Suppressors Glock 19 cycling issue with suppressor. Seeking Advice

[Pappyreds]

Greetings lady’s and gents! Looking for some suggestions..

I picked up my rugged obsidian 9 suppressor today, and headed to the range.

The gun/host:
Glock 19 (slide was sent in to be cut for optic).
NineX19 threaded barrel
Factory internals

After mounting the supressor, I fired the first shot. Slide locked back, past the slide lock position. I could not get the slide to go forward. What I found was, the slide reciprocated so far back, that the barrel caught the slide cuts.

The obsidian 9 has 2 configurations. The full length, and half length. I tried firing some rounds down range with the supressor in the short configuration. Same problem occurred, however I was able to get at least half a mag down range, before the jam.


Note: The gun cycles just fine without the suppressor


I’m thinking the gun may be over gassed? I was speaking with a buddy at the range, he believes that the slides reduced weight (due to the cuts), is causing the gun to cycle extreamly fast/hard, with the added weight, and pressure from the suppressor.

I’m wondering if changing the recoil spring/rod would help?

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated!

I’m going to attach a few pictures.

 

[Zak Smith]

No gas system, can't be "over gassed."

There is no way for the slide to go back further or to lock on anything other than the slide stop/release lever. Unless parts are broken or the wrong parts are installed.

Wrong parts, broke, or assembled wrong.

 

[Pappyreds]

No gas system, can't be "over gassed."

There is no way for the slide to go back further or to lock on anything other than the slide stop/release lever. Unless parts are broken or the wrong parts are installed.

Wrong parts, broke, or assembled wrong.

Thanks Zach for the input! Iv attached a picture where the barrel is catching the slide. It’s interesting because this is never an issue shooting without the Supressor

 

[Zak Smith]

It's hard to tell from the photo, but when I rack a G19 fully it doesn't go back as far as the one in your photo #2 based on the relationship between the last cocking serration and the rear of the frame.

Are you sure you don't have a "Gen" mismatch between the barrel and the gun?

 

[Pappyreds]

It's hard to tell from the photo, but when I rack a G19 fully it doesn't go back as far as the one in your photo #2 based on the relationship between the last cocking serration and the rear of the frame.

Are you sure you don't have a "Gen" mismatch between the barrel and the gun?

Im tracking down my receipt of purchase from the barrel. I believe it is the right match, but I’m going to double check. Here’s two more photos that may help .

 

[wade2big]

Seems to me that your slide cut is the issue. It extends to far to the rear.

 

[Pappyreds]

Seems to me that your slide cut is the issue. It extends to far to the rear.

That’s what I’m thinking, but I don’t understand why it cycles just fine without the suppressor.

 

[wade2big]

That I don’t know. I know nothing about pistol suppressors other than they require a booster. I don’t know if that makes them recoil a bit harder than without the suppressor but it seems as if it does (slide speed).

 

[Pappyreds]

That I don’t know. I know nothing about pistol suppressors other than they require a booster. I don’t know if that makes them recoil a bit harder than without the suppressor but it seems as if it does (slide speed).

yessir, i agree. Im wondering if a heavier recoil spring may help with the issue. My suppressor has a factory booster :/,

 

[Zak Smith]

Look, the mere fact that you can lock it back some further point past the regular slide lock point is proof that this combination of part/mods is fucked.

 

[wade2big]

yessir, i agree. Im wondering if a heavier recoil spring may help with the issue. My suppressor has a factory booster :/,

$10 for a spring is cheaper than a new slide. Worth a try.

 

[alamo5000]

Glock is not the best suppressor host. There was a recent thread on this.

Pistol Suppressor Questions

What’s the general consensus and science behind setting up a striker fired gun for suppressed use? I’m taking my new Omega 9K out tomorrow for the first time. Not my first suppressor. I have a few rifle cans and have my ARs tuned up to run efficiently and correctly. There’s lots of good info...

www.snipershide.com

 

[carbonbased]

Make sure you lube the piston. If it gets sticky the cycling has issues.

 

[Pappyreds]

Look, the mere fact that you can lock it back some further point past the regular slide lock point is proof that this combination of part/mods is fucked.

Zak...I have another glock 19 completely factory in front of me. I just locked the slide back...in order to drop the slide, you have two options... either use the slide release...or pull the slide FURTHER back, and let it go...

 

[carbonbased]

And I have a G19x with that exact suppressor and I have zero problems. It’s all stock, however.

I use only the can’s short config.

 

[wade2big]

Look, the mere fact that you can lock it back some further point past the regular slide lock point is proof that this combination of part/mods is fucked.

You are missing what he is saying. It stays back further because the barrel is hanging on the slide cut.

 

[Pappyreds]

$10 for a spring is cheaper than a new slide. Worth a try.

agreed! Im going to give it a shot.

 

[carbonbased]

After you lube the piston, put the can on the gun and pump it back and forth to make sure the grease gets in there. This may have e nothing to do with your problem, but it’s something I found out when my guns weren’t cycling well.

 

[Pappyreds]

After you lube the piston, put the can on the gun and work it back and forth to make sure the grease gets in there. This may have e nothing to do with your problem, but it’s something I found out when my guns weren’t cycling well.

Didn't think about that, ill make this a part of my routine. This is my first suppressor, so i need all the advice i can get! thank you

 

[Zak Smith]

Zak...I have another glock 19 completely factory in front of me. I just locked the slide back...in order to drop the slide, you have two options... either use the slide release...or pull the slide FURTHER back, and let it go...

Yes, they all do..

But you said this one, QUOTE

Slide locked back, past the slide lock position. I could not get the slide to go forward. What I found was, the slide reciprocated so far back, that the barrel caught the slide cuts.

No Glock is supposed to do that. Pistol is fucked regardless of the suppressor. QED.

Either it has the wrong parts, it's assembled wrong, or it's broken. I'd put faulty milling in category #3, if it that turns out to be the case.

 

[MK20]

Lube will only increase your problem as it will make your Nielsen device (piston) cycle faster.

Your problem is that you had a perfectly functional slide milled out so that it looks "cool" and whoever did the milling was a moron.

Your barrel locks into that cut when the can is on there because all that weight hanging off the end of your barrel levers the rear of the barrel up into the idiot hole some moron machined into your gun.

Unless you specified the exact dimensions and locations for those holes, the "gunsmith" owes you a new factory slide plus a refund for the cost of milling.

 

[Pappyreds]

Lube will only increase your problem as it will make your Nielsen device (piston) cycle faster.

Your problem is that you had a perfectly functional slide milled out so that it looks "cool" and whoever did the milling was a moron.

Your barrel locks into that cut when the can is on there because all that weight hanging off the end of your barrel levers the rear of the barrel up into the idiot hole some moron machined into your gun.

Unless you specified the exact dimensions and locations for those holes, the "gunsmith" owes you a new factory slide plus a refund for the cost of milling.

Roger that, thank you!

 

[alamo5000]

A video for future reference.

 

[MK20]

I should add that the reason that hole is a problem is that the slide reciprocated rearward PAST the point where the slide release holds it, then comes forward slightly to rest on the slide release.

I would bet you the guy who did the milling measured his cut based on where the rear of the barrel hood was when the gun was locked open, and not when at maximum rearward travel.

This has nothing to do with your can or slide velocity or anything like that. It has to do with a gunsmith whi is far too much like most gunsmiths and has no fucking clue how to understand at an intuitive and minute level how a gun actually runs as a system. He can tell you what each part does but he cannot see them all working together in his mind in 3D at every point in the gun's cycle.

I can and this is why I own thousands of dollars in tools and tooling. It is still far cheaper and more satisfying than dropping my gun off to some barely educated product of Louisiana swamp level incest to fuck up.

 

[Threadcutter308]

For whatever it's worth, I have an old -17 with a Storm Lake aftermarket threaded barrel and it works fine with my Obsidian 45. Other than the barrel, it's completely stock.

I'd suggest putting the OEM barrel back on and trying it, but pretty certain it isn't threaded for a can.

 

[Pappyreds]

I should add that the reason that hole is a problem is that the slide reciprocated rearward PAST the point where the slide release holds it, then comes forward slightly to rest on the slide release.

I would bet you the guy who did the milling measured his cut based on where the rear of the barrel hood was when the gun was locked open, and not when at maximum rearward travel.

This has nothing to do with your can or slide velocity or anything like that. It has to do with a gunsmith whi is far too much like most gunsmiths and has no fucking clue how to understand at an intuitive and minute level how a gun actually runs as a system. He can tell you what each part does but he cannot see them all working together in his mind in 3D at every point in the gun's cycle.

I can and this is why I own thousands of dollars in tools and tooling. It is still far cheaper and more satisfying than dropping my gun off to some barely educated product of Louisiana swamp level incest to fuck up.

hahah thank you. Got a good laugh out of this one. I guess this is what i get for wanting my gun to look "cool".

 

[MK20]

Yeah. Every glock that hasn't been dicked with other than dropping an aftermarket threaded barrel in I have ever seen runs fine.

Although if you do like in the above video and hang a suppressor that is the size needed for 300 WM off the end you will have return to battery issues sometimes.

Contrary to popular belief glocks are good guns suppressed as long as you keep them relatively stock and don't start changing too many things. That often will put the system "out of balance" and induce cycling issues.

There is a reason Tier One and others use Glocks.

 

[MK20]

hahah thank you. Got a good laugh out of this one. I guess this is what i get for wanting my gun to look "cool".

Cool is important.

If it doesn't work it isn't cool.

 

[B y r o n]

I know that there is no AR style air system on the Glock because it is a blow back action. What they have in common is that with an AR if there is to much gas it can be countered with a heavier buffer. The Glock slide has been modified and is lighter than stock. Since you can't add weight to the slide without installing an optic the only option is to increase the recoil spring rate. With the right spring weight the slide will be prevented from moving back as far and should function properly.

 

[Pappyreds]

I know that there is no AR style air system on the Glock because it is a blow back action. What they have in common is that with an AR if there is to much gas it can be countered with a heavier buffer. The Glock slide has been modified and is lighter than stock. Since you can't add weight to the slide without installing an optic the only option is to increase the recoil spring rate. With the right spring weight the slide will be prevented from moving back as far and should function properly.

Thanks! Iv already ordered one, it’s on the way. Figured can’t hurt, might help. I deff agree with MK20’s statements above. I think the cuts were done incorrectly. Gun runs flawlessly without the supressor though. maybe the added tension with this new recoil spring, might do the trick.

 

[MK20]

I know that there is no AR style air system on the Glock because it is a blow back action. What they have in common is that with an AR if there is to much gas it can be countered with a heavier buffer. The Glock slide has been modified and is lighter than stock. Since you can't add weight to the slide without installing an optic the only option is to increase the recoil spring rate. With the right spring weight the slide will be prevented from moving back as far and should function properly.

Technically it is short recoil, locked breech, not blowback, which is unlocked and relies on inertia and spring pressure.

 

[B y r o n]

Technically it is short recoil, locked breech, not blowback, which is unlocked and relies on inertia and spring pressure.

You are correct, except that short recoil or locked breech is nothing more than delayed blowback. The weight of the slide works in collaberation with the recoil spring. If the weight of the slide is reduced you need a recoil spring with a higher rate to compensate for the lower mass of the slide.

 

[Yondering]

I know that there is no AR style air system on the Glock because it is a blow back action. What they have in common is that with an AR if there is to much gas it can be countered with a heavier buffer. The Glock slide has been modified and is lighter than stock. Since you can't add weight to the slide without installing an optic the only option is to increase the recoil spring rate. With the right spring weight the slide will be prevented from moving back as far and should function properly.

No, no, and no. Almost everything you said here is wrong.

- ARs don't use an "air system". They are gas operated, that does not mean "air".
- Glocks are not a blow back action. They are a Browning style breech action, where the barrel tilts down to unlock. Blowback is like a cheap Hi Point pistol, or most pistol caliber carbines.
- Glocks do not have a buffer to counter "too much gas", and see point #1 on that anyway.
- A heavier recoil spring does not prevent the slide from moving back as far. If the gun cycles correctly, the slide will always come back to the stop at the rear, every time.

Unfortunately you are trying to give advice without understanding how any of this works. I suggest doing more learning before any more attempt at teaching.

 

[Yondering]

You are correct, except that short recoil or locked breech is nothing more than delayed blowback. The weight of the slide works in collaberation with the recoil spring. If the weight of the slide is reduced you need a recoil spring with a higher rate to compensate for the lower mass of the slide.

No again. Locked breech is NOT the same thing as delayed blowback. Blowback actions, delayed or not, operate by letting pressure in the bore push the bolt back.

A Browning style locked breech action is recoil operated, not pressure operated. The recoil generated by the bullet accelerating down the barrel is what pushes the slide backwards.

And with a suppressor, the booster piston pushes the slide backwards harder than unsuppressed, usually. (FWIW, the booster piston IS gas operated, but I know that's not what you were saying about "air systems" originally.)

 

[Yondering]

Thanks! Iv already ordered one, it’s on the way. Figured can’t hurt, might help. I deff agree with MK20’s statements above. I think the cuts were done incorrectly. Gun runs flawlessly without the supressor though. maybe the added tension with this new recoil spring, might do the trick.

You really should not take advice from that person. He doesn't have any idea what he's talking about here. Don't fall into the trap of thinking all input is good input.

As said by MK20 and Zak Smith, your slide cuts screwed up the slide. Those cuts are kind of stupid anyway; they're just windows to let trash inside the gun, and the reduced slide weight is NOT a benefit unless you're competing with very light loads. (The only benefit of that lightweight slide is the ability to cycle lighter loads.)

 

[B y r o n]

You really should not take advice from that person. He doesn't have any idea what he's talking about here. Don't fall into the trap of thinking all input is good input.

As said by MK20 and Zak Smith, your slide cuts screwed up the slide. Those cuts are kind of stupid anyway; they're just windows to let trash inside the gun, and the reduced slide weight is NOT a benefit unless you're competing with very light loads. (The only benefit of that lightweight slide is the ability to cycle lighter loads.)

So, what exactly is the solution for the problem? You claim that lighter slide weight has nothing to do with the problem but you offer no solution to resolve the issue. You say that the lighter slide works with very light loads so what does it do when used with a suppressor?

 

[Yondering]

So, what exactly is the solution for the problem? You claim that lighter slide weight has nothing to do with the problem but you offer no solution to resolve the issue. You say that the lighter slide works with very light loads so what does it do when used with a suppressor?

I did not say the lighter slide has nothing to do with it. Again, you've failed to understand.

Obviously the slide cycles a lot harder with the suppressor mounted, due to the force applied by the booster. That's true for most pistols with boosted suppressors, the light slide just makes it worse.

The solution is to use a slide without excessive lightening cuts that lock up on the barrel hood.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

And with a suppressor, the booster piston pushes the slide backwards harder than unsuppressed, usually. (FWIW, the booster piston IS gas operated, but I know that's not what you were saying about "air systems" originally.)

No it doesn't. It's not a piston at all, it is a linear decoupler that allows the barrel to retract without having to pull the silencer's full weight with it.

Slow mo:

 

[Yondering]

No it doesn't. It's not a piston at all, it is a linear decoupler that allows the barrel to retract without having to pull the silencer's full weight with it.

Slow mo:

Wrong; it is more than just a linear decoupler. Some random kid saying differently in a video doesn’t prove it, either.

If it was just a decoupling device, it wouldn’t make the gun cycle harder with a suppressor. Pressure forces the piston (there’s a reason it’s called a piston) and barrel back to cycle the slide.

The slow motion shot in that video proves it, too. The piston pushes the suppressor forward away from the frame before the slide and barrel move rearward.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Wrong; it is more than just a linear decoupler. Some random kid saying differently in a video doesn’t prove it, either.

If it was just a decoupling device, it wouldn’t make the gun cycle harder with a suppressor. Pressure forces the piston (there’s a reason it’s called a piston) and barrel back to cycle the slide.

The slow motion shot in that video proves it, too. The piston pushes the suppressor forward away from the frame before the slide and barrel move rearward.

I spent some time with Phil Dater once upon a time. It's called a Linear Inertia Decoupler or a Nielsen Device. It isn't a piston, the holes are superfluous, gas doesn't force it open, and pistol silencers slow slide velocity (all things being equal). I'm surprised you're so far off track on this.

 

[Yondering]

I spent some time with Phil Dater once upon a time. It's called a Linear Inertia Decoupler or a Nielsen Device. It isn't a piston, the holes are superfluous, gas doesn't force it open, and pistol silencers slow slide velocity (all things being equal). I'm surprised you're so far off track on this.

Good for you, surprised you didn’t learn more about it. Watch the video you posted, you can see it clearly.

I didn’t say anything about holes in the piston. It’s bore area and baffle surface that the pressure acts on. And yeah, I even have the same piston and suppressor in that video. The added recoil is clear and obvious.

If you can’t answer for yourself why a slide recoils HARDER, not softer, with a suppressor attached, then don’t try to teach someone else about it.

If it was only a decoupling device, recoil would be the same or softer; that’s pretty basic physics.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

 

[Yondering]

You still didn’t watch the first video you posted, did you? I guess it’s too much to expect you to watch this one too and understand what you’re seeing.

If it was not a piston, the suppressor wouldn’t get pushed away from the pistol frame as the booster pushed the slide open. A decoupler would only pull the suppressor rearward to some degree, but that’s not what happens. As both videos you’ve posted clearly show.

This is what happens when you rely on YouTube content creators to tell you what to think, instead of thinking for yourself. Video commentary does not equal truth.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

You still didn’t watch the first video you posted, did you?

I watched it.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

US9631888B2 - Quick connect for pistol suppressor - Google Patents

A quick connect for a pistol suppressor includes a housing having a first end, a second end, and a central bore with an upper portion, a lower portion, and an internal shoulder separating the upper and lower portions. A piston is within the central bore of the housing. The piston includes a...

patents.google.com

"The barrel of semi-automatic pistols recoils a short distance upon discharging a round before the slide is unlocked. Typically, the barrel of the pistol actually tilts causing the lugs on the barrel and the slide to separate, thus unlocking the slide and allowing the gun to cycle the action after each discharge. The addition of a suppressor to the end of the barrel of such a pistol generally interferes with the tilting of the barrel to cycle the action. It has been known to use a recoiled booster, also referred to as a Nielsen device or a linear inertial decoupler (“LID”), in order to permit the use of a suppressor with such pistols. The LID temporarily decouples the suppressor from the barrel allowing the firearm to properly cycle the action after each discharge."

 

[Cascade Hemi]

US8272306B1 - Adjustable silencer booster with spoked piston engagement shoulder - Google Patents

The herein proposed device relieves an autoloading handguns' barrel from the weight of the silencer allowing it to cycle properly. This improved booster housing for a silencer affords the user ten positions of orientation. A more robust orientation mechanism which minimizes rotational movement...

patents.google.com

"To understand how the Advanced Armament Corp. ASAP system works, a brief explanation of the design is necessary. The ASAP system isolates the mass of the silencer from the self-loading firearm. The interface piston is attached to the barrel of the self loading firearm by a mechanical attachment. The piston has a shaft with the mechanical attachment at one end, and a flange at the other end. There is a bore through the interface piston that allows free passage of the fired projectile. The silencer has a piston interface housing at the rear, with a stop for the piston in the forward end of the housing. The stop has a bore through which a fired projectile may pass unhampered, but is small enough that the piston head may not pass through. The piston interface is placed inside the piston interface housing so that the head of the piston rests against the piston interface stop at the forward end of the housing. A driving spring is placed inside the piston interface housing and around the piston shaft. The rear cap is attached to the piston interface housing via threads or another means of mechanical attachment, and has a bore through which the piston shaft may slide freely, but not the piston head. By installing the rear cap, the spring is held captive by the head of the piston and the inner face of the rear cap. When a silencer with an ASAP system is fired, the projectile travels down the barrel, through the bore in the attached piston, through the bore in the piston stop, and into the silencer. The gases propelling the projectile follow the same path as the projectile, but expand inside the silencer. These expanding gases push the silencer, piston interface housing, and rear cap forward against the tension of the spring. The spring and the piston are the only unsprung mass that is not propelled forward. As the weight of the silencer decouples from the barrel, the barrel is able to tilt downward at the rear, allowing the extraction and ejection of the empty cartridge case and the feeding of a live cartridge into the chamber. The driving spring then resets the silencer, piston interface housing, and rear cap back to their pre-fired position in anticipation of the following discharge."

What do Phil Dater, Greg Latka, and Mike Smith know about the subject compared to Yonderling? Nothing I guess.

 

[Yondering]

I watched it.

So answer the two simple questions I already asked you:

- Why does a pistol slide cycle harder and faster with a boosted suppressor attached, than with no suppressor or with an unboosted suppressor?
- Why does the suppressor in both videos above move forwards relative to the pistol frame before the barrel moves rearwards, if the booster is not pushing them apart with some added force?

Both of these conditions would be the opposite of what the slow motion videos show, if things were as you claimed.

Also, first thing you quoted there does not dispute what I said, nor does it back up your claim that I'm wrong. They also don't fully explain what is happening and why. The second one backs up what I said. It's literally right there, if you bothered to read.

 

[Yondering]

These expanding gases push the silencer, piston interface housing, and rear cap forward against the tension of the spring. The spring and the piston are the only unsprung mass that is not propelled forward.

What do Phil Dater, Greg Latka, and Mike Smith know about the subject compared to Yonderling? Nothing I guess.

Those guys obviously know a lot more than you, and they agree with what I've been saying. It's right there in bold.

If pressure is pushing the silencer forwards, then it's also pushing the piston and barrel rearwards. Equal and opposite reactions.

 

[akmike47]

Zak...I have another glock 19 completely factory in front of me. I just locked the slide back...in order to drop the slide, you have two options... either use the slide release...or pull the slide FURTHER back, and let it go...

That proves nothing it's designed to go back slightly farther not go back twice as far as it's meant to like yours is.

 

[Pappyreds]

That proves nothing it's designed to go back slightly farther not go back twice as far as it's meant to like yours is.

Thanks for the input.… read the context pertaining to the conversation… never was stated at any point, that slide goes back “twice as far”. That would be a catastrophic failure. With detrimental consequences.