Rifle Scopes Gen2 focus & parallax

[Bigwheels]

Had my brand new Gen 2 4.5-27 out for its 1st shots last weekend and thought I noticed an issue with the focus at ELR range. I zeroed and shot for tracking/dope at 750, 920, 1130, 1410, and 1710 yds. Everything was spot on until I got to 1710 yds. By this time the sun had begun to come out and the mirage was running pretty hard but it seemed like I couldn't get the scope to focus properly at that range. The parallax was good but it just seemed that the knob needed to go just a bit farther than it would go to bring it into focus. Being my 1st time out with this scope and the mirage being what it was I'm not sure.
Anyone see this with theirs?
Thanks.

 

[eklarsen]

How many shots in a row? When you are magnifying 27X barrel heat will cause a significant mirage, let it cool and it should be clear as day again.

 

[patriot07]

I recently found out that focus at longer ranges can be significantly impacted by your diopter settings. If you figure out that it isn't barrel heat mirage, revisit the diopter settings to see if that helps. It helped a good bit with my SWFA HD 5-20.

 

[Bigwheels]

I had to move to new FFPs at each range so I noticed it before I began my last string when I was setting my parallax, and dope. But I hadn't thought of checking the diopter setting again. I'll look at that again.
Thanks.

 

[koshkin]

I recently found out that focus at longer ranges can be significantly impacted by your diopter settings. If you figure out that it isn't barrel heat mirage, revisit the diopter settings to see if that helps. It helped a good bit with my SWFA HD 5-20.

You are welcone.

 

[Bigwheels]

In addition to my question here I sent an email to Vortex & they called me today.
He was pretty cool & posited some ideas about the problem. It could be the diopter setting or maybe @ 60 moa of my 75 available I might have been running near the edge.
One thing I did learn is that the moa version functionally has less internal travel than the mil. He said it was a function of the turret having only 2.75 revolutions.
I wish they had spelled this out in their literature. I got a moa scope because that's what I've been using for years but had I known about this I would have switched to mil. Kinda pissed.

 

[Lowlight]

In addition to my question here I sent an email to Vortex & they called me today.
He was pretty cool & posited some ideas about the problem. It could be the diopter setting or maybe @ 60 moa of my 75 available I might have been running near the edge.
One thing I did learn is that the moa version functionally has less internal travel than the mil. He said it was a function of the turret having only 2.75 revolutions.
I wish they had spelled this out in their literature. I got a moa scope because that's what I've been using for years but had I known about this I would have switched to mil. Kinda pissed.

They did tell you, the question is, DID YOU BOTHER to LOOK ?

MOA Version shows 71MOA
MIL Version shows 28.5 MILS or 97 MOA

Right on their website

 

[Bigwheels]

I did & I asked them about it too. They said it boils down to the difference between 3moa & 1 mil so the difference isn't that much. Where my zero is set I can come up 75ish moa don't remember exactly right now. But if I had got the mil it would have been a tad more. Either way you only get a little over 3 revolutions on the turret before it stops. So I may get a little more if I put a 40moa rail on but not another 10 or 20 moa. The turret will mechanically stop a little over 3 revolutions either way.
I'm not too bent about it. I can still reach about 1900 in the turret as it is. They said I should get an adjustable base or a prism clip on if I want to go farther.

 

[eklarsen]

Don't forget you have another 25 MOA in the elevation adjustment under the screw cap thingy, Just sight her in at 200 or 300 using that and you get more... They used to say this scope had 105 MOA but they got called on it and changed the literature.

 

[Lowlight]

Zeroing farther does not give you more, you'd have to angle the base so you CAN'T zero at 100 then you can get more.

But just changing the zero range does not add elevation, changing the scope base angle does.

 

[eklarsen]

Zeroing farther does not give you more, you'd have to angle the base so you CAN'T zero at 100 then you can get more.

But just changing the zero range does not add elevation, changing the scope base angle does.

That would be true if using the turret to zero, however if you use the 25 MOA you have under the screw cap to zero at 2-300 you still have the 75 moa adjustment from the turret. Vortex themself used to count those in the total usable MOA adjustment in their Razor Gen 2 marketing until about 1 year ago. I personally don't do this as I have a 20 moa base as you describe and the 75 adjustment I have is plenty for my shooting distances but as I understand it from Vortex you can use that, you would have more experience so I will defer but that is what they told me when I called and asked.

 

[pell1203]

eklarsen, you are confused! Believe Lowlight, he has it right! There is no free lunch here, only angling the base will give you more adjustment, and then only because you are mounting the scope off the optical center due to using the 20 MOA base.

 

[Lowlight]

Since you know better and spke to Vortex,

Please explain the process of getting at the elevation under the turret cap?

How do you add more using the screw ? Without changing the base.

80-40-20

 

[Bigwheels]

What he's saying is that the way the turret works you can unlock it & effectively zero @ 500yds & then you'll have 71 moa in the turret from there. The guy @ Vortex told me the same thing. It's not the internal erector assly that is stopping @ 71 moa its the turret.
Since I had the focus issue that started this whole thing they are shipping me a mil version with a return label to send mine back for warranty. Their CS is definitely 1st rate. Should be here before the weekend so I can get it mounted & zero/test next weekend. Very pleased.

 

[Lowlight]

Please explain tbe process again,

How does zerojng at 500 add more ? If nothing else changes ?

Adding 25 moa to the base, will give you more and usibg the screw you can recover it so you can still zeromat 100. Zeroing at 500 alone does not do it. Plus who wants a 500 yard zero, totally stupid

 

[Bigwheels]

You're not taking into account the mechanics of the turret assly vs erector assly.
When you release the set screws in the turret you are separating the assemblies. You can then adjust the erector to say 500yds zero & then tighten the set screws which then locks the 2 assemblies together again. You will then have 3 revs in the turret to use.
If you loosen the set screws & turn the turret without moving the erector you will still only get 3 revs before it stops. Its not like a NF where when you loosen the set screws you can turn the turret round & round forever. Depending on where the erector is in its range of travel you may run out of travel before you get to 3 revolutions but in my case probably not. Functionally its would be the same as using an adjustable base adding say 20moa to the base only it's unseen inside the scope.

 

[Lowlight]

I have them, I have been to the Vortex Factory, i have seen behind the scenes,

I use the center screw when zeroing I understand it.

500 yards is like 12MOA, so how are you getting 25 MOA more out of it.

The answer is, they advertise 71 MOA, 1/2 of that is 35MOA, so if you used a 35 MOA Base you can get 100% of the 71, but there is more under the hood, so you can move to a 45 MOA and recover more using the screw to adjust.

Just dialing to 500 does not do this...

And other scopes have "More under the turrets" too like S&B etc,

 

[Bigwheels]

Not saying you wouldn't potentially run out of erector travel before you get to the 3 revs. And not saying it's a proper way to do things just saying that you can do it to get more adjustment. In my case I could easily add in 10moa under the turret & functionally get 80moa of travel. But then I'd have to remove it again to zero @ 100yds. Not something that I would do.

 

[Lowlight]

Or you can use a 45MOA Base on your rifle and get the extra from a 100 yard zero

Do it your way, I think you will find it will not work

 

[Bigwheels]

Already have a 40moa base & I'm not going to do it that way. I'm not the guy that brought this up just made an attempt to clarify what another posted. If I need more than what's there I'll get an adjustable base or better yet a prism.

 

[Bigwheels]

The way the turret is built if you put on a 20 moa base & zero @ 100yds you have 71moa up from there. If you put a 30moa base on it & zero @ 100yds you still get 71moa.

 

[Lowlight]

IF you say so...

Coming from the guy that didn't have a clue what he was buying

 

[Bigwheels]

Well I have been enlightened. Try it on one of your Gen2 scopes. No matter where you lock it down you get just shy of 3 revs on the turret...

 

[Lowlight]

Mine is on a 300NM with a 100 yard zero and i can shoot out too 2400 yards with no issue, i have no need to screw with the set up

If i need more I buy the right tool, i dont try and pretend i can get it work with creative adjustments

 

[Bigwheels]

Which is what I said a few posts ago.
If you're saying you can change the base to gain more out of one of these you're wrong. On any other scope I've owned you'd be right. Just not this one.

 

[Bigwheels]

Ok maybe I'm not explaining my point correctly.
"The features of the moa scope say:
This scope offers 113.5moa total elevation adjustment & 48moa total windage adjustment."
But the turret only moves just less than 3 revolutions for a total of 71moa. This is in the turret assly. Not the erector.
So if your zero is at a point less than 42.5 moa off of bottom there is still internal travel left that you can't access due to the design of the turret.
So if I'm zeroed @ 100 & the erector assly is say 10 moa from the bottom of travel there is still 103.5 moa of travel in the erector assly but the turret still limits you to 71moa. So even if I were to zero that 10moa back to the bottom to gain the 10 moa up the turret still limits you to 71moa.
That's my point. No matter where you zero the erector assly the turret will still limit you to 71moa. The mil version is the same. You can only turn the turret up 3 revolutions & it stops.

 

[Lowlight]

If you cant turn the turret beyond 3 revs and you are relying on tbe screw, you're screwed.

Just because the center screw turns more doesnt mean you can reasonably use it, youd be spinning it with limited ability to know where it is, guys with USOs did this to do things like create a fake zero stop, it never worked out for them either, holding the turret and turning the screw lol.

Sure you can work off the center screw alone, but its dumb and stupid. At the end of the day, its a waste of time to even consider.

Youre suggesting like the USO tomuse the screw and not the turret, silly to consider.

 

[Bigwheels]

Eklarsen is the guy that brought this up. Not me. I just pointed out that what he said could be done. I never advocated doing it.

 

[eklarsen]

Listen, I never said it was the best way to do it and I also said I use the 20 MOA base because that is the proper way to make it work but I stand by the comment and it can be done. If you guys don't want to hear it, so be it I don't have any vested interest in your acceptance so moving on...

 

[Lowlight]

No, you really can 't do it, been tried with other scopes, it's a fake proposition

it's in there, doesn't mean there is a way to properly access it.

I want to see you DO IT as you claimed

Please show us in the real world how "YOU WOULD DO IT" or shut up with the BS

 

[eklarsen]

Challenge accepted, need to find a flat base or some basic 34MM rings to start I will keep you posted