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German Surplus

agshooter

Private
Minuteman
Aug 5, 2009
26
0
44
Virginia
Just wondering what your thoughts on shooting surplus ammo. The gun shop had israeli and german and advised me to get teh German. I havent shot it yet, just curious what your thoughts about using it for paper punching or hunting is.

thanks
 
Re: German Surplus

Ask them if either one is boxer and if either one is corrosive.

Go for the non-corrosive boxer primed if possible, if not, then get the boxer primed and deal with the corrosive primers how you'd wish. That's a different topic of discussion.

Without any other information on what caliber, bullet type, years of manufacture, etc you're talking about, that's the best I can offer you.
 
Re: German Surplus

ok the box label says...
AB22
7.62 x 51, DM 41
weichkern
los dag-69-27

on the casing around the primer - Dag 69 27 and the primers have some green looking paint/sealer??

know anything about these rounds?
i got them for $12/box of 20
thanks in advance
 
Re: German Surplus

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the reloading section



Oh God i'm so going to hell! </div></div>

you are correct, and since there isnt an "Ammo" section this would be in my opinion the best place to ask about ammo. Afterall, reloading requires some good bit of knowledge of ammo, no?

awfully up tight dont you think?
 
Re: German Surplus

I did edit my post, it used to say something to the effect that German ammo is good enough to get people into special camps, and those people now use there ammo to kill rock throwing boys screaming Jihad, it's all GTG, buy it shoot it enjoy it.
 
Re: German Surplus

There is very little 308 that is corrosive.

Corrosive ammo in general was made prior to 1958. The compound used in the primer - fulminate of mercury is what makes it corrosive. Due to international treaties on mercury in industry, pretty much all countries have quit using it in primers.
7.62 X 51 became standard after this happened. Anything with the NATO headstamp (crosshair in a circle) is just about guaranteed to be non-corrosive.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: German Surplus

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is very little 308 that is corrosive.

Corrosive ammo in general was made prior to 1958. The compound used in the primer - fulminate of mercury is what makes it corrosive. Due to international treaties on mercury in industry, pretty much all countries have quit using it in primers.
7.62 X 51 became standard after this happened. Anything with the NATO headstamp (crosshair in a circle) is just about guaranteed to be non-corrosive.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Yes sir, the only reason I threw out the corrosive question was because he made no mention of caliber and it's always on my mind when picking up surp ammo for 54R or any of the x57 Mauser rounds.

I have some 54R and 7.62x25 from the early 70's that came out of combloc plants which is corrosive. Seems Russia didn't give two shits about mercury usage.

EDIT: From Grump's comment it appears Russia's use of corrosive primers wasn't mercury based, but (and I seem to remember this now from making fireworks in HS) from the perchlorates. I found the chlorates work better for firecrackers, but that's another story... Either way, the commies still made stuff that rusted bores out in short order all the way into the Carter era.
 
Re: German Surplus

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did edit my post, it used to say something to the effect that German ammo is good enough to get people into special camps, and those people now use there ammo to kill rock throwing boys screaming Jihad, it's all GTG, buy it shoot it enjoy it. </div></div>

i see your sense of humor, it's as you say GTG.
 
Re: German Surplus

"The compound used in the primer - fulminate of mercury is what makes it corrosive."

NOT quite, son.

Your arms and ammo and technology and chemistry info is stuck in the cowboy days. The first big "change" in primer chemistry was more than 100 years ago, with the move to "non-mercuric" primers which were based on one of the chlorates* (ammonium or sodium, I don't recall as it was before my time) as an oxidizer and some sort of fuel.

Mercury fulminate was okay for black powder cartridges getting a few reloads, as their 10-20KPSI pressures didn't really compromise the strength of the brass IF they were washed out shortly after firing. Brass + mercury was a disaster with smokeless cartridges.

Sodium perchlorate is, chemically, table salt with a bunch of oxygen added to the molecules in some structure I don't remember precisely right now. All of these oxidizers, like NaCl, attract water like a sumb**ch, and make things rust even in pretty low-humidity environments.
_____
* I worked one summer at a chemical plant which made ammonium perchlorate and ammonium chlorate. The water solution of either salt, if spilled on your clothes, will turn the cloth into a large strike-anywhere match! A few years later after graduating college, another local factory making the stuff had pretty much all of their inventory from the buildings to the loading dock blow in a series of explosions sparked by--what else--a pair of welders who were careless on a job in the DRYING ROOM of the plant.
 
Re: German Surplus

".... shooting surplus ammo. The gun shop had israeli and german and advised me to get teh German."

Well, it sorta seems anything military in old Europe is "surplus" to their needs, doesn't it?

Me, I'd put my money on anything Isreali instead.
 
Re: German Surplus

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">".... shooting surplus ammo. The gun shop had israeli and german and advised me to get teh German."

Well, it sorta seems anything military in old Europe is "surplus" to their needs, doesn't it?

Me, I'd put my money on anything Isreali instead. </div></div>

Same here. Of the two, one is distinctly more serious about the efficacy of it's munitions!
 
Re: German Surplus

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">German .308 is typically of very high quality, and DAG means it is made by Dynamit Nobel. They use a bi-metal jacket in 7.62x51mm that has been proven to fragment readily.

Found a pic in a thread I posted in a while back on another site:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=453064&page=1

</div></div>

Know where I can get some ballistic specs on the DAG stuff?
 
Re: German Surplus

My experience with German NATO 7.62 (MEN-85 headstamp, purchased mine off the shelf at Sarco) was that it was Berdan, hot, and accurate.

My guess about the Isreali is that it's probably Boxer made by IMI. IMI brass is considered (at least be me, anyway) among the very best, as good as LC or better, and I've heard of it being described as match quality.

The idea that the Isreali's would issue their IDF with anything less than the very best stuff available is truly ludicrous.

Greg