way.</div></div>



The time getting it fixed would be no different. Individuls probably have more priority as you guys are the ones giving them direct market feedback. Just like this post here. It is better for them to keep you guys happy. McMillan and Manners both consider that type of thig top priority, For those of you who think I get special favors for them on turnarround are dreaming. I wait just as long as all of you I can assure you that.

Funny thing here, This thread makes it look like the fluch cups that come on GAP rifles fail all the time. which is not the case, I have had a total of "ONE" ever returned for a flush cup that didnt work properly. It was returned and taken care of inside a Week.

If there are alot of them not working properly, they are not calling us about them, which seems strange to me. Just got back from ASC where 40 guys packed their rifles in the mountains for 2 days more than 1/2 of them had Flush cups I didnt see any rifles falling to the ground. ???


One last thing, the notion that becouse we are busy that our QC is bad. Actully thats not the truth at all. There are 3 more sets of eyes on the rifles going out now. Its very rare that a rifle comes back. When it was just Eric and I 8 years ago we got 1-2 back a year tops. We still get about the same return rate now with 5 times the rifles shipping. I believe thats a good thing. I intive anyone in or visiting the KC area to stop by and visit the shop. Im very proud of what we do here I dont mind sharing that.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Quoting myself from up above"

"Case in point. If I order 1 stock from Manners myself and the same day I have a big name buyer order me a stock from Manners, which one is gonna get done first? I will put money on the fact that the big name buyer gets his gear first."
No, this is exactly how it works.... I just used Manners as a high volume example.

"I know, I've seen me do it"

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Russ, you get a cup of coffee yet this morning.

If you order them the same day somone would have to get theirs first, "Luck of the draw" was it the same stock, both McMillan and Manners run shells (stock types) in batches which also affects turnarround. Unless there is 2 months difference in turnarround I dont see your point.

 

[OFIS]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

man im sorry i hijacked this thread onto the flush cup debate...

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

I'm just making a comment on something I have persoanl experience with George.

My point is specifically that if you as the owner of GAP calls Manners, McMillan, Badger, yadda yadda and say that you need something fixed and that your not happy with something they did, they are gonna just through their own ass to make you happy, not so much if myself or 858 or any other average guy calls.

I would hazard a guess that you ARE one of the main "volume" buyers for these companies and you would have that pull. This is why I would start with calling you guys first.

....and yes, coffee has been consumed.

 

[rogers0311]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Let me just add something...there are cheap knock off flush cups on the market, I had a set on my work gun. Incidentally, one popped out when I had the rifle slung. Lesson learned. I now use quality flush cups and I have not had a problem. I cannot blame the Marine Corps Precision Rifle shop for QC, nor can I blame McMillan. I can blame myself for buying cheap shit. Luckily, Marine Corps built m40a3 are built to take some serious abuse and the rifle did not lose its zero, nor was there any damage.

 

[858]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are lots of different makers of flush cup swivels, over 10. They probably varry a bit. Both McMillan and Manners have a swivel on a piece of strap that they push into the cup and yank on. Call Dick Davis and Manners both and ask them about how they test them. We also have the same thing. My point being that if you have a swivel that does not fit it may be the swivel or debris in the hole.</div></div>
I don't own any Chinese swivels, I've already stated who I bought them from.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there are alot of them not working properly, they are not calling us about them, which seems strange to me.</div></div>

I tried to call you last year about it but didn't get a return phone call. I fixed the flush cup myself because it was easier than paying the shipping like I had to do when you sent me an incorrectly converted WSM magazine (that was also the incorrect capacity). As I recall I raised a question of QC back then but you simply deleted my PM without response.



This problem is self correcting though.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I tried to call you last year about it but didn't get a return phone call. I fixed the flush cup myself because it was easier than paying the shipping like I had to do when you sent me an incorrectly converted WSM magazine (that was also the incorrect capacity). As I recall I raised a question of QC back then but you simply deleted my PM without response.
</div></div>

I find this had to believe as there are 3 people here answering the phone, Im not going to say your not telling the truth but calls rarly go unanswered.

I dont recall the PM I may have deleted it by mistake as I have done that a time or 2. The WSM magazines are 3-7 round. They dont fall the same as 308, If we sent you the wrong mag it was a error in the shipment, a mistake. We will gladly pay for the shipping.

We service over 2000+ rifles a year + Full builds, as abouve im not saying a mistake is never made. Im sorry you feel so strongly that we did you wrong. Its not the norm.

 

[858]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

I don't feel very strongly about this, it probably just seems that way because I'm not letting blame get placed on unresponsible parties.

I appreciate your offer but it would have been more meaningful a year ago. I've already corrected the problem and sold the rifle. The new owner is quite happy, it is/was a fine rifle.

 

[palma]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Interesting little thread. Anyone think the McMillan warranty (or anyone else's warranty for that matter) would cover the cost of, for example, a new S&B after a stud or a cup pulled free from the stock causing the scope to break upon impact? Odds say no.

 

[Graham]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Russ brings up a good point, and I don't disagree with his point of view as a consumer. But as Lindy once told me - correctly and wisely I might add - it's an imperfect world. Sure, in an ideal world all 3K builds would be perfect. But that isn't always a realistic expectation - by either party. I've had the odd rifle problem. But I've also bought new cars that turned out to have a scratch or dent on them. The question isn't what should have happened, and who to blame, it's what the vendor is prepared to do for you if the product isn't satisfactory to you. George and Moon just did a repair for me, on 'their' build, the result of manufacturing issues outside of their control. Did they charge me for it? Of course. Did I get a deal on the unexpected work? Sure. Do I have a problem with paying them to do that? No. Now we're all happy: I don't expect them to make money on the fix; and they can't expect to 'eat' hours of shop time fixing problems that arise after the fact caused by their suppliers.

 

[tmanners]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

If you guys ever have a issue with a stock, we want to know asap.
We take a lot of pride in our stocks and they carry a life time warranty. I guarantee that you will get the same service if you buy 1 stock or a 100. After reading this thread I got with George and went over how we QC cups. We have added a few steps that should insure that there is no issues in our stocks as long as a good quality loop is used. The loops and cups that we have been using for the last year now are made by Grove-tec US Inc.
Thank you very much,

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thomas Manners</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you guys ever have a issue with a stock, we want to know asap.
We take a lot of pride in our stocks and they carry a life time warranty. I guarantee that you will get the same service if you buy 1 stock or a 100. After reading this thread I got with George and went over how we QC cups. We have added a few steps that should insure that there is no issues in our stocks as long as a good quality loop is used. The loops and cups that we have been using for the last year now are made by Grove-tec US Inc.
Thank you very much,
</div></div>

Thomas, rest assured nobody is questioning your stocks. They are top notch and you run an outstanding shop with great customer service.

Thats one reason I used you as an example in one of my earlier posts. Obviously this post is a gateway for other companies/vendors to maybe hear about some problems that they refused to address when they were brought up offline. I appreciate you chiming in, as do others I'm sure.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I tried to call you last year about it but didn't get a return phone call. I fixed the flush cup myself because it was easier than paying the shipping like I had to do when you sent me an incorrectly converted WSM magazine (that was also the incorrect capacity). As I recall I raised a question of QC back then but you simply deleted my PM without response.
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I find this had to believe as there are 3 people here answering the phone, Im not going to say your not telling the truth but calls rarly go unanswered.

I dont recall the PM I may have deleted it by mistake as I have done that a time or 2. The WSM magazines are 3-7 round. They dont fall the same as 308, If we sent you the wrong mag it was a error in the shipment, a mistake. We will gladly pay for the shipping.

We service over 2000+ rifles a year + Full builds, as abouve im not saying a mistake is never made. Im sorry you feel so strongly that we did you wrong. Its not the norm.


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George, I have been put through to your voicemail on more than one occasion with no response.....

 

[Cartman]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

I am reassured that George will take the heat for a problem flush cup. As it should be -- if you put your name on it, you own the issue, IMO.

Many, many manufacturers of many, many, things outsource a variety of parts.

To those who think you should have to go track down the problem with the third-party vendor, you are rookie consumers who need to learn a little about getting your money's worth, or you are going to get taken for a ride. Frequently.

Duly noted that GAP doesn't install the flush cups -- but glad to see that GAP will make it right on rifles with their name on it. Upstanding company.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Cartman, you missed something.....

They didn't.

Quoting 858:
"I tried to call you last year about it but didn't get a return phone call. I fixed the flush cup myself because it was easier than paying the shipping like I had to do when you sent me an incorrectly converted WSM magazine (that was also the incorrect capacity). As I recall I raised a question of QC back then but you simply deleted my PM without response."

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cartman, you missed something.....

They didn't.

Quoting 858:
"I tried to call you last year about it but didn't get a return phone call. I fixed the flush cup myself because it was easier than paying the shipping like I had to do when you sent me an incorrectly converted WSM magazine (that was also the incorrect capacity). As I recall I raised a question of QC back then but you simply deleted my PM without response."
</div></div>
Russ, Im not sure why you feel bashing us is solving anything here. I never talked to 858 about the flush cup. I dont know his real name as he didnt order it as 858. If I would have talked to him it would have been taken care of. We took care of the Magazine swap and it was not mentioned there either. Give it a rest. we stand 100% behind our rifles and always have. You have owned plenty and I have never recieved a phone cal from you addressing any problems. Why the hard time now, did somthing change???. Please call me and fill me if thats the case, I would like to hear about it.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

Still not bashing you George. I started out simply agreeing with what 858 said.

You made a statement that I disagreed with, I haven't aired my dirty laundry in public, just stating what I think.

Never bashed you. Never started a thread with how unhappy I am. Don't plan on it. All that ends up happening is that threads get locked and minions come out of the wood work to stick up for who they feel needs it.

 

[858]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

George,if that's the case why didn't you return my calls or send me the correct magazine? I told you that you sent me the wrong mag when I told you it wasn't converted correctly.

I never got the impression you cared and I walked away feeling like I inconvenienced you. Its too bad Manners and MCM got drug into this. I was over all of this until a few days ago. I think this all could have been avoided.

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: GAP M40A3 DROP TEST RESULTS

*grins at 858 and waves* Time for me to chime in here.

This is my question, when a stock is shipped from the manufacturer with a flush cup installed. Does it ship with a corresponding swivel ring from the manufacture of the stock?

IF it ships with a swivel ring and the swivel ring that it ships with wether its to the builder or to the end user is not used then how can the stock manufacturer or the builder be at fault?

If the stock manufacturer simply installs a flush cup and then the end user inserts some random swivel ring into the flush cup how can the stock maker or the builder be at fault? I feel that it is the end users job to make sure something is going to be compatible with something existing befor trusting it to function properly.

If the flushcup was installed and QC'd to be used with a certain swivel ring and that particular brand/style swivel ring is not used I dont see how anyone can blame someone else for a failure without prior testing in a controlled environment.

I dont really have a dog in this fight but I thought I would apply my thoughts. I know that this thread has turned completely from where it started. I joined this site for the information, if my post helps me to understand the QC aspect behind flush cups and such then cool, I have joined for the right reason I have posted in this thread for the right reason as well.