I am having a heck of a time getting a decent load for my Remington Varmint SPS .308. I decided to purchase a runout gauge because I was curious to see what kind of runout I was getting. Most of my loads are coming in with 0.004-0.006 runout. From what I have read most people strive for runout under 0.003. I only have standard RCBS full length sizing and seating dies. Would this make much of a difference? I guess I will also get someone else to shoot the rifle to make sure it's not operator error.
Grouping Issues
- Thread starter jpistolero02
- Start date
Re: Grouping Issues
Are your case necks clean? That's probably the number 1 cause of bullet runout.
Get a really qualified shooter to try a couple of 5 shot groups. He may do something that you are not.
Are your case necks clean? That's probably the number 1 cause of bullet runout.
Get a really qualified shooter to try a couple of 5 shot groups. He may do something that you are not.
Re: Grouping Issues
I have not cleaned the necks other than tumbling them. Thanks for the heads up.
I have not cleaned the necks other than tumbling them. Thanks for the heads up.
Re: Grouping Issues
I use a bore brush of the correct size mounted in a RCBS screwdriver handle. Twist some 4/0 steel woll into the bristles. Twist while pushing in, twist while pulling out. Clean necks.
Good luck.
I use a bore brush of the correct size mounted in a RCBS screwdriver handle. Twist some 4/0 steel woll into the bristles. Twist while pushing in, twist while pulling out. Clean necks.
Good luck.
Re: Grouping Issues
My first two groups with 175 MatchKings and 43 grains of Varget yielded .5 inch at 100 yards. I then took the rifle to get pillar bedded and it has not shot anywhere near that since. Most of the time it is hovering around an inch or slightly larger. The rifle is stock other than being outfitted with a McMillan A-5.
My first two groups with 175 MatchKings and 43 grains of Varget yielded .5 inch at 100 yards. I then took the rifle to get pillar bedded and it has not shot anywhere near that since. Most of the time it is hovering around an inch or slightly larger. The rifle is stock other than being outfitted with a McMillan A-5.
Re: Grouping Issues
Maybe it was a bad bedding job? Did you remove scope or changes rings or base? Checked rings and base to make sure there tight? I had the same issue when I bedded mine. But I also Changed the base to a Badger base. It needed to be bedded the rear when the front two screws were tightened down had a gap between the receiver and the base. Bedded it fixed it.
Maybe it was a bad bedding job? Did you remove scope or changes rings or base? Checked rings and base to make sure there tight? I had the same issue when I bedded mine. But I also Changed the base to a Badger base. It needed to be bedded the rear when the front two screws were tightened down had a gap between the receiver and the base. Bedded it fixed it.
Re: Grouping Issues
I did add Seekins rings at the same time. I will check the tightness on those and the base. The gentlemen that did the pillars and bedding is well respected so I would hope that is not the issue. I know it's two very different rifles, but I will shoot my .223 varmint and shoot lights out and then pick up the .308 and not hit the broadside of a barn. I will try and find someone else to shoot it for me. Thanks for all the help!
I did add Seekins rings at the same time. I will check the tightness on those and the base. The gentlemen that did the pillars and bedding is well respected so I would hope that is not the issue. I know it's two very different rifles, but I will shoot my .223 varmint and shoot lights out and then pick up the .308 and not hit the broadside of a barn. I will try and find someone else to shoot it for me. Thanks for all the help!
Re: Grouping Issues
I run RCBS standard dies as well. Durring seating I turn the cartridge 4 quarter turns with short press strokes untill completely seated. My runout has stayed at .003 or under with Hornady match brass.
Good luck
I run RCBS standard dies as well. Durring seating I turn the cartridge 4 quarter turns with short press strokes untill completely seated. My runout has stayed at .003 or under with Hornady match brass.
Good luck
Re: Grouping Issues
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LR-WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run RCBS standard dies as well. Durring seating I turn the cartridge 4 quarter turns with short press strokes untill completely seated. My runout has stayed at .003 or under with Hornady match brass.
Good luck </div></div>
+1...
I did that same thing for a long time. You CAN make match grade ammo with standard dies. You just have to know what & how to do it. To keep the runout low the case necks still need to be clean.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LR-WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run RCBS standard dies as well. Durring seating I turn the cartridge 4 quarter turns with short press strokes untill completely seated. My runout has stayed at .003 or under with Hornady match brass.
Good luck </div></div>
+1...
I did that same thing for a long time. You CAN make match grade ammo with standard dies. You just have to know what & how to do it. To keep the runout low the case necks still need to be clean.
Re: Grouping Issues
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Two</span> Three things.
The bedding job may have altered the overall barreled action's effective harmonics. Load redevelopement may be advisable.
Also, if you're shooting with a factory barrel, the chamber is likely cut to SAAMI specs, and smaller concentricity values may yield little benefit. BTW, .5" at 100yd with a factory barrel and 175's is not exactly sloppy, mind you. A BR shooter might weep, but I'd not.
Finally, I would verify the absence of foreign matter or other means of contact in the barrel channel.
Greg
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Two</span> Three things.
The bedding job may have altered the overall barreled action's effective harmonics. Load redevelopement may be advisable.
Also, if you're shooting with a factory barrel, the chamber is likely cut to SAAMI specs, and smaller concentricity values may yield little benefit. BTW, .5" at 100yd with a factory barrel and 175's is not exactly sloppy, mind you. A BR shooter might weep, but I'd not.
Finally, I would verify the absence of foreign matter or other means of contact in the barrel channel.
Greg
Re: Grouping Issues
Thanks for all the info. I was very frustrated so I decided to get some loads together this morning and get out to the ranch for some quick testing. Basically, I am trying the OCW method of loading as you can see by the 3 shot groups. I can't seem to get the higher charges to group in my rifle, so I am focusing on the lower node. I made sure to clean the necks really well this morning before seating the bullets and rotated the case halfway down. All runout measured .003" or less.
I think I am going to focus on 43.3 and tinker with the seating depths. All rounds were fired round robin style. The rifle is starting to show potential again.
Thanks for all the info. I was very frustrated so I decided to get some loads together this morning and get out to the ranch for some quick testing. Basically, I am trying the OCW method of loading as you can see by the 3 shot groups. I can't seem to get the higher charges to group in my rifle, so I am focusing on the lower node. I made sure to clean the necks really well this morning before seating the bullets and rotated the case halfway down. All runout measured .003" or less.
I think I am going to focus on 43.3 and tinker with the seating depths. All rounds were fired round robin style. The rifle is starting to show potential again.
