Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

Walsh

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 5, 2009
754
0
39
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Hi, me again with another noobish question. I am thinking about saving up for "THE RIFLE" and have a few questions pertaining to the three fine cartriges; .223, .308, and the 30-06, and "THE" action; single shot or DBM.

First, the action.

If you had to have ONE rifle (and you knew the particular rifle was going to be a bolt action) would you rather have a single shot or a DBM action.

Of couse I made a "pros and cons" list.

Single shot-

Pros- Stiffer reciver, would this allow a heavier barrel with lees stress on the reciver?
Encourages better shot placement

Cons- Not good for rapid follow up shots


DBM (Surgeon or Badger for example)

Pros- Very fast follow up shots
"It's better to have the extra 9 rounds and not need them, than need them and not have them"
Better stock selection?

Cons- Not as stiff as an action as a single shot
encourages less precision shot placement because you still have 4-9 rounds left in the magazine

Ok, thats one question down, now to the other (if you have even read this far, I sincerly thank you for your time).

I know that a .308 in a 20" barrel can effectively get to 1k, and I know a 30-06 can do it to. But what are some of ya'lls average velocities from a .308 in a 20", 18", and 16" barrels, and a 30-06 in a 20", 18", 16" barrels. Preferably in a Kreiger barrel.

Also, what are ya'lls average velocities in a .223 20", 18", and 16" barrels?

Thank you so much, trying to get stuff all sorted out before I take even a half of a step.

Oh, before I forget, this rifle will be used for anything and everything, from plinking to hunting, so that kind of rules the .223 out, so the .223 question was just for my information.

One more thing, can you shoot a 5.56x45mm NATO in a .223 chamber (such as a .223 LTR) safely? I know you can't with an AR-15, just wanted to know about bolt guns also just to be on the safe side.

Thank ya'll so much in advance,
P.B.Walsh
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

Yes 308,
different barrels and chambers, though. The 20" is probably a touch "faster" than the 22" and the 16" is a factory SPS barrel that's probably a touch "slower" (and throated like a porn star, btw.)

Hopefully I should have a 17" 308 from Jered in the next few weeks. I'm thinking that should be right about the optimum length for anything other than F-class (where the bastards wouldn't let me use my suppressor, regardless) A little tweaking should make 2700 pretty easy (assuming I can find an accuracy node around there somewhere) and with the 155's BC that is all I'll need for anything I would want to do with a 308.
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walsh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi, me again with another noobish question. I am thinking about saving up for "THE RIFLE" and have a few questions pertaining to the three fine cartriges; .223, .308, and the 30-06, and "THE" action; single shot or DBM.

First, the action.

If you had to have ONE rifle (and you knew the particular rifle was going to be a bolt action) would you rather have a single shot or a DBM action.

Of couse I made a "pros and cons" list.

Single shot-

Pros- Stiffer reciver, would this allow a heavier barrel with lees stress on the reciver?
Encourages better shot placement

Cons- Not good for rapid follow up shots


DBM (Surgeon or Badger for example)

Pros- Very fast follow up shots
"It's better to have the extra 9 rounds and not need them, than need them and not have them"
Better stock selection?

Cons- Not as stiff as an action as a single shot
encourages less precision shot placement because you still have 4-9 rounds left in the magazine

Ok, thats one question down, now to the other (if you have even read this far, I sincerly thank you for your time).

I know that a .308 in a 20" barrel can effectively get to 1k, and I know a 30-06 can do it to. But what are some of ya'lls average velocities from a .308 in a 20", 18", and 16" barrels, and a 30-06 in a 20", 18", 16" barrels. Preferably in a Kreiger barrel.

Also, what are ya'lls average velocities in a .223 20", 18", and 16" barrels?

Thank you so much, trying to get stuff all sorted out before I take even a half of a step.

Oh, before I forget, this rifle will be used for anything and everything, from plinking to hunting, so that kind of rules the .223 out, so the .223 question was just for my information.

One more thing, can you shoot a 5.56x45mm NATO in a .223 chamber (such as a .223 LTR) safely? I know you can't with an AR-15, just wanted to know about bolt guns also just to be on the safe side.

Thank ya'll so much in advance,
P.B.Walsh

</div></div>

First off do you reload???

IMO,there's other cartridges that blow in the wind less at distance,recoil less than 308 and arrive with as much or more energy,just saying.6.5 Creedmoor is a great choice if you do not reload.

You mention an all around gun.I like rifles that are more handy in the weight and length nowadays.

After messing around with different stocks,barrel weights...contours...lengths,actions,etc.I'm finding I prefer lighter stocks,medium length Tubb contour barrels with fast twists and detachable magazines.The Surgeon actions with the integral scope mount rail are my favorite so far.

IMO,Guns "too heavy" are better for prone shooting only.Guns "too light" are best for hunting.

Steve
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

I don't currently reload, but I plan to in the near future. I while I do notice the advantages the 6.5, 260 have, I like to keep things simple, and these 3 cartriges are fairly common rounds.

I intend to use a flash suppresor or suppresor with this rifle if that matters.

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

My vote is any of the three 6.5's ( 6.5x47 lapua, 6.5 creedmoor, or 260. )it is not a matter of keep simple. since you are starting from scratch why settle. the 6.5's out perform the 308
( I know here come all the guys who have 308 will start to post why their 308 are as good. )the fact is for long range shooting they are not. so do it right the first time
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

Ok, I'll consider the 6.5's, but can anykne give me anydata for the .223 in a 16", 18", and 20", how about the 30-06?

Dare I ask what about the 260 Rem. and the 6.5x47 Lapua both in a 20", 18" and a 16"?

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

Repeater surgeon, templar, defiance etc if you want a "stiff" action keeping with the stiffness consider a short barrel like 20" or less and a chambering that will be conducive to long range shooting in a shorty barrel .260rem and .308 come to mind...
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

You lose more speed per inch cutting down a 6.5mm barrel vs a 30 cal one, however downrange a good 6.5 bullet is still going to beat a 30 cal bullet from a barrel of any given length.

It all comes down to what you want to do. If you want to win competitions then you're really going the hard route if you shoot 308 vs 6.5-something. However a 308 will be ABLE to compete and you might even learn to be a better shooter if you're forced to pay attention to the wind more. It's a good solid general purpose round that's widely available.

A "one rifle" is inevitably going to be a rifle of compromises. It may be able to do many things but it probably won't be the ideal for any of them. Ideal is, IMHO, overrated though. If you wanted to be the BEST at something then you'd be building a specific rifle for a specific purpose. A general purpose rifle will get the job done, even if you don't bring home 1st place. My general purpose rifle would be:

308, 1:10 twist 18" Sendero contour (or similar) barrel
Surgeon round short-action modified for AW magazines
Surgeon bottom metal
Manners T3 stock
Atlas bipod

This will give you a relatively light but capable general purpose rifle with a myriad of ammo options and the capability to play most games well enough to enjoy. For glass, well, I could go on all day about various options but that is going to be FAR to dependent on what your budget is. In simple terms I'd be primarily looking for something in the 10-15 range top-end, mil/mil with parallax adjustment and a illuminated ret with an eye on weight and compactness. However you could possibly get a couple of different scopes for different apps (heavier more-feature laden S&B USMC for competition, then swap out a light little 2-7 Vortex for hunting, for instance)

I wouldn't get a 223 as my only rifle for reasons of hunting that you've mentioned. I see no reason to get a long action and have to deal with more weight and difficulty cycling the bolt without moving your head unless I was planning on shooting some sort of magnum or something. The 308 is just too similar to a 30-06 to justify the trouble. If you decide to get a DBM or some sort of internal magazine (ie: BDL, Williams, Badger M4, ADL) definitely don't get a single-shot. Those are for dedicated benchrest type competition guns, NOT a general purpose rifle.
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

I will not be competing with this rifle, just target shooting and hunting.

I am going to put a Mcree stock on this rifle. How can you get a Surgeon to ve a DBM for in case I wabted to go the ADL route.

Can a Mcree stock be inletted for a BDL?

I think that ya'll have convinced to go the repeater route instead of single shot, thanks!!

Now I just have to figuer out the action; Surgeon, Badger, Stiller, Phoenix..... hmmmm, anybody got any suggestions?

I'm really thinking about Badger, and if Mcree can't make an inlet for that action, the it'll probaly be a Surgeon 591.

Any info on the ADL mods to the Badger or Surgeon, I'm all ears.

Thanks, and please keep up the suggestions,
P.B.Walsh
 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

Use the search link in Ratbert's signature line for optimal research on the 'hide.

How much experience do you have shooting distance? If its not thousands upon thousands of rounds, I would suggest forgoing the search for "the rifle" and get "a rifle". Buy a 308 SPS, drop it in the McRee stock you have already decided on (interesting choice if you have no experience with them or other good stocks by the way), get good rings and base, a repeatable reliable scope and shoot alot.

Get something that works, has available ammo, in a cartridge everyone knows ballistics and loads for (308) and shoot while you save up for "the rifle build" because things will change as you grow.

Refer to your own signature line and find what you need to work on first.

Hemiram has a well setup Savage 260 for sale that would be better than average starting point for anyone wanting to get into this game by the way.....

It is very common for folks to buy what they think is the best gear for them and them start shooting only to find that what they thought would work best for them doesn't. A reliable starter rifle and optics package used for 5000-10000 rounds (the barrel life of most 308's) will tell you what you want to know better than anyone can on the internet.

 
Re: Got some questions about a build on "THE RIFLE".

I will not build this rifle for another 1.5+ years (I'm 16, getting a job in the summer so buy that time Iwill have a bit more rounds under my belt.

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh