General question re ammo management during comps

[proneshooter]

One thing I noticed from watching videos of various matches and training courses is that shooters leave the bolt open and remove the magazine from a bolt action rifle before leaving a firing position and moving to the next. It seems they do this even between firing positions within the same stage (presumably while still on the clock).

Obviously, shooters without detachable magazines are at a huge time disadvantage if they have to completely empty the rifle before moving from one firing point to the other while on the clock.

The questions for those who've BTDT are these:

Are my observations correct?

And if they are, what do shooters with non-detachable magazines do? Stay out of matches where this "unload 100% before moving on the clock" requirement exists?

Just curious about this.

 

[boss]

Re: General question re ammo management during comps

Seems like all matches handle this differently. You will need to check with the match director to see how it is handled. However, we see very few top loaders at the major matches, because they are at a distinct disadvantage vs. magazine fed rifles.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: General question re ammo management during comps

I've ran a lot of matches, I'm a CMP GSM MI. The CMP and NRA are big on safety (good thing) and insist on the use of ECI (empty chamber indicators), another good thing.

I shoot bolt guns in differant matches and every time I move, or wont be firing I slip in the ECI in the chamber. Anyone can see the rifle is safe whether the mag is empty or not. There is no way a gun can go off with a ECI installed.

That would be a simple answer to your question about people moving with loaded fixed magazines. It's every bit as safe as unloading the rifle. It just takes an instant to put in and take out, lot faster then unloading and loading a rifle if you're under the clock.

I insist they are used even in magazine rifles when the mag is out. As a safety officer you can see an empty mag well, but you can't see inside the chamber. You can see the ECI.

These suckers are cheap, $3.99 a dozzen. I keep them in all my rifles, always have a bunch to pass out when I put on matches or clinics.

I think the military has started using them, or at least the OH NG did when I saw them at the ranges in Ohio.

https://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/c...note5=&max=

 

[Mike]

Re: General question re ammo management during comps

Kraig makes a very valid point as an ECI is a sure fire indicator nothing is in the chamber.

In the tactical comps I have attended top loaders have a huge disadvantage. Are there those that can be very quick with one? Yes, are they competitive? Not really.

In the tac matches when you're humping gear from one spot to the next and the rifle is slung, there is a chance the ECI can get caught on something and fall out. Yes, they're cheap, but you don't want to have to drag a dozen around with you. Also, on those stages that require movement, throwing an ECI in the chamber and then running with the rifle again leaves opportunity for it to fall out, and then you're left with a potential issue.

Your best bet if you want to shoot the tactical style comps is to get a detachable magazine.

 

[djskit]

Re: General question re ammo management during comps

If you poke a hole in the flag part of the NRA ECI - run a bungee through it and loop it around the bolt handle, it is quite secure.

 

[RodneyDowns]

Re: General question re ammo management during comps

The match I go to that requires movement under time requires the bolt MUST be open before you start to move or its a DQ. You DONT have to remove the mag or empty the gun but the bolt must remain open while moving.
BUT if your trying to decide on a detachable mag based on wether you need to unload the gun or not while moving theres ia also another reason you WILL want a detachable mag for these competitions even if you DONT have to empty the gun 1st. Capacity. Even if you DONT have to empty the gun of rounds you just can't fit enough rounds into a non detachable magazine to complete a round. The matches I shoot usually have 5-10 shots per round and without a detachable mag you just cant keep up and be competitive. Par time stages can be done without a detachable mag if you are quick on the shoot and reloading but on timed stages you will most like at least double your time without a detachable magazine.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Re: General question re ammo management during comps

I suspect that you'd be hard pressed to find the last time someone finished in the top 10 per cent of any competitive match in the country with out detachable magazines.

That being said, being proficient at single feeding is a very useful skill. It is faster to single feed those last 2 rounds (off the butt of the rifle) than to locate and install that second magazine (off your hip/chest pouch).

 

[Outback]

Re: General question re ammo management during comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've ran a lot of matches, I'm a CMP GSM MI. The CMP and NRA are big on safety (good thing) and insist on the use of ECI (empty chamber indicators), another good thing.

I shoot bolt guns in differant matches and every time I move, or wont be firing I slip in the ECI in the chamber. Anyone can see the rifle is safe whether the mag is empty or not. There is no way a gun can go off with a ECI installed.

That would be a simple answer to your question about people moving with loaded fixed magazines. It's every bit as safe as unloading the rifle. It just takes an instant to put in




and take out, lot faster then unloading and loading a rifle if you're under the clock.



If the bolt is up it can't go off
It's safe


I insist they are used even in magazine rifles when the mag is out. As a safety officer you can see an empty mag well, but you can't see inside the chamber. You can see the ECI.

These suckers are cheap, $3.99 a dozzen. I keep them in all my rifles, always have a bunch to pass out when I put on matches or clinics.

I think the military has started using them, or at least the OH NG did when I saw them at the ranges in Ohio.

https://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/c...note5=&max= </div></div>

 

[Outback]

Re: General question re ammo management during comps

If the bolt is up your safe it can t fire