Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

[Supersubes]

I was testing loads today for a 6.5X47 Lapua. I just received some Wolf small rifle magnum primers and a new lot of Re15. I have never used wolf primers which seem to be highly regarded here. I figured i would test them out at the same time I tested the new Re15.

Every few rounds I would have a pretty nasty hangfire(click...boom). Oddly the velocities were correct and the spreads were good.

I built the loads from new/unfired Lapua brass. I didn't debur the flash holes but inspected each one to check for burs. I have heard of this before but never experienced it.

I took the bolt apart (Surgeon)to see what the pin and spring looked like, all seems normal. There were no obstructions in the firing pin hole, and i have never blown a primer with this action and trigger (about 2800 rounds now). Below I have pasted the shot strings.

Edited: I loaded some of the same primers into my .223 loads which I shot today. Other than the load being slightly faster, accuracy and spreads were fine, no hangfires.



String 1 37gr
1) 2879.0 12.8
2) 2860.0 -6.2
3) 2870.0 3.8
4) 2857.0 -9.2
5) 2865.0 -1.2

High: 2879.0
Low: 2857.0
E.S.: 22.0
Ave.: 2866.2
S.D.: 8.7
95%: ±12.1

String 2 37.3 gr
1) 2913.0 7.8
2) 2898.0 -7.2
3) 2906.0 0.8
4) 2898.0 -7.2
5) 2911.0 5.8

High: 2913.0
Low: 2898.0
E.S.: 15.0
Ave.: 2905.2
S.D.: 7.0
95%: ±9.7

String 3 37.6gr
1) 2922.0 0.0
2) 2915.0 -7.0
3) 2922.0 0.0
4) 2922.0 0.0
5) 2929.0 7.0

High: 2929.0
Low: 2915.0
E.S.: 14.0
Ave.: 2922.0
S.D.: 4.9
95%: ±6.8

String 4 37.9gr
1) 2958.0 4.2
2) 2946.0 -7.8
3) 2956.0 2.2
4) 2963.0 9.2
5) 2946.0 -7.8

High: 2963.0
Low: 2946.0
E.S.: 17.0
Ave.: 2953.8
S.D.: 7.6
95%: ±10.5

String 5 38.2gr
1) 2982.0 0.4
2) 2980.0 -1.6
3) 2968.0 -13.6
4) 2991.0 9.4
5) 2987.0 5.4

High: 2991.0
Low: 2968.0
E.S.: 23.0
Ave.: 2981.6
S.D.: 8.7
95%: ±12.1

 

[steve123]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

That's odd?

Try again now that you have taken your bolt apart and see if it happens again.

Steve

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I took the bolt apart at the range and then fired more of the same loads and the hangfire was still present. I'm going back this friday with two other types of primers which worked two weeks ago.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I have experienced the same thing out of my 7WSM using Wolfs. Switched over to CCI LRM and it has stopped. It's really odd when you can hear the firing pin strike and about a tenth of a second or so goes by then boom.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have experienced the same thing out of my 7WSM using Wolfs. Switched over to CCI LRM and it has stopped. It's really odd when you can hear the firing pin strike and about a tenth of a second or so goes by then boom. </div></div>

This is exactly what it was like. Sucks that my velocities and spreads were so good with them.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

Did you seat the primmer against the bottom of the primmer pocket, or to a certain measurement?

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I have always seated by feel. To the bottom of the pocket and then a little extra.

 

[GOING FOR 2000]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

The primers themselves could be the problem.

I use reloader 15 with CCI-200 in my .308 and have never had a problem.

Try the following:

Debur the flash holes.
Clean the pockets completely, no residue.
Take a small pointed scribe and clean around the bottom corner of the pocket. Residue will accumulate and can provide a cushion where the anvil feet rest.
Make sure the primer is seated all the way so the anvil feet are solidly on the bottom of the pocket.

Hope this will help you if the problem persists change primers.

 

[280man]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

It might be your priming tool. Which one are you using?

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I had been using S&B and 205m's without issue. I was shooting virgin brass as well. I make it a point not to cut the pockets generally. This brass though has the most perfect pockets i have ever dealt with. My sinclair tool just kisses the bottom, nice and flat, with virtually no material removed.

The priming tool is an RCBS, don't know the model, but fairly new. I reload .223 through .338 LM without issues using it.

I bought 5k worth of these primers and on this very day i used them in my .223 loads with no issues.

I will be out friday testing with 205m's, which is what I was using before the wolf's. Those performed fine although the velocity spreads were slightly worse.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I'm going to give the trigger a close look tomorrow. Maybe my overtravel has gone out of adjustment and there is a bind.

 

[GOING FOR 2000]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I re-read your post and am convinced the primers are the problem, it presents itself as that some of the primers in the lot you are using are defective. I would send of take them back to place of purchase and ask for a refund or replacement with another brand. You have had hang fires but a dud is worse.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Supersubes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always seated by feel. To the bottom of the pocket and then a little extra. </div></div>

As do I, so I would suspect the primers as the weak link.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

That is what cured mine. I switched from Wolf to CCIs and it went away... Problem is that I have about 10k of the Wolfs!

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

What do you primer strikes look like got some pics? Now what size firing pin do you have?

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I believe Supersubes is using a Surgeon action and mine is on a Stiller (PT&G bolt?)

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I'll get some pics for you guys later, but I can tell you they do not look light.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I would suspect that there may be an incompatibility between the "flame front" of that particular primer, and the coating on the powder. The flame front is the combination of the duration of the flame and the penetration of the flame into the case/powder. The NRA magazine printed a set of pictures of the flame of several makes of primers and there can be quite a difference. Due to the heavy coating on the WW powders, for instance, the WW primers have a longer and more penetrating flame...they used to, and I don't know now...have some particulate magnesium or aluminum in the primer to enhance the flame penetration. The penetrance of the Wolf may be less, even though they are very consistant. I don't know what the coating on the RL15 is tailored for. In my rifles, the Wolf LR with Varget, RL22 and 4895 is extremely reliable and accurate. JMHO

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

Goto cci 450's then. I bet money on it your problem will go away. If you still have problems then its time to get your firing pin hole bushed and replaced with a .069 pin. I run them in my 6x47 and have shoot 400 rounds through it without a problem. If your pin is striking the primers good in the first place.

 

[MLC]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

One thing to consider is that the Wolf magnum primers have a thicker cup.
Perhaps if you install a stronger firing pin spring you will have more consistent ignition.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing to consider is that the Wolf magnum primers have a thicker cup.
Perhaps if you install a stronger firing pin spring you will have more consistent ignition. </div></div>

I dont think its any thicker then the cci's?

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I shot the rifle again today with 205M's. Not a single issue. Checked the trigger last night to see if their was a bind and couldn't find anything. I sprayed it with lighter fluid while I was there. I have used Sellier & Bellot primers with this combo too with no problems. They have a sold brass cup as well.

Here is a pic of todays brass and two seperate loads from the day I had the hang fires.
L to R: Fed 205 37.3gr RE15, wolf magnums 37gr RE 15, wolf magnum with 38.8gr RE15

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

Better pics
wolf magnums and the hottest load fired that day 38.8gr RE15

Fed 205M, 37.3 gr RE15, fired today

These are some of the 223 loads fired the same day I was having trouble with the 6.5. Same wolf primers out of the same 100pcs tray. I had no issues with these. Remington action, Lapua brass, 77smk, 24 gr Varget, 2800fps

 

[Criver600]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I had some misfires with the Wolf Small Rifle Primer. If they did not fire they were dead. I even de-primed a couple and smacked them with a hammer....... nothing. I use a Sinclair priming tool and and found the Wolf SR's are sensitive to seating pressure. Now I just seat to bottom of the primer pocket and have had 100% reliability. I have never had a hang/misfire with the Large Rifle. Good Luck and Good Shooting

 

[Downzero]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

My friend and I have loaded over 6,000 Wolf primers without any issues.

 

[Firefour]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

Went to the range a couple of days ago with my 6.5x47 using
wolf small rifle magnum primers. That's all I could buy at the time.
Had a couple of hangfires and my group at 200yds went from 3/4"
to 3" using wolf and RL15.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

The RL-15 needs to have the small rifle magnum primers in the 6.5 and the 6x47. Thats why i only use the 450 cci's.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

Went back to the range today and tried some more of the wolf primers.

I made two batches, primers seated to the bottom of the pocket, and primers seated as deep as my tool would allow.

Made no difference, still had the hang fire issue. The same primers also worked in the .223 today.


It has got to be the primers combined with RE15.

Next test will be the wolf primers with Varget.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

What's the firing pin protrusion in your 6.5's bolt?
It looks from the above pics that the Wolf's fired in the 223 have a bit deeper/wider depression.

I know most will say to switch primers, but the Wolf primers are good stuff usually.
Have you tried them in any other rifle? If they work fine in other guns but not the 6.5 that tends to lead me to believe there's something amiss in the 6.5.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The RL-15 needs to have the small rifle magnum primers in the 6.5 and the 6x47. Thats why i only use the 450 cci's. </div></div>

Woops, I missed that post.

 

[pinzmann]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

I had purchased a brick of Wolf LR primers. Gave a pack to a buddy of mine. Later he let me know that he had problems with hang fires in a bolt gun. I never had any issues with them other than they weren't as accurate as my Fed 210M's.

 

[GOING FOR 2000]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

Why don,t you just chuck the wolf primers, or use them in your .223 only. Get some CCI or federal?

It seem that at this point you are waisting powder and bullets.

I traded a brick of CCI-250's and Rem 9 1/2's after two hangs and 1 dud in my .338LM and .408CT Fed 215's only now. Not worth the time to even fool with it, I want to shoot not worry about ignition problems.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Hangfire problems- RE15 and wolf primers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1000 YDS. IS FUN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don,t you just chuck the wolf primers, or use them in your .223 only. Get some CCI or federal?

It seem that at this point you are waisting powder and bullets.

I traded a brick of CCI-250's and Rem 9 1/2's after two hangs and 1 dud in my .338LM and .408CT Fed 215's only now. Not worth the time to even fool with it, I want to shoot not worry about ignition problems. </div></div>

I haven't burned many rounds testing this out. I do want an answer though and at this point I think it is a chemical thing between the R15 and the primers. No big deal, I'll use them in the .223 and stick to the Federal and S&B primers for the 6.5.

Thanks again everybody for the input.