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Garmin Chronograph - calibration?

bax

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Minuteman
Oct 25, 2009
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Southwest Michigan
I developed a load without a chrono - I just shot for accuracy and used the elevation measurements from the scope to determine velocity. Using that technique, I figured that my velocity was about 2725 fps.

Last Sunday I was out with a buddy. He had a Garmin chronograph. I placed it next to my rifle and fired 5 rounds - yeah, yeah, I know small samples and all that. The device gave me a velocity of 2775 and an SD of 2-something. Using both velocities, the dial difference is 0.3 mils (call it 1 moa) at 1,000 with standard atmosphere. With this gun, cold bore shots tended a little high so my guess - the device velocity was probably better than mine.

Has anyone calibrated a Garmin chrono? What sort of tolerance is reasonable?
 
There is no “calibration” what you are seeing is the deviation in your load.

I think you are saying your extreme spread at 1000 yards is .3 tall, yep welcome to long distance shooting, and think about what you asking.

You have no clue what your MV will be until you shoot. You can look at the range, but the reality is, it’s unknown until you shoot.

So how can the Xero know or be calibrated to something external?
 
There is no “calibration” what you are seeing is the deviation in your load.

I think you are saying your extreme spread at 1000 yards is .3 tall, yep welcome to long distance shooting, and think about what you asking.

You have no clue what your MV will be until you shoot. You can look at the range, but the reality is, it’s unknown until you shoot.

So how can the Xero know or be calibrated to something external?
Apparently I didn't explain my "without a chrono" process - it involves shooting.

1. shoot and adjust until your have a 100 yard zero - slip or not, up to you.
2. shoot 200, adjust scope until point of aim equals point of impact. Write down your scope setting.
3. shoot 300, do like 200 and write down the scope setting.
4. repeat out as far as you want. You now have a list of elevations for 100, 200, 300, etc.
I use Applied Ballistics.
5. using your ballistic calculator, put in your bullet, scope, and make up a velocity - doesn't matter. Tell it to compute a trajectory where the longest range matches the longest range you shot - if your max range was 800, tell AB to make a trajectory out to 800. If the AB elevation is less than you got, your velocity guess was too high, make it smaller and try again. If the AB elevation was bigger than your measurement then your velocity guess was too low, make it higher and try again.

For example, suppose I shot out to 1000. 300 PRC, 230 grain Berger hybrids. Using my scope, my measurement is 7.6. Just for the helluvit I guess the velocity is 2700 fps. Put in the bullet and my atmosphere and AB says up you need 8.1. 8.1 is more than 7.6 so that velocity estimate is too low (the faster the bullet goes the less drop) so I need to try a higher velocity. In AB, I change my velocity guess from 2700 to 2800 and recompute. Now AB says up 7.4 mils. My AB guess is less that my actual shooting measurement so my velocity guess is too fast, try a lower velocity. Try 2750. Now AB says 7.7. Try velocity 2775. Now AB says 7.6. Since AB is estimating the same as what the gun shoots, I have a working velocity.

Now check the other ranges. The scope elevations should all match. If they don't then there is something wrong with BC or your scope is not working correctly or there is something add about your range - sun, hills and valleys - something.

I have an Oehler chrono but in order to use it, I have to go in front of the line, set up tripods, rig up the screens, run wires etc. If it isn't just right, I have to close the range while I fiddle with it. The above technique gives me a good working number that matches reality. I am asking about the Garmin because the technique above gave me 2725 or a bit more but Garmin gave me 2775 - those are 0.3 mils different on the target. Garmin doesn't know if there is something odd about my gun but the target is always right. I was simply trying to get a read on calibrated Garmin accuracy because if the Garmin is right then either there is something odd about my scope/gun or about the light/wind/hills at my range. It would be nice to know.
 
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No offense, but there's so much wrong with your logic and questions that it would take a long time to go point by point.

Some main points:

- You can't really use 300yds to true velocity
- You can't use small deviations at long distances like .3 at 1k yds to figure out if there's something wrong unless you have a ton of data. Simple things like light refraction, mirage, inconsistent recoil management, etc etc.....can easily show several tenths deviation at longer distance
 
Here dope your rifle with this chart it's much easier, after you do this, you can put the trued data into AB

Gravity Ballistics Worksheet v02_Page_2.png
 
You guys are going to a lot of trouble to tell me that my technique for estimating velocity won't work. Well, too bad. It has been working for me for about 20 years with every gun I have used it with. I haven't taken a chronograph to a range in forever and regularly I make cold bore 800 yards hits with 308s and cold bore 1000 yard hits with my 300 prc using velocities derived using this method.

I shoot out to 1k and my scope tell me that is 7.9 up from a 100 yard zero. AB says for that bullet, at that range and weather, with that scope elevation, the velocity is about 2725. All of the AB predicted mid-points are pretty close to my actual scope measurements. Now that I have a starting velocity, when I enter the atmosphere, my bullet, and 2725, I can change the weather and I am on at every 100-yard increment from 100 to 1000.

The Garmin tells me that my velocity is 2775, not 2725. Next time I go to the range, I will attempt a cold bore shot at 1 k and see if that velocity works with my gun. Based on a couple years of shooting history with that gun, I guess that 2775 will be .2 or .3 mil low. I have a 1 mil target so we will see.

In normal use, I would give AB bullet, weather, and velocity then solve for elevations. I am just doing the algebra backwards. I am giving AB bullet, weather, and elevations and solving for velocity. It's just math, I has to work.
 
No offense, but there's so much wrong with your logic and questions that it would take a long time to go point by point.

Some main points:

- You can't really use 300yds to true velocity
- You can't use small deviations at long distances like .3 at 1k yds to figure out if there's something wrong unless you have a ton of data. Simple things like light refraction, mirage, inconsistent recoil management, etc etc.....can easily show several tenths deviation at longer distance
I get a 100 yards zero, I usually slip turrets. Then I shoot at 200 yards until I am on then I write down the scope elevation above the 100 yard zero - say +.4. Then I shoot at 300 until I am on then I write down the scope elevation above the 100 yard zero - say +1.2. Repeat until I get to 1k. Repeat out to 1k. I now have scope elevations for 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, and 1000. I don't use 300 yards to true velocity, I use 10 measurements, one measurement every 100 out to 1000.

I agree that mirage and recoil management can make differences. At 1k, I do my cold bore and warm ups on a 1-mil plate. The range I use also has a 1 moa plate at 1k - I think it is actually 10 inches diameter. Shooting 5-shot groups, I usually hit it 3 times, sometimes 4 times. Once, I hit it 5 times out of 5 shots but I think that was a fluke - combine bad wind call and muscling the gun, offsetting errors. If I can't shoot plus or minus 0.2 mils I stop shooting. It is either me or the conditions but, in either case, I am wasting ammo.

I don't claim to be a good shot. One of my friends hangs a tennis ball on a string and shoots it at 1k. He hits it often enough.
 
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You guys are going to a lot of trouble to tell me that my technique for estimating velocity won't work. Well, too bad. It has been working for me for about 20 years with every gun I have used it with. I haven't taken a chronograph to a range in forever and regularly I make cold bore 800 yards hits with 308s and cold bore 1000 yard hits with my 300 prc using velocities derived using this method.

I shoot out to 1k and my scope tell me that is 7.9 up from a 100 yard zero. AB says for that bullet, at that range and weather, with that scope elevation, the velocity is about 2725. All of the AB predicted mid-points are pretty close to my actual scope measurements. Now that I have a starting velocity, when I enter the atmosphere, my bullet, and 2725, I can change the weather and I am on at every 100-yard increment from 100 to 1000.

The Garmin tells me that my velocity is 2775, not 2725. Next time I go to the range, I will attempt a cold bore shot at 1 k and see if that velocity works with my gun. Based on a couple years of shooting history with that gun, I guess that 2775 will be .2 or .3 mil low. I have a 1 mil target so we will see.

In normal use, I would give AB bullet, weather, and velocity then solve for elevations. I am just doing the algebra backwards. I am giving AB bullet, weather, and elevations and solving for velocity. It's just math, I has to work.

You guys are going to a lot of trouble to tell me that my technique for estimating velocity won't work. Well, too bad. It has been working for me for about 20 years with every gun I have used it with. I haven't taken a chronograph to a range in forever and regularly I make cold bore 800 yards hits with 308s and cold bore 1000 yard hits with my 300 prc using velocities derived using this method.

I shoot out to 1k and my scope tell me that is 7.9 up from a 100 yard zero. AB says for that bullet, at that range and weather, with that scope elevation, the velocity is about 2725. All of the AB predicted mid-points are pretty close to my actual scope measurements. Now that I have a starting velocity, when I enter the atmosphere, my bullet, and 2725, I can change the weather and I am on at every 100-yard increment from 100 to 1000.

The Garmin tells me that my velocity is 2775, not 2725. Next time I go to the range, I will attempt a cold bore shot at 1 k and see if that velocity works with my gun. Based on a couple years of shooting history with that gun, I guess that 2775 will be .2 or .3 mil low. I have a 1 mil target so we will see.

In normal use, I would give AB bullet, weather, and velocity then solve for elevations. I am just doing the algebra backwards. I am giving AB bullet, weather, and elevations and solving for velocity. It's just math, I has to work.
I do the same. I shoot at BB 300 PRC/300NM. I start with the the Garmin/LR MV and AB projection and then I center up on the 10 inch plate at 990 on the top of Spears mountain and adjust my MV in AB to agree with impacts at 990. I just back into the MV from the actual come up at 990. The AB projections then work really well in the (-14) 1200, (-10) 1500 and (-8) 1900 bays. I shoot my 6BR there as well on the <1K Chicken Foot range with no adjustment to the AB projections. Why the hell would you use a manual gravity sheet when you have a hand held ballistic solver.
 
The drop depends on the gravitational constant and flight time - S = 1/2AT**2. Flight time between any two points on the trip depends on initial velocity and drag. We have devices to compute that, I also carry printed trajectory tables. And we have angle measuring devices mounted on our rifles.
 
Here dope your rifle with this chart it's much easier, after you do this, you can put the trued data into AB

View attachment 8400345

I think the sheet should say bottom to top, left to right, rather than top to bottom. Everyone should know that already but there’s a ton of idiots among us.
 
Ya that’s that wrong one, my bad I didn’t look close at the image, I’ll fix it with the right one. It was a mid-project change I had on my computer prior to the adjustment of the text. My bad on not paying more attention
 
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Then why do you care about calibrating them?
Because I like all of my measurements to agree. The more, the merrier. When I have a measurement that doesn't agree, I get nervous that the new one is right and all of the other ones are just accidently close to right.

I have a lot of experience with developing theories and then using them to make predictions. Mostly they turn out okay but not every time. Suppose the Garmin tolerance was 3%. Then my technique could be right and the Garmin could also be right - within tolerance. But I read that the Garmin tolerance is 0.1%. Now I need to shoot the new velocity and check.

FWIW, I measured 100 yards with a tape measure, set up a tall target, and verified my scope clicks. Two of three are dead on. The third one is 0.1 mil off when 15 mils up - 15 mils on the scope is 15.1 mils on the target.
 
I've run half a dozen garmins and 2 lab radars at the day and gun. They were all consistent.

There is a lot of variables that can come into play that will scramble your numbers. First off....what's the tall target score? How's the wind direction and speed? How accurate are you on that day? What's the calibration like on your kestrel? Mine was giving me fits if I fired it off near a rig.

There's a lot of places to stack numbers.
 
Because I like all of my measurements to agree. The more, the merrier. When I have a measurement that doesn't agree, I get nervous that the new one is right and all of the other ones are just accidently close to right.

I have a lot of experience with developing theories and then using them to make predictions. Mostly they turn out okay but not every time. Suppose the Garmin tolerance was 3%. Then my technique could be right and the Garmin could also be right - within tolerance. But I read that the Garmin tolerance is 0.1%. Now I need to shoot the new velocity and check.

FWIW, I measured 100 yards with a tape measure, set up a tall target, and verified my scope clicks. Two of three are dead on. The third one is 0.1 mil off when 15 mils up - 15 mils on the scope is 15.1 mils on the target.
I have never had my trued velocity match the chrono numbers....it is why you true your calculator at distance. We true at 611. Lat one I just did, chrono (garmin) was at 2825. I was .1 mil high on water line, came down .1 and was on water line. Trued velocity in kestrel and it came out to 2850. Verified at 800 and 1k, and it was perfect.
 
Just because this has been working for you on large targets out to 800 does not mean it's correct. Your method fails to correct the BC, it does not account for vertical deflection from wind, you have no downrange velocity or time of flight figure.

Short answer, if it's working for you, sell the Garmin and stop worrying about matching the velocity to the device. Long answer is take a class so you know how it is actually done, setting up systems that perform on < MOA targets at 2000+ yards.
 
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I have never had my trued velocity match the chrono numbers....it is why you true your calculator at distance. We true at 611. Lat one I just did, chrono (garmin) was at 2825. I was .1 mil high on water line, came down .1 and was on water line. Trued velocity in kestrel and it came out to 2850. Verified at 800 and 1k, and it was perfect.
Yeah, that’s Frank’s guidance too…25 fps/.1 mil