Just curious about thoughts on using gun cart / jogging stroller etc in prs style matches. I have seen them become more popular but there is the purist thoughts that everything should be carried. Not arguing either however it seems the sport in my opinion has become unrealistic in the core original principles ie. 20+ lb rifle setups shooting light recoiling cartridges, plates, etc. Throw your thoughts and opinions out there.
- Thread starter cjherrman
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If it is to be shooting and a combined athletic event like the tactical games then no, otherwise my nearing 60 year old body says bring it on. Oddly enough the main monthly match I shoot has a hill which makes use of a cart difficult to navigate so I reverted to a backpack. There are a few well heeled folks that use the side by side ATV's to haul themselves and their gear, more power to them.
Using one of those is like driving a minivan, your man card is revoked.
I get it and it’s funny but why? Aren’t all competitors looking to get any advantage they can? For example it seems like a way to get 10 different shooting bags to a stage and have your pick. Just curious why more don’t do it...yeah it’s not manly but people like wining more than worried about getting some shit. I know some matches it’s not allowed.
If you’re carrying so much shit with you that you need a stroller, then you just need to carry less shit.
My last comment was more hypothetical and just why aren’t more people using them. I run a pack but also tripod and binos, rifle. I recently heard a number of guys say they just leave their tripod and binos at their vehicle. I see a huge advantage to having them so not an option for me. Would it be more acceptable if it’s not a jogging stroller and a more tacticalish four wheel cart?
Those 30lb 6GT's aren't going to carry themselves.
Next people are going to need a caddy/sherpa those carts with 30lb gt rifles aren't going to pull themselves
Because it's gay.
If you rock a stroller for your guns it should be a requirement to wear khaki shorts hiked so far up that they're half way up your ass with a tucked in button up, white socks coming almost all the way up to your knees, velcro shoes, a fanny pack, and some goofy ass hat. If you're going to look like a dweeb, shoot for the fucking stars man.
I, for various reasons, have not yet shot one of the PRS events. I might make it to one, one of these days. I hope to before I expire. I am particularly interested in the 22LR stuff going on.
I was once active with some handgun events. These went from guys gathering to shoot what they had and used to guys buying or building what became known as race guns. It was sort of amazing to see what some of those guys could/can do (Miculek, others) but, in my opinion, and apparently others, this sort of ruined the events. I'm not trying to take away from what those amazing marksmen/athletes can do.
So they made new events and leagues.
Some events or levels, there are zero limits. Others, there are many limits. Some are intended to replicate what "Joe the Plumber" might be carrying in his butt crack...and those are the type I gravitate to (not to imply I like Joe's butt crack). What is capable with what is available "off the shelf". Of course, "off the shelf" is being redefined every moment by folks like those at Vudoo.
I like events where you use what you can reasonably carry every day, all day. Even that definition sort of bleeds over into the hired gunman, but, in my opinion, if he isn't prepared for a night in the open (or the weight equivalent), then it isn't anything more than target shooting and walking or even driving to the next target is just sort of bullshit. The competitors could simply jog in place and hug each other to get their heart rates up, then go lay down beside each other to make the magic happen.
I was once active with some handgun events. These went from guys gathering to shoot what they had and used to guys buying or building what became known as race guns. It was sort of amazing to see what some of those guys could/can do (Miculek, others) but, in my opinion, and apparently others, this sort of ruined the events. I'm not trying to take away from what those amazing marksmen/athletes can do.
So they made new events and leagues.
Some events or levels, there are zero limits. Others, there are many limits. Some are intended to replicate what "Joe the Plumber" might be carrying in his butt crack...and those are the type I gravitate to (not to imply I like Joe's butt crack). What is capable with what is available "off the shelf". Of course, "off the shelf" is being redefined every moment by folks like those at Vudoo.
I like events where you use what you can reasonably carry every day, all day. Even that definition sort of bleeds over into the hired gunman, but, in my opinion, if he isn't prepared for a night in the open (or the weight equivalent), then it isn't anything more than target shooting and walking or even driving to the next target is just sort of bullshit. The competitors could simply jog in place and hug each other to get their heart rates up, then go lay down beside each other to make the magic happen.
People used carts back in the 90's when I shot service rifle. People are using them now at USPSA pistol matches, and PRS matches.
Honestly, I don't care, in my mind it's more trouble than it's worth if the terrain is rough.
As far as realistic? Realistic went out the door a long time ago when they started introducing stupid props that no one would ever shoot off of in real life, other than the stupid circus game called PRS.
As far as ATVs/UTVs, either give everyone a ride, or have everyone walk. The only exceptions should be if you're disabled.
Honestly, I don't care, in my mind it's more trouble than it's worth if the terrain is rough.
As far as realistic? Realistic went out the door a long time ago when they started introducing stupid props that no one would ever shoot off of in real life, other than the stupid circus game called PRS.
As far as ATVs/UTVs, either give everyone a ride, or have everyone walk. The only exceptions should be if you're disabled.
You care about what other people do a bit more than you probably should.
in sporting clays and cowbow action and buffalo/shiloh shoots this is how we all carry our guns .. surprised not my relevant in PRS. Not cool looking enough?
Very common in 3-Gun competition. Almost everyone uses a cart or modified baby stroller. These factory made gun strollers are often seen.
Do what you like is what I say. If a cart works, run it.
Part of it is the ranges and ethos. The PRS matches I have attended at Smith Ranch in NM isn't a square range, its half mountain. A stroller would not be worth the hassle in field type ranges.
Another part is that having a bunch of bags isn't all that helpful. I have found that one bag really can do it all, after hunting and shooting in the back country.
As much as it is a game, and there are gamers, skill is more important and one bag focuses practice and skill.
Part of it is the ranges and ethos. The PRS matches I have attended at Smith Ranch in NM isn't a square range, its half mountain. A stroller would not be worth the hassle in field type ranges.
Another part is that having a bunch of bags isn't all that helpful. I have found that one bag really can do it all, after hunting and shooting in the back country.
As much as it is a game, and there are gamers, skill is more important and one bag focuses practice and skill.
except instead of a golf bag its a rifle in a holder with extra ammo and cleaning kit .trying to get it to mount with the 4 wheel drive gas powered lazy boy recliner . 
sort of like this just not as slow nor a couch
sort of like this just not as slow nor a couch
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I got one of those when they went on super sale. Love it.Very common in 3-Gun competition. Almost everyone uses a cart or modified baby stroller. These factory made gun strollers are often seen.
When I do shoot those matches. I take my son. He's a damn fine sherpa. LOL. Takes video for self improvement, and cheers the squad on. He's pretty good at shagging brass as well.
This year he expressed interest in shooting a few matches. I'd consider a fishing cart or wagon to pull our gear. What I wouldn't mind is a light weight patio/beach umbrella. I shot a match two years ago, it was 98F with 80%Rh. Shooting and spotting in the sun was tiring.
This year he expressed interest in shooting a few matches. I'd consider a fishing cart or wagon to pull our gear. What I wouldn't mind is a light weight patio/beach umbrella. I shot a match two years ago, it was 98F with 80%Rh. Shooting and spotting in the sun was tiring.
The place I shoot my monthly matches have enough terrain to make a stroller not worth the hassle for one person. However, that same place also holds "Precision Rifle Putt Putt" (low stress precision rifle shooting without timers) and I have considered getting a cart when I take my kids so I can haul 2 rifles instead of sharing one.
I have one of these when we shoot shooting sporting clays. $20/cart rental means this sucker pays for itself fast.Very common in 3-Gun competition. Almost everyone uses a cart or modified baby stroller. These factory made gun strollers are often seen.
if you wanna look like a fag.....get yourself a stroller.
if you want to keep your dignity in tact....carry your guns like a man.
ive shot all my 3 gun matches carrying everything in a 2 gun backpack....and i do it in full kit with armor....
honestly its easy when you only carry what you need.
if you want to keep your dignity in tact....carry your guns like a man.
ive shot all my 3 gun matches carrying everything in a 2 gun backpack....and i do it in full kit with armor....
honestly its easy when you only carry what you need.
Almost all the reasons my match shooting days are over. So dumb.
When I shoot PRS, I carry my shit. Eberlestock, rifle, bipod, ammo, spotting scope and tripod (maybe), rangefinder, bag, water, light food, IFAK, a half-roll of TP, notebook, map, compass, and rain gear if appropriate. For me, shooting a match is training. In the matches where I shoot, I'm not going to win - there are several young men who are 30 to 40 years younger, more fit, better gear, and better shooters. I stopped worrying about winning and I focus on training. I pick my load and I carry it.
Me and 2 buddy's, some times 3, shoot a couple local matches for fun every year. We have a "wagon" i guess you would call it that we all share turns pulling. Hold each of our back packs and what ever shooting bags each of us bring.
Get to the stage and everyone pulls out their back pack and the shooting bags are in the bottom. Works well for a squad of pizza loving 30+ year olds.
Get to the stage and everyone pulls out their back pack and the shooting bags are in the bottom. Works well for a squad of pizza loving 30+ year olds.
Here the problems I see, or have seen.
A couple years ago I was involved with a big two day match with over 100-shooters. The match director allowed competitor to use ATVs and UTVs. I objected intialy based on my perception of human nature to drive/park those things as close to the stages as possible, crowding the limited space we had for rifle staging, shooters, RO's, support staff, etc. I wasn't wrong in my prediction, but here's what I also observed.
The guys pulling carts or wagons generally moved from one stage to another much slower, compared to just walking with gear in hand. The distance between stages was generally no more than 150-feet. This either caused the squad to be waiting for that individual at the next stage, or forcing that person leaving the squad early if they were one of the first shooters to ensure they didn't hold up the squad.
What I also observed with both the Cart/Wagon and ATV/UTV users was they took extra time to pack, load, unpack, unload their equipment and rifles etc. compared to those who just grabbed their gear and walked to the next stage.
Here's where the rub came into play. Because the time it took to load/unload, the guys, especially the groups in UTVs riding together as a mini-squad, would pack up and depart while the remainder of the squad was still shooting. This caused some animosity between those who walked with their gear in hand, and those riding or pulling their equipment. They (the people who walked with gear in hand) were bitter that not only did they have to help out even more with brass collecting, backup spotter, etc., but also didn't have the time afforded them at the next stage to find targets, load magazines, write dope cards etc., In addition to being less rested than those who arrived ahead of them.
I guess because of all those reasons I'm opposed to ATVs and UTVs in precision rifle matches, and also a firm believer that squads need to move from stage to stage as a squad.
A couple years ago I was involved with a big two day match with over 100-shooters. The match director allowed competitor to use ATVs and UTVs. I objected intialy based on my perception of human nature to drive/park those things as close to the stages as possible, crowding the limited space we had for rifle staging, shooters, RO's, support staff, etc. I wasn't wrong in my prediction, but here's what I also observed.
The guys pulling carts or wagons generally moved from one stage to another much slower, compared to just walking with gear in hand. The distance between stages was generally no more than 150-feet. This either caused the squad to be waiting for that individual at the next stage, or forcing that person leaving the squad early if they were one of the first shooters to ensure they didn't hold up the squad.
What I also observed with both the Cart/Wagon and ATV/UTV users was they took extra time to pack, load, unpack, unload their equipment and rifles etc. compared to those who just grabbed their gear and walked to the next stage.
Here's where the rub came into play. Because the time it took to load/unload, the guys, especially the groups in UTVs riding together as a mini-squad, would pack up and depart while the remainder of the squad was still shooting. This caused some animosity between those who walked with their gear in hand, and those riding or pulling their equipment. They (the people who walked with gear in hand) were bitter that not only did they have to help out even more with brass collecting, backup spotter, etc., but also didn't have the time afforded them at the next stage to find targets, load magazines, write dope cards etc., In addition to being less rested than those who arrived ahead of them.
I guess because of all those reasons I'm opposed to ATVs and UTVs in precision rifle matches, and also a firm believer that squads need to move from stage to stage as a squad.
I don't think UTV/ATVs should be allowed. Part of the sport is walking the course, kind of like golf. The game is already one big gear race and having a motorized Sherpa is just another $10K+ piece of gear to get you ahead. If you're handicapped, that is another story, I could see it used then.
pull/push Carts ruin the idea of the game for me. It does not mimic hunting or military use and that is where the game started. Yes its a game now but we need to keep some kind of roots. If you want an advantage; ruck more often at home and be ready to walk and carry, or ditch half that shit your don't need.
Match directors just need to make stages 1/4 mile apart and you'll see the Carts go away.
pull/push Carts ruin the idea of the game for me. It does not mimic hunting or military use and that is where the game started. Yes its a game now but we need to keep some kind of roots. If you want an advantage; ruck more often at home and be ready to walk and carry, or ditch half that shit your don't need.
Match directors just need to make stages 1/4 mile apart and you'll see the Carts go away.
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Shooting off 7 bags looking like the michelen man doesn't resemble hunting or the military either. either does using a tripod t stabilze a shot where you can't use a tripod. Goes against the spirit of shooting unsupported off a baracade. But you still do it.
Want to make it realistic like the military:
Everyone has to wear shitty issue clothing and boots.
You have to use the shitty issue ruck with 80lbs+ of gear it in.
You have to ruck 5 miles, drop pack and shoot course of fire while dog tired.
You have to eat nothing but MRE's and Rip its for a week.
Make everyone shoot the same gun with the same ammo and optics.
You can game this shit all day
So stop pretending PRS/NRL or any of this other shit is what it is, a shooting game. If the method of tranportation and egress is not defined, then people will do what they do.
Want to make it realistic like the military:
Everyone has to wear shitty issue clothing and boots.
You have to use the shitty issue ruck with 80lbs+ of gear it in.
You have to ruck 5 miles, drop pack and shoot course of fire while dog tired.
You have to eat nothing but MRE's and Rip its for a week.
Make everyone shoot the same gun with the same ammo and optics.
You can game this shit all day
So stop pretending PRS/NRL or any of this other shit is what it is, a shooting game. If the method of tranportation and egress is not defined, then people will do what they do.
I can just see the next controversy at a PRS match... So and So used their wagon as shooting bench, and there was nothing in the rules saying you couldn't.
Maybe we can put a limit on it, like caliber and velocity...
Only one wheel allowed per shooter, and no sharing wheels.
Maybe we can put a limit on it, like caliber and velocity...
Only one wheel allowed per shooter, and no sharing wheels.
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someone should tell that to the people that run PRS
they define themselves as a "practical" shooting sport with underlying themes from Mil/LEO/Hunting.
personally, if you want to shoot with 12 pillows, a tripod, a spotting scope, 2 backup guns, a 30lb rifle.....thats fine......but you have to carry it yourself.....
after a match or two of shooters lugging their shit around, youll see them revert to more realistic gear and ditch all the gamer shit.
also, get rid of the fucking prize tables.....we are grown ass men....we dont need "prizes". If you want to have a prize table, make it for junior shooters only.
Tell me what the military , law enforcement and hunting have in common? Other than guns. Its a cliche and means nothing.
They can say whatever they want. Every shooting sport in the world was born out of hunting or the military. Doesn't mean that have anything practically in common with them.
"The practical application of........." So lets get practical then.
They can say whatever they want. Every shooting sport in the world was born out of hunting or the military. Doesn't mean that have anything practically in common with them.
"The practical application of........." So lets get practical then.
I just want to know when we got to use a fucking pillow tripod 3 bags and a side fluffer in the military? If you wanna play the game, play the fucking game and be practical. If you're handicapped sure drag your shit, if you're just fucking lazy go do BR...
EDIT: If the idea is to be tactical it needs to be made as such, PRS isn't tactical it's just problem solving under time. IE: how can I fluff this pillow against my tripod best to not miss that 600yd fox steel....
EDIT: If the idea is to be tactical it needs to be made as such, PRS isn't tactical it's just problem solving under time. IE: how can I fluff this pillow against my tripod best to not miss that 600yd fox steel....
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1) no one in the MIL/LEO/hunting circles is carrying their guns in a fucking baby carriage for one.
2) no one in the MIL/LEO/hunting circles is carrying several "tactical pillows".
3) no one in the MIL/LEO/hunting circles is shooting intentionally overweighed rifles...because of point 1.
I remember when Creedmoor shooters were made fun of. Then it was Dasher shooters. Then 6GT. Maybe if everyone just worries about themselves, there'd be a lot less stress/complaining from folks. The buggies are a great piece of gear especially for those that have injuries/disabilities.
Slap me on the ass and call me Timmy........
Cause I use a foldable wagon. I still carry my rifle. But my bags, tripod, binos, lrf, ammo, etc etc is in the cart. Somewhat in my defense, I’m always trying/testing new gear or bring stuff for people to borrow. If the match required it, I’d carry.
But I walk around all day with a pack/ruck at work. So, if I gotta be gay to use a wagon......line the boys up. I’m coming in hot.
Cause I use a foldable wagon. I still carry my rifle. But my bags, tripod, binos, lrf, ammo, etc etc is in the cart. Somewhat in my defense, I’m always trying/testing new gear or bring stuff for people to borrow. If the match required it, I’d carry.
But I walk around all day with a pack/ruck at work. So, if I gotta be gay to use a wagon......line the boys up. I’m coming in hot.
It was 1985 or so, I was in the gym doing curls with 45lb dumbbells in each hand. There was a grey-haired guy next to me doing curls with 5-pound dumbbells. I remember thinking, I hope I never let myself get to be that weak.
Now I am that grey-haired guy, nearing age 70. I can't do pushups anymore at all and doing a curl with 10lb weights at anything but a perfect wrist "angle" elicits a feeling something like a red-hot ice pick going through the elbow due to wear-related osteoarthritis and chronically torn tendons and ligaments. The big chunk of my right leg missing because a careless hunter put a round through it didn't matter much when I was in my 20s and 30s but it matters some now.
But I am still out there shooting matches. Occasionally, slowly, and usually at the 30th-50th percentile level, but I am out there doing it. And unashamedly with a cart made from a jogging stroller.
Being as old as I am, and having survived what the docs said should have been a fatal gunshot wound and equally near-lethal complications and recovering to do pretty much everything they said I'd never do again, I really don't give a damn about the opinions of shallow manly men who think those of us who use carts are pussies. If I've shot with any of them, at least they had the decency to keep their opinions to themselves.
Now I am that grey-haired guy, nearing age 70. I can't do pushups anymore at all and doing a curl with 10lb weights at anything but a perfect wrist "angle" elicits a feeling something like a red-hot ice pick going through the elbow due to wear-related osteoarthritis and chronically torn tendons and ligaments. The big chunk of my right leg missing because a careless hunter put a round through it didn't matter much when I was in my 20s and 30s but it matters some now.
But I am still out there shooting matches. Occasionally, slowly, and usually at the 30th-50th percentile level, but I am out there doing it. And unashamedly with a cart made from a jogging stroller.
Being as old as I am, and having survived what the docs said should have been a fatal gunshot wound and equally near-lethal complications and recovering to do pretty much everything they said I'd never do again, I really don't give a damn about the opinions of shallow manly men who think those of us who use carts are pussies. If I've shot with any of them, at least they had the decency to keep their opinions to themselves.
there is a big difference between a 70 yr old with gun shot wounds using a cart because he needs to.....and a fit 20-something using a cart because hes fucking lazy.
Its not even problem solving under time, You get to watch the course of fire, watch other people shoot it,ect.
Maybe if it was shot blind there would be some validity. By the time you shoot its a KD range with a time limit and its all about the wind calls.
No one needs to defend using a cart or wagon or whatever. Everyone does what works for them and if some guy wants to spout off how badass he is for hauling all his shit, despite the rules not requiring it, then bless their heart. If people wanted to compete at rucking, they can join the army.
Its a game, with a defined course of fire, that you can observe before you shoot, share info/ect.
Want to make it interesting. Don't allow observation before you shoot and make sharing any information a match DQ. Squads cant share dope or wind calls. Have to shoot it blind. At least that would require some practical skills. One of about 2 dozen changes I would make to make this more realistic.
Its a game, with a defined course of fire, that you can observe before you shoot, share info/ect.
Want to make it interesting. Don't allow observation before you shoot and make sharing any information a match DQ. Squads cant share dope or wind calls. Have to shoot it blind. At least that would require some practical skills. One of about 2 dozen changes I would make to make this more realistic.
i fucking agree....walk throughs also need to end.....there is nothing more douchy that watching the gamers dance through the stage for 20 minutes shooting finger guns at the targets.....
shoot the fucking stages blind.....you miss a target, oh well.....
shoot the fucking stages blind.....you miss a target, oh well.....
FYI, we are teaching Mil/LE how to use tripods as rear support. It’s actually a *huge* deal. Also how to use their jacket as packs to fill space like a pump pillow.
And I’m being 1000% serious.
Granted you’re never gonna carry around a 30lb sand bag, but a mini fortune cookie, a pack, and a tripod will do most everything we do in matches.
I think you could argue that PRS and competitive shooting is the cutting edge of practical application of the long rifle. It really is the proving grounds for lots of new concepts.
hence its not rooted in the military, the military is rooted in it.
hence its not rooted in the military, the military is rooted in it.
My rifle now is about 14 pounds and I usually just have one small Rifles Only bag, and after having seen some of the obstacles in PRS events, because I am disabled (after 2 strokes, multiple TIA's, a pinched nerve in my left hip, surgery to remove my entire colon, and developing cataracts), I wouldn't be able to do some of them, but I 've always worked off of the "if I can't carry it with me, I'm not bringing it."
I didn't even come close to making the right point, which is that injuries or mobility-limiting conditions may not be apparent. Because of what I went through after I got hurt, I often don't react well to assumptions.
When I was in my early 30s and able to bench half again my body weight, I still wouldn't have been able to carry my (17-pound) rifle, ammo, a GameChanger, and the other common odds & ends for any distance, even though it appeared I walked normally.
If range owners want to make $$$$ easy, they could run geezer matches during the week where we retirees can shoot steel placed in square-range COF from positions we don't have to have young bodies to get into and the revenue-generating weekend activities aren't impacted.
Hi,
I just so happen to know of a shooting competition that will not only cater to anyone with gungho mindset, it will more than likely break your living spirit.
Next available registration is for April 2022 and IF you start training 10 days a week right now you still will not be ready for it.
Need 8 members for your Team.
Sincerely,
Theis
I just so happen to know of a shooting competition that will not only cater to anyone with gungho mindset, it will more than likely break your living spirit.
Next available registration is for April 2022 and IF you start training 10 days a week right now you still will not be ready for it.
Need 8 members for your Team.
Sincerely,
Theis
So......carts are frowned upon there?
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