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Rifle Scopes GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

H

hydro556

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 1, 2007
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STL, home of the Cardinals.
Opinions? The scope will be going on my GAP 308. Range used for is 0-700 yards 99% of the time. Will be used for deer hunting some.

I was planning to get the GenII XR, but am wondering what you guys thought about the Gen2 MilDot.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I think it's an awesome reticle for the intended purpose. The crosshairs are 0.15 mil thick vs 0.1 mil for the XR, only 5.4 inches at 1000 yards, just over 0.5 MOA.

It's not as cool or hip happenin' as the XR but for an all around general purpose reticle it's tough to beat
grin.gif
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I have both reticles: some Premier-Loopy modded scopes and the new Heritage. Really like the GenII if you hold wind and dial elev. The Christmas tree on the XR shines when holding both wind and elev, similar to Horus.
Wish the GenII had thinner lines.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnAE308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wish the GenII had thinner lines.</div></div>

Aye, I considered getting the XR just to get thinner lines but in the end I prefer the streamlines simplicity of the Gen II. Also the XR uses 0.1MRad dots instead of 0.2Mrad dots. I much prefer the 0.2 dots for subtending.

 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

No. That's the way Premier refers to them. Obviously, they're both mil-dot reticles.
just using shorthand, much like using G2.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I went with the GenII mildot for my 3-15 because I wanted a fast reticle for shooting tactical type targets....like 6" steel plates or hunting too I guess. I was worried that the XR would be to thin at 8-10X and would be harder to find quickly when looking onto dark backgrounds or brush. For a target/paper shooter the XR wins hands down, I plan to get one in the 5-25 for a 338LM where the scope will always be above 15X and the reticle will be larger.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I'm on the other side of the fence.

I don't like the XR for what I use the scope for which is matches and hunting. I think the dots are too small at .1 mil in diameter and the lines too thin as well.

I've looked through the XR and at lower power and moving around such as shooting movers, positional, or improvised positions I'm just not a fan of the small dots and thin lines.

I love my Gen II reticle for the shooting I do. I would like to have the XR reticle with the dots at .2 mils in diameter and the line thickness like the Gen II has.

YMMV.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

That's the downside of FFP at low power: lines thick enough to be useable at low power are too large at high power, and vice versa.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

That's why I like the 0.1 Mil Aiming dot at the center of Boyette's modified MP-8 reticle in the SH IOR. Everything was thick enough to use @ 3x, but the aiming dot still let you shoot for groups @ 18x.

 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I haven't found the "thick" lines on a regular Gen II too thick to shoot little groups at 100 yards. When shooting 1/2" dots at 100 yards at the Cup I didn't have any trouble having a consistent hold point on max power on my Heritage.

I also like mil dots as opposed to hash marks too, but that's just me. I find it easier to count hold overs/offs using dots when waving around in positions and having the power turned down.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I'm not arguing with you, like I said the Gen II is my choice too (not that my pick really means anything.) I also agree with you on dots vs hashes, and having 0.2 dots. But that doesn't mean I think the Gen II is absolutely perfect. Boyette's aiming dot really worked well for me when I had the IOR such that it took a lot less concentration for me to get consistent POA on small targets like what you're talking about then the Gen II requires. Now maybe some of that is simply my inexperience and you can do just as well with the Gen II, but would you do any WORSE with an aiming dot? I personally just wish more reticles followed his lead on that.

 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I'm not arguing either, and didn't take your observations that way and am not belittling your choice at all. There are lots of choices out there these days. Good conversation about them helps others out who may be on the fence.

In reading your posts Ratbert you seem to do a lot of small group shooting, and that's just great. I can see where a finer aiming point would be advantageous in that respect. I don't really shoot groups too much. I do it as a necessary evil to check my fundamentals. I like Franks dot drill target and have started using that rather than shooting groups.

I haven't studied the reticle you have a lot, but if you look at the Gen II reticle dimensions there is a lot that is useful right around the center aiming point, what with the center "cross hair" the small gap in between, the dimensions between the dots, etc. You can break that area down into some pretty useable measurements when it's needed.

It's all good, pick something that works for you and practice until you can drive the rifle under difficult situations.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It's all good, pick something that works for you and practice until you can drive the rifle under difficult situations. </div></div>

+1
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I totally agree on the usefulness of the 0.2 dots and the ability to break it down. I currently use the Gen II in the Premier on my main rifle and I really like it. Shooting groups or shooting the dot drills, it's still about picking a good POA on a really small target and executing (rather than, say, being about reading the wind to hit 2-3MOA steel). I personally do this a lot because I'm limited to 200yds at my 'local' range and I'm still building fundamentals of trigger control and NPA; when I practice for the wind I have to switch to a 22LR most of the time.

Here's a thread with pics of John's ret, so you can see what I'm talking about. The only modification I'd want to the Gen II is to replace the illuminated center 0.8 MRAD part with the dot the way John has it (and then, obviously, illum the main crosshairs)

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=772291

 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

Now let's talk about Premier making the Heritage in the Gen II XL which is my favorite reticle....I really wish they would
smile.gif


Oh well..... I can dream
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now let's talk about Premier making the Heritage in the Gen II XL which is my favorite reticle....I really wish they would
smile.gif


Oh well..... I can dream</div></div>

yeah, mine too, though I still wish it had the aiming dot
laugh.gif


 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

The MP-8 is similar to the GAP Mil-scale on my SN3-T-Pal Canadian, except for the center dot.
Is it your experience that it is more accurate with a dot, or with a space or circle around where the dot/target should be centered (allowing the mind to center target, instead of placing dot over target)?
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now let's talk about Premier making the Heritage in the Gen II XL which is my favorite reticle....I really wish they would
smile.gif


Oh well..... I can dream </div></div>
Did you mean GenII XR? Or did they make a GenII XL of which I'm not aware?
If GenII XR, they offer it on both Heritages: http://www.premierreticles.com/Products%20Home.html
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

Ah. Thanks for the pic. Does look nice. Looks like a GenII mil-dot with only certain dots and the central cross-hair illuminated.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

As for the dot vs circle question, I couldn't say. I do know I found it very easy to pic a point of aim @ high magnification with the dot. @ 0.1MRAD that dot is not much bigger than the hole a .308 is going to make. It was very easy to simply place the dot where I wanted the hole, no muss, no fuss, no guesswork. If the dot had been any bigger it would have been a different story. Without any dot at all I'm not sure I could have reliably centered my POA unless the target was also a circle of appropriate size.


 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnAE308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah. Thanks for the pic. Does look nice. Looks like a GenII mil-dot with only certain dots and the central cross-hair illuminated.
</div></div>

Hense the 'XL' for "eXtra Light"
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I think the key to a center dot over a cross hair is the ability of the shooter to focus on a dot better than a plus sign + I think a dot lets you see your point of aim more clearly. Keep in mind a stadia lines running up/down left/right will not help, a "floating" dot I think works.

When I go to a Duplex or a Mil Dot I find myself to a edge, like the 9 o'clock of the target I am aiming at. Not center mass of the pin point target I want to engage.

In other words its hard for me to aim a + on a 1" dot @ 100yds and get my POA center mass of that dot.

Now, take a .36" dot in the reticle, its very easy to keep it center mass of a 1" dot @ 100yds.

Same holds true for a 10" MOA X ring at 1000yds. The challenge is for the bullets to go where I want them too in the 10" dot
smile.gif


I think alot of others have found the alignment of a circle in a circle easier than a + in a circle.

Its just one more way to skin a cat.

John
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I find it much easier for me to have the + dividing a round circle into four equal "pies" than trying to have a dot center in a circle.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it much easier for me to have the + dividing a round circle into four equal "pies" than trying to have a dot center in a circle. </div></div>

Yes sir, that's the great thing about the market we all live in, we get to pick and chose what we like and can use.

John
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

We got some Gen 2 mildots in, and one thing I noticed that in low light, when turned down to low power, the illuminated center acts like a red-dot. With the four thick bars going toward the middle, a space, and them a bright red aiming point, it's very fast and intuitive for close-in engagements or hunting. SWEET!

Scott

 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

Here are some pics of the Gen 2 XR reticle of my Premiere Heritage. Top is non illuminated, bottom is illuminated. I hope to take some of targets at range later this week. Both are at 15x magnification.

PremRet.jpg

PremRetIllumOn.jpg
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

I wish US Optics would pick up the A5 reticle JB did up for the SH IOR.......
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

My buddy had the Gen2XR for about 15 minutes before it was traded for a Mildot! XR seems to be designed to be better suited for the 5-25's.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My buddy had the Gen2XR for about 15 minutes before it was traded for a Mildot! XR seems to be designed to be better suited for the 5-25's. </div></div>

Pls elaborate. How is the XR more suited to the 5-25? People use 10x all the time for 1K.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

Below 6-7 power the reticle seems too fine! He has had both of them and perhaps he'll join in here to share his views?
grin.gif
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

reading this thread has me second guessing my choice of the XR.
frown.gif
I guess I'll figure it out when it gets here.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luvman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reading this thread has me second guessing my choice of the XR.
frown.gif
I guess I'll figure it out when it gets here. </div></div>

No worries. If you aren't happy when you look through it, we'll swap you out. The XR does grow on you, so take a little time to convince yourself one way or the other.

On our orders, we have a 5:1 ratio in favor of the XR.


Scott
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luvman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reading this thread has me second guessing my choice of the XR.
frown.gif
I guess I'll figure it out when it gets here. </div></div>

No worries. If you aren't happy when you look through it, we'll swap you out. The XR does grow on you, so <span style="font-weight: bold">take a little time to convince yourself one way or the other</span>.

On our orders, we have a 5:1 ratio in favor of the XR.


Scott </div></div>

How long do you get to convince yourself before trading it out? Just curious.

 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My buddy had the Gen2XR for about 15 minutes before it was traded for a Mildot! XR seems to be designed to be better suited for the 5-25's. </div></div>

Pls elaborate. How is the XR more suited to the 5-25? People use 10x all the time for 1K. </div></div>


I had a 5X25 S&B with the XR reticule I sold it without ever mounting it and got a P-4 Fine. The Gen11 XR was too fine for me at the lower powers it was almost invisible at 5X
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Addicted</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luvman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reading this thread has me second guessing my choice of the XR.
frown.gif
I guess I'll figure it out when it gets here. </div></div>

No worries. If you aren't happy when you look through it, we'll swap you out. The XR does grow on you, so <span style="font-weight: bold">take a little time to convince yourself one way or the other</span>.

On our orders, we have a 5:1 ratio in favor of the XR.


Scott </div></div>

How long do you get to convince yourself before trading it out? Just curious.

</div></div>

I think a day or two looking through it out of the box should be plenty. Spend time with the scope from bright sunlight to o'dark 30 and you'll be able to tell.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luvman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reading this thread has me second guessing my choice of the XR.
frown.gif
I guess I'll figure it out when it gets here. </div></div>

No worries. If you aren't happy when you look through it, we'll swap you out. The XR does grow on you, so take a little time to convince yourself one way or the other.

On our orders, we have a 5:1 ratio in favor of the XR.


Scott </div></div>
Now that's service you don't see everyday!
smile.gif
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

That is the great thing about these forums. You can always get a good understanding of the vendors who care about what they are doing. I have been here a short period of time, however, it has been plenty of time to see that Scott is one of those vendors. I see some of my future dollars heading in his direction.
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luvman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reading this thread has me second guessing my choice of the XR.
frown.gif
I guess I'll figure it out when it gets here. </div></div>

No worries. If you aren't happy when you look through it, we'll swap you out. The XR does grow on you, so take a little time to convince yourself one way or the other.

On our orders, we have a 5:1 ratio in favor of the XR.


Scott </div></div>
Now that's service you don't see everyday!
smile.gif
</div></div>


the heritage will be my second purchase from Scott. I have my third and fourth optic purchases from him already planned. as long as Scott's service is like this I'll go out of my way to buy from him!!!
 
Re: GenII mil dot VS GenII XR

It gets kind of old hearing guys fawn over Scott and some of the other vendors here, but the fact is in a time of such fucking stellar mediocrity being the norm, it is a worthwhile effort to note those who excel at CS.

In addition to the Premier Heritage I am awaiting, I have bought a Kowa spotter, at least 1 MKIV, and rings and bases etc from Scott. I am perfectly willing to send thousands of dollars to him because I trust him. It is reassuring to not have to worry about anything because he will worry about everything.

I have said it before, but we are truly blessed to have the likes of Scott, the guys at USO etc. as suppliers. Thanks a lot.
 
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