Night Vision Getting Serious about NODs; Seeking advice on set-up (Thermal + NVS)

[Tx_Flyboy]

Like the title says, I'm looking to purchase NODs in the not too distant future (a few months, or now, if the pricing is agreeable).

I am not made of money, however, i would like highly functional/effective set-up suitable for my application (static hunting over feeders) .

Requirements:

* Hard(ish) budget of $5,000 (to include all accessories, mounts, etc).

* Weight...NVS shall be no heavier than a high-end 30mm day rifle scope...I'd love to keep the weight round 2lbs.

* Durability...NVS must withstand 7.62x51 recoil...this is a deal-breaker. Most of my hunting rifles are .30cal and the NVS needs to be able to be mounted on any of them. Are NVS capable of handling .300WM recoil?

* Wide field of view. Hog hunting presents opportunities for rapid acquisition/engagements...high-magnification, low FOV scopes are not well suited for this application.

While the vast majority of my hunting will be very close range (100yards or less), there are limited opportunities for "long" shots (~200-300yards max). I would also like to keep open the possibility of being able to hunt in open fields that allow longer shots without having to buy additional equipment...but maybe i'm dreaming.

With the above out of the way, the limited research i've done has pointed to the following:

1. Thermal imager for scanning/navigation. Thinking FLIR PS-24 or equivalent (i'm really only familiar with FLIR...no clue as to alternate or equivalent systems at same price point)

2. Gen 3 NVS for identification/engagement. I've mainly only looked at TNVC's website. I REALLY love the specs on the AN/PVS-12 4X Aquilar,& would not mind bending the budget to get one however, with a weight of 4lbs and a limited FOV, its veering on the not practical range...I'm left with M-845 Gen3 NVS. It meets all my criteria (Gen3 NVS, weight, budget,) however, i'm concerned about being able to make precise shots at the upper end of my range requirement with a 2MOA dot. I don't know how easy to discern this dot will be in a rapid engagement scenario. Furthermore, i don't know whether TNVC offers traditional plex reticles for this scope.

3. Independent IR illuminator for those nights when starlight/moonlight is non-existent. Thinking TNVC's Torch Pro, however, i also don't know what else is available on the market.

4. Helmet w mount...is the PS-24 helmet mountable? If not, i can put the funds elsewhere.

I hope i have narrowed the requirements enough to get informed input. Please advise if further information is required to better focus the responses. Thanks in advance.

Also, What are the opinions of Armasight? I see their ads on here, but never posts about their products?

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Like the title says, I'm looking to purchase NODs in the not too distant future (a few months, or now, if the pricing is agreeable).

I am not made of money, however, i would like highly functional/effective set-up suitable for my application (static hunting over feeders) .

Requirements:

* Hard(ish) budget of $5,000 (to include all accessories, mounts, etc).

* Weight...NVS shall be no heavier than a high-end 30mm day rifle scope...I'd love to keep the weight round 2lbs.

* Durability...NVS must withstand 7.62x51 recoil...this is a deal-breaker. Most of my hunting rifles are .30cal and the NVS needs to be able to be mounted on any of them. Are NVS capable of handling .300WM recoil?

* Wide field of view. Hog hunting presents opportunities for rapid acquisition/engagements...high-magnification, low FOV scopes are not well suited for this application.

While the vast majority of my hunting will be very close range (100yards or less), there are limited opportunities for "long" shots (~200-300yards max). I would also like to keep open the possibility of being able to hunt in open fields that allow longer shots without having to buy additional equipment...but maybe i'm dreaming.

With the above out of the way, the limited research i've done has pointed to the following:

1. Thermal imager for scanning/navigation. Thinking FLIR PS-24 or equivalent (i'm really only familiar with FLIR...no clue as to alternate or equivalent systems at same price point)

2. Gen 3 NVS for identification/engagement. I've mainly only looked at TNVC's website. I REALLY love the specs on the AN/PVS-12 4X Aquilar,& would not mind bending the budget to get one however, with a weight of 4lbs and a limited FOV, its veering on the not practical range...I'm left with M-845 Gen3 NVS. It meets all my criteria (Gen3 NVS, weight, budget,) however, i'm concerned about being able to make precise shots at the upper end of my range requirement with a 2MOA dot. I don't know how easy to discern this dot will be in a rapid engagement scenario. Furthermore, i don't know whether TNVC offers traditional plex reticles for this scope.

3. Independent IR illuminator for those nights when starlight/moonlight is non-existent. Thinking TNVC's Torch Pro, however, i also don't know what else is available on the market.

4. Helmet w mount...is the PS-24 helmet mountable? If not, i can put the funds elsewhere.

I hope i have narrowed the requirements enough to get informed input. Please advise if further information is required to better focus the responses. Thanks in advance.

Also, What are the opinions of Armasight? I see their ads on here, but never posts about their products?

Hi,

I feel you're on the right path with scanning with thermal, and PID with NV is a must. The PS-24 are not helmet mountable even though I have seen some DIY mount projects for the PS-24. Just be aware walking around with a thermal on your head is not easy vs. a regular NVD.

While the Aquila 4X is a great scope, it does have a bit narrower FOV (10deg) vs. the M845 which is such a fast scope with it's 2MOA red dot, but as you mentioned, if you have longer ranges at 300 yards you will be limited with the 2.8x arena. Both are rated up to and including 7.62 NATO.

The TNVC Torch Pro is a very versatile system that can reach 800 yards and can use any Surefire pressure switch or tailcap. It has a silky smooth bezel that can go from 1deg out to 10deg beam width. I am sure others will chime in here but please feel free to give us a call, be happy to talk all the details as well. Thanks,


Vic

 

[Delta4-3]

I carry several Armasight options that would fit your requirements and be under your budget. Most of my customer base is here, so I won't tell you they are the best thing ever. If they want to, there are plenty of people here with them that can chime in.

Thermal is not really a great choice for navigating, but has it's merits. If you are only going to get one device, I would not recommend thermal.

We are having a large night vision event outside of Austin in October. It may be good to come by and get to look at some of the options first hand and shoot them at various ranges, on various guns, and get a feel for what may suit your needs best.
I can go into more detail, or answer any questions you may have, but I was going to let consumers chime in before I go all keyboard crazy.

 

[wigwamitus]

With only $5k in your total budget ... did I read you right? You'll have to compromise!! I had $14k in my recent NV budget and I had to compromise

With your 7.62 recoil/show stopper requirement ... I first think of the PVS-14 RC ... which can give you helmet mounted navigation and weapons mounted NV (behind an aimpoint/eotech type sight). You might be able to squeeze into a 14RC with helmet and mounts for close to $5k.

another option is to give up weapons mount, use ir-laser on the weapon and PVS-14 (non-RC, recoil not an issue) on helmet. Try to spend every penny on getting the highest SNR you can get for the 14. That and your helmet and mount will chew up most of your $5k, then you can get a laser-max ir-laser and still have a shooting solution as well as a nav solution. If you have any pennies left over, get a second laser-max ir-laser for your second rifle. Zeroing these less expensive IR-lasers to a given rifle is less hassle than moving them around. They don't have clickable knobs like scopes.

if hunting is your primary priority and nav is secondary, then go for the best thermal weapons sight you can squeeze in to your budget. Thermal's advantage is seeing the creatures, not navigating.

With $5k I don't see how you can get "everything" ... I couldn't with $14k ... you will have to compromise, you can probably only get one good device. For general NV purposes, I'd go with the best 14 you can get. And use an ir-laser for aiming. If your priority is to hunting and you can do it from mostly stationary spots, or in known pastures or can use other means to navigate at night, then go with thermal weapon sight.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Vic,

Thanks for the reply and offer to listen to my needs. I will be calling TNVC, but probably not till the following weekend due to work schedule.

I understand my budget is a bit constraining, and it is not set in stone. I just want to get into Quality NVDs without going crazy and getting it as close to right the first time as i can.

I do have something of a technical question; What is the difference in the internals of the M-845/PVS-4 vs D740/760 vs Aquilar 4x/6X? Specifically, do they provide the same ability to discern detail as say the Pinnacle PVS-14 night enforcer? If not, how would you rate these scopes against the PVS-14 and against each other?

Delta 4-3,

Thanks for the heads up on the Texas Shoot/demo. That sounds like a great idea, and i will try to hold off until after the event.

Could you please post some of your recommendations so i can start researching them? Any other helpful pointers you can include is greatly appreciated.

Wigwamitus,

You aren't kidding. I understand i have to compromise. While my budget is constraining, i expect a quality functional set-up that will be suitable for the application (not the same as best for the application).

I understand i may have to back off on the budget and weight constraints. It seems that one will end up with a heavy rifle after you add in the weight of a bipod, suppressor, NVDs and ammo...that's a fact i probably should come to terms with.

Looking forward to the responses.

 

[j-huskey]

Actual use will show you the shortcomings of cheaper equipment, and using cheaper equipment will require you adjust your tactics, eventually cheaper equipment and bad tactics will teach the animal until the most high $ equipment can't overcome the animals trained ability.
You in good heath will let you overcome weight and those issues, but injury and age will leave you sucking wind, and equipment will get left behind, approaching 60, how well I know this.

I started using night vision about 40 years ago when it was as big as two footballs and not worth a shit on dark nights any way you did it. I used company equipment for 25 years before I bought my first nv, a pvs-22 equivalent, the bns, and an illuminator because the sniper scope I was issued didn't cut it. I used it over 10 years and still use it now, but it's not choice 1.
I used a pvs14 for years from Gen 1 to 3 plus. I own 3+ now from night optics. I use it for driving, walking, and close id. I will never be without a pvs14. I found out, no matter the quality, some illuminator is always required. I have also found out the close range low power illuminator is way more important than a 800 yard blinder.
I have used several hand held thermals for finding game that you can't see in nv. Mine do not meet your budget at all. I could not function with out thermal for locating the item I need to shoot, no matter what it is...... there are thermals out there you can use that work well enough you can get by, but you get exactly what you pay for.
I bought a night optics d 730 and it works. Better than most of those listed above.
I found out the hard way, you can't shoot what you can't see when the absolute cheapest atn thor was getting kills beside me where nv was boar hog tit useless I have a couple of other posts on the board about several of things mentioned here, please go look them up and read them. I will answer any questions you come up with off any of my posts.

I will stop with this, research, research, research, then buy once, cry once. You won't regret it.

 

[Delta4-3]

Sure, I would be glad to. The most popular unit I have right now is the CO-X.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-night-vision-devices/261573-gen-3-co-x-sale.html
Then there is the Gen2 HD CO-X. I have sold more of those lately, than anything else, due to the price of $2,175 and really high performance for said price. That leaves room to start looking at other gear as well.

You mentioned a PVS-12 as well. I have some of those, as well as the Armasight Vulcan. They both have their attributes. The PVS-12 is built like a tank, and has great glass, which you know instantly looking through it. The Vulcan is lightweight and really quite small for what it is, without sacrificing image quality.

Thermals...the Apollo has done really well for me. I usually can sell those well below what they are listed for online.

Everyone has different uses for night vision, so one set of advice is rarely accurate across the board. However, my personal priority is helmet mounted night vision. In part, because I really enjoy the nostalgia of walking around in the dark with NODs on, but also for other reasons. It lets me observe everything without pointing a weapon at it, and it also keeps me from having to wear my arms out with said weapon.
Anyway, If I can be of help let me know. I will say, that you will do well with any sponsor here. I have yet to hear of one of them treating a customer poorly.