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GAP vs. Surgeon

shooterpunk

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 19, 2008
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Utah, USA
My father is interested in getting a .338 Lapua. I looked around a little found that GAP and Surgeon make these. How would you rate these two against each other? I realize GAP uses the Surgeon action for the .338 Lapua, who do you think puts a rifle together better?

Also how does the Sako TRG and AI compare to these custom rifles?

Are there any other custom rifle makers that make a .338 Lapua?

Thanks a lot guys
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

They both build great rifles.

GAP could be a few months out (5 to 6) where Surgeon could have one on the shelf waiting to go, but maybe not. I'm into instant gratification so that would drive my decision.

I'd call both, find out lead times, etc. That may make your decision easier.

J
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

I would agree that time can be a driving factor in the decision. GAP will be burger king and you can have it your way but then you can also be in limbo waiting to get your stock, barrel or anything else you may want. I beleive they maintain a decent supply of some items on hand so it would boil down to how flexible you are in the build spec. Maybe you wanted a Rock and they dont have those but may have a few Obermeyers sitting around, would you be willing to take one over the other? Some people are flexible others not so much.

Surgeon can and will do custom work as well but then you are back to waiting for parts to come in. They do keep a healthy supply of Kreiger's, McM A-5's and AICS on hand and have complete rifles ready to ship on a regular basis.

 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

The Sako TRG would be the right choice if you wanted a lightweight 338LM, and they are accurate. The latest version has a 10" twist for the 300-grain Sierras.
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30378</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want the best, get a B.A.T.</div></div>

Depends on what you're looking for.

You don't find many BAT actions on field rifles.
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

Bat actions are very good actions but not that great for field use. If your building a target rifle and want to but the best then Bat would be one of my choices but if hes going to use it for field use Id go Surgeon or Neiska.
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30378</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want the best, get a B.A.T. </div></div>
Nice post but a day too late!
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Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

TRG is tough to beat, but when you get done buying accessories for it a custom is probably the same price depending on options. If you know exactly what you want, and are willing to wait and possibly pay for it, custom is the way to go.

Plus side of the TRG is it's available now several places, a custom you can figure a few months, and that's if most of the parts are ready to go. If they have trouble getting a part they need could be longer.

Oh and if you check into lead times, add 30% to whatever you are quoted. In my experience that's a good rule, because for whatever reason custom shops almost never get builds done on time. Usually because they are waiting on parts. So if you are quoted 3 months, expect 5. This is just the way it is, accept it. Don't call the builder every week to see what the status is, they hate it and it wastes their time. I usually call somewhere in the middle of the quoted time to see how things are going, and also at the time it was quoted to be done. Besides, you don't want the guy building your rifle pissed off at ya while he's doing it
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If you end up with custom here are some recommendations for questions to be asked. If it seems they don't have time to talk to you or address your questions fully, then I'd find someone else. You don't want to deal with a smith that is unwilling to take the time to discuss your build. I realize it takes time away from their work but part of what you pay for is communication with the customer. Without good communication things go wrong a shop unwilling to do that isn't a top shop in my book.

First I like to know who is building my rifle, this is why I prefer to deal with smaller shops. The good ones are harder to find, but to me you get more personal service and you know who is doing the work. With a large shop with lots of guys you don't know who is doing the work, or how many guys are working on the rifle from start to finish. Is it the guy that they built their rep on, or is it the guy they hired 3 months ago and it's his second time chaimbering a customers rifle? Years of experience pay off, gunsmiths with more time under their belt who still have great reputations are worth the extra time and wait for the end product.

To me this is the difference between say wilson combat and Volkmann/Yost etc. With one you get a large shop with a lot of guys that build guns, you never talk to the guy doing the building, you get to pick your options, but in the end you have no control over who builds it, or how many different guys work on it before it's done. With the other you have one guy doing the work, who works with you from start to finish on what you want, and they make sure it runs perfect before it leaves. Cost is not that much different, wait time usually is.

Ask if you will be given chamber dimensions, and info on what reamer was used etc. If you are reloading these things can be important. Yes you can buy your own tools to measure them (and will probably want to) but many smiths include this info.

Ask if the rifle will be test fired, not only for function but for performance. In other words will the smith be test firing the rifle for grouping, and will those targets be included with the rifle. To me it's a CUSTOM gun, the maker should make SURE it functions AND performs before it leaves the shop. It takes more time, and may add cost to the build but you are assured of a performing product when it arrives.

Also ask what the rifle will be shipped back to you in. Many smiths use cheap cases to ship things back. I've had $3500 rifles shipped back to me in cases that I wouldn't ship a used 10/22 in. If they use that type of case for shipping ask if you can provide a pelican/storm case that is shipping worthy to them, or pay for them to provide one.

To me if a smith will not take the time to address your questions, and is not at least open to doing the things listed above, then he's probably not the shop you want. With the understanding that those things may add and probably will add extra cost and time to the build. Usually shops that won't do it say it takes too long and would add too much cost to their work. To me that's the whole point of having a custom build done.

Last build I had done went about 30% over the quoted time, I was never contacted once during the build process to verify anything, no chamber info was included, and it turns out the guy that built it had only been there a couple of months and it was returned in a $30 case. Wasn't too impressed with the process at all.


 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

FWIW Bat will lap the race ways to open them up a little for field use so there not so tight.
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

+1 on bat, Surgeon builds a hell of an action also. Got a wsm action in and the machine work is flawless. BAT will do whatever you want within reason, but all work fine for me.. As far as Nesika goes, not no but hell no. They are having problems and they have one of my friends money. Will not give him an action or give his money back. 8 mts still nothing.
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooterpunk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My father is interested in getting a .338 Lapua. I looked around a little found that GAP and Surgeon make these. How would you rate these two against each other? I realize GAP uses the Surgeon action for the .338 Lapua, who do you think puts a rifle together better?

Also how does the Sako TRG and AI compare to these custom rifles?

Are there any other custom rifle makers that make a .338 Lapua?

Thanks a lot guys </div></div>

It's like Porsche vs. Ferrari. It's a personal preference. IMHO, you can't go wrong with either choice. I myself have an AIAWSM. It's plenty accurate for me. I will never be able to outshoot it.
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Sako TRG would be the right choice if you wanted a lightweight 338LM... </div></div>

the words "lightweight" and ".338LM" should never be used together... my shoulder hurts thinking about shooting a lightweight 338...
 
Re: GAP vs. Surgeon

Nesika actions would be very tight in the dirt as well.
I've seen more than one get crap in them and cause issues on the line.