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Gunsmithing Go / No Gauge

I

Icallem

Football Ref
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 10, 2011
643
399
67
N. Central MO
I ordered a barrel from jim at Northland. It is in stock and will ship next week. It is chambered in 6.5 Creedmore.

I can't track down a go gauge. Does anyone know where to look. I talked with Midway, and checked Sinclair website. Also called PTG and they are 4 weeks out (which is what Midway said).

Can I set the headspace off of a new shell?

Any ideas?

Thanks
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

I called, but they are closed. They show them to be in stock.

Thanks for the help.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

You can set the headspace off a new piece of brass full length sized in your die Not the best method but a lot of guns I know of were set up that way and they all shoot great
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a_bishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can set the headspace off a new piece of brass full length sized in your die Not the best method but a lot of guns I know of were set up that way and they all shoot great </div></div>
Nope, hate to say it, but NO, not an option
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X Ring Accuracy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a_bishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can set the headspace off a new piece of brass full length sized in your die Not the best method but a lot of guns I know of were set up that way and they all shoot great </div></div>
Nope, hate to say it, but NO, not an option </div></div>.

Please elaborate since this system has been working well for me since I first started messing with savages
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a_bishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X Ring Accuracy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a_bishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can set the headspace off a new piece of brass full length sized in your die Not the best method but a lot of guns I know of were set up that way and they all shoot great </div></div>
Nope, hate to say it, but NO, not an option </div></div>.

Please elaborate since this system has been working well for me since I first started messing with savages </div></div>


Whether it "works" isn't in question.

It's safety and legalities that are the problem.

Go and NoGo gauges are too inexpensive to use anything else.

I never have and never would headspace on a piece of brass.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

using a new piece of brass as a go gauge is likely to create headspace well under minimum specs. you are also more likely to end up with fired brass that can't be sized back with off the shelf sizing dies/shell holders. you may not end up with those issues but the likelihood is far greater than using a proper hs gauge.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

Keith,

If the OP is doing it for himself, as it sounds from the post, what are the "legal aspects"?

I understand that it may not be as safe as a gunsmith using go/no-go gauges but look at the sheer volume of Savage prefits are flying off the shelves. It sounds like most people at SavageShooters.com used either full-length size or brand new brass to headspace their barrels.

With 1,000's of rifles out there headspaced using unsafe (assuming they are unsafe) methods wouldn't we hear of blown up guns due to incorrect headspacing? The only pic of a blown up Savage was due to the guy not removing the bore sighter in the muzzle. The numbers (data) seem to indicate that the practice of headspacing using FL sized or new brass on Savage bolts actions is not that unsafe. I would gladly back down from this statement when data comes available that disputes my point.

I don't disagree that having a barrel headspaced with a set of gauges is not more safe, maybe like wearing a crash helmet when driving a car in addition to the seat belt and airbags.

Just my $0.02,

wade
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

Cases are anything but constant. Headspace is important. In more ways than just safety. The difference between a Go and NoGo is .004"


Gauges are cheap as hell, and I just offered info on a place that rents them, incase buying two $30 gauges is out of anyones budget.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

There are two potential problems with setting headspace off a piece of brass or loaded ammo.

If the brass or ammo is new or resized, then it is possible that it has a headspace dimension that is substantially less than the minimum chamber spec (ammo headspace varies wildly). This could obviously result in a chamber headspace that is under spec, and functional problems may result. This probably isn't the end of the world, but I'd personally be disappointed if one of my rifles wouldn't chamber a piece of in-spec ammo.

On the other hand, if a piece of ammo was fired in a chamber that was on the large side, then using that piece of fired brass may result in excessive headspace problem on the new setup. While I would not be concerned about "blowing up a rifle" with this scenario, it is possible that excessive headspace would eventually weaken the brass over several reloadings and cause case-head separations. That is not much fun.

If someone can afford the tools to be swapping barrels, then they can afford a set of gages. Hell, some of the ER Shaw Savage barrel kits include a set. If for some reason they fall into disuse, then it's pretty easy to find a buyer and recover most of the modest investment.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

Never ceases to amaze me as to how flippin cheap gun owners can be!!!!! Buy a new rifle, new scope and hundreds in options/accessories but be damned when it comes to safety and headspacing that a 20-30 cent piece of brass made by the truckloads on machines that are starting to wear out from day one is a good idea!!! Or depend on a set of dies made basically under the same conditions are suddenly a 'standard' for measurement!

Why in the hell do you people who DO NOT do gun work as a business feel it appropriate and competent to use or recommend to use something other than the proper guages and techniques to safely assemble a rifle???

Is it safe? Maybe! Have I used a piece of brass to set headspace on a new barrel? Yes, but only until the proper headspace guage showed up that was out of stock or backordered! This is for myself as rarely do work for others anymore. I am on disability but still tain't such a cheap bastard that I don't do it 'right'!

Sure as hell won't give someone else advice contrary to what I find as being safe! Especially for $25.

Sorry for my rant but damn I get sick and tired of someone with absolutely no clue on an internet forum giving out advice because they read it, seen it done or did it for themselves once. Do whatever in the hell you want with your own shit. Blow that high dollar rifle to shit, its yours!!! But dammit don't come on an internet forum and give out advice on something you don't know shit about to a stranger! What if your new brass is .010-.015 undersize? Or More? What if the dies you used to FL size are way long? It happens! Have you measured the shit you use? Doubt it!

DO NOT GIVE ADVICE about safety issues just because you can spell the words on your keyboard!!!!

Respectfully,
Dennis
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

don't sugar coat it, dennis. you can tell us how you really feel
grin.gif
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a_bishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can set the headspace off a new piece of brass full length sized in your die Not the best method but a lot of guns I know of were set up that way and they all shoot great </div></div> This is asking for trouble. Not from a safety standpoint so much but from reloading/troubleshooting standpoint it can be a real pain in the ass as you might wind up within spec., but you certainly might not as well.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

I do not disagree with anything that has been said since my post. The statements I questioned was the safety of setting headspace on a brass case. I do not do any gunsmithing for anyone but myself and I have sets of gauges for all of my reamers.

Recall I stated that the no/no-go gauge method was better I was addressing the safety of the operation.

There may be an issue with reloading but once again the proof is in the pudding as most of the guns set up that way shoot great given the non-custom nature of them.

wade
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">don't sugar coat it, dennis. you can tell us how you really feel
grin.gif
</div></div>

Sorry, I was wound tight this AM! Not a good nights sleep as usual!
smile.gif


Bragging about shooting "one ragged hole" groups @ 500yds with your $300 rifle/scope/ammo combo is one thing on the net but saying something so incompetent and stupid as "use a new piece of brass" to set headspace is not acceptable to me! Blow your own face off but don't be responsible for someone else injurying themselves or someone standing alongside.

Breath in.......Breath out........Breath in....
wink.gif
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

I have used 4D Reamer rentals several times. Great fellow to work with. Recently ordered (rented) a reamer and my chief lathe guy was injured the day it arrived. Could not get the job done for almost two weeks.
Explained what happened in a note when I returned the gauges and reamer...NO extra charge. Cannot be more fair than that.
Like others have said, don't risk your investment on a couple of weeks or a few dollars at this point.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

I checked on the Elk Ridge Reamer Rentals and it looks like they have them. I'll call tomorrow and check for sure. I didn't realize people would rent these out and was looking to buy.

I will not put this together without them, even if that means the 4 week wait from Midway.

Thanks again for all the advice.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Blow your own face off but don't be responsible for someone else injurying themselves or someone standing alongside.

Breath in.......Breath out........Breath in....
wink.gif
</div></div>

Breath in.......Breath out.... repeat as many times as you need to

What I claimed was that there are no cases I can find of anyone blowing there face off due to a mechanical failure traced back to the method of headspacing, and given the numbers of people doing it if there was say a 1% chance of a problem we would easily 10's of cases a year. Find more than one for me and I will agree that it is a very unsafe thing to do.

I never said it was a wise thing to do I just chimed in as I thought the trashing of gun owners who do it is not a great idea. Gunowners have enough people trying to trash us that we do not need to do it ourselves.

wade
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wwbrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Blow your own face off but don't be responsible for someone else injurying themselves or someone standing alongside.

Breath in.......Breath out........Breath in....
wink.gif
</div></div>

Breath in.......Breath out.... repeat as many times as you need to

What I claimed was that there are no cases I can find of anyone blowing there face off due to a mechanical failure traced back to the method of headspacing, and given the numbers of people doing it if there was say a 1% chance of a problem we would easily 10's of cases a year. Find more than one for me and I will agree that it is a very unsafe thing to do.

I never said it was a wise thing to do I just chimed in as I thought the trashing of gun owners who do it is not a great idea. Gunowners have enough people trying to trash us that we do not need to do it ourselves.

wade </div></div>

I sincerely apologize for my statements trying to make a point that WE as gun owners should practice safety ourselves and not promote potentially UNSAFE advice on the net!!! I will wait UNTIL <span style="text-decoration: underline">we know </span> of a gunowner or bystander that was actually injured by being cheap before I make false and blantantly untrue statements on the net in the future!!!! Again I will refrain from promoting preventative safety measures in the future!

Is that better???
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

Nothing wrong with having a new case around just to check for fit after assembly. Steel guages have the first and last word, though. I've seen some new brass with pretty wacky dimensions. Using it to set a headspace dimension would be foolish at best.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stangfish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do wildcatters do it? </div></div>

have the gauges made with the reamer?
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">don't sugar coat it, dennis. you can tell us how you really feel
grin.gif
</div></div>
LMFAO
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stangfish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do wildcatters do it? </div></div>

have the gauges made with the reamer? </div></div>

laugh.gif
I meant fire forming. If you reload and you know you stuff this isn't a problem. Truth is you can set headspace with a piece of brass. I don't do it but if you control what brass goes in, you could do it safely. Just some caveats. It would require experience in deminsional inspection of you cases.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X Ring Accuracy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a_bishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can set the headspace off a new piece of brass full length sized in your die Not the best method but a lot of guns I know of were set up that way and they all shoot great </div></div>
Nope, hate to say it, but NO, not an option </div></div>

I head space with brass on my lathe, but not when my brother and his lathe are involved.

He does not understand my hand waving, and must have a factory head space gauge to believe in.

With belted magnums, a .220" factory head space gauge makes a mess of things, like factory rifles.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

Called Elk Ridge Reamer Rentals yesterday. If there are better people to work with, they are giving things away.

Barrel shipped yesterday and gauges are being mailed today.

Thanks again for the help, as I said before, I had no idea people rent out this kind of stuff. I thought I would have to buy them and then have something else to fill a drawer on the tool box!
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

I would have to have more info before I could tell you if I would jump with just a paper bag.

How far is the jump?
How big is the bag?
How tuff is the bag?
What is behind me making me want to jump with just this bag?
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

What ultimately matters is the resulting headspace between the ammo and the chamber.
The method used to attain it is mostly inconsequential.

We use steel gauges because we trust them to be made to "the standard".
New (unfired) cases are certainly 0.003" or more shorter in shoulder length than a "go" gauge.

Any experienced reloader should have a method of measuring case shoulder length.
If you understand how to use such tools and how to adjust sizing dies, you can certainly set the headspace gap to any dimension you want once you have the fixed length of the chamber determined by measuring fired cases.

There's certainly nothing wrong with using a brass gauge IF you know it to be the right length.
The problem is how do you KNOW it's the right length?
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What ultimately matters is the resulting headspace between the ammo and the chamber.
The method used to attain it is mostly inconsequential.
</div></div>

n 1961 Deng said: "I don't care if it's a white cat or a black cat. It's a good cat as long as it catches mice."

Normally, that would result in prison time, but he got away with it, and went on to rule China.

What does it all mean?
The whole process must be kosher for inflexible fundamentalists.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The whole process must be kosher for inflexible fundamentalists. </div></div>

Well put.
Way too many people get hung up on the process vs. the results.
 
Re: Go / No Gauge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The whole process must be kosher for inflexible fundamentalists. </div></div>

Well put.
Way too many people get hung up on the process vs. the results.



</div></div>



Can I get an Amen?
 
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