Harrel Powder Throwers
- Thread starter Tobyboy22
- Start date
It will depend on your rifle, cartridge, load, powder. Most of the time it drops within .2-.3 gr with varget. Sometimes it will drop within .1 gr for several throws. There are lots of variables including the type of powder and how full yoir container is. If your load has a wide enough load and is tolerant within .3 gr the Harrells is awesome. Ball powders are simply easy with the Harrels, I don’t even weigh the charges. I just throw them and I know they’re spot on.
Every time I hear someone say how much a Prometheus is, I still get a bit of sticker shock.
It’s the speed and accuracy of the autotrickler V3 now I’d much rather have that now.
There are some guys in BR who think that volume is a more accurate way to measure some powders than weight. I can’t say that I know enough of the science behind it to make an argument one way or the other.
I do know that my Harrels works great for almost all my reloading. I am surprised that more people aren’t running them.
I do know that my Harrels works great for almost all my reloading. I am surprised that more people aren’t running them.
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I’ve talked to a few short range BR guys who said the same.
Be interesting what the 1000 yard BR guys say.
Watched the videos a while back and found the info pretty interesting. In the second video when they list the 6x47 data, if you look at just powder weight and velocity they don't always correlate.
For instance
Slowest was 37.56 Gr 2922 FPS
Fastest was 37.60 Gr 2965 FPS
33 FPS ES with a .04 GR weight difference
Heaviest charge 37.94 GR at 2929 FPS
Lightest charge 37.40 GR at 2929 FPS
0.54 GR weight difference and 0 FPS ES
Many things effect velocity. Barrel fouling and temp, neck tension, and capacity differences between different pieces of brass are just a few of the things that could effect velocity. There are several variables that effect neck tension alone. Another variable is the primer. Hard to account for or track a lot of those variables. Charge weight is easy to control with today's equipment. The discussion becomes about the level of accuracy we need before we are within the noise. That depends a lot on component consistency and loading techniques.
In reality the numbers look screwy but it’s what I would expect with my Harrell. I get the same deviations they show. I think they had an SD (powder thrown) of around 11 with the Harrell and approx 3-4 with the Prometheus and A&D. All of those are pretty good.
I’ve seen velocity differences in just how hard I hold the rifle in my shoulder pocket....there are too many variables: shooter influences, individual case capacity differences, neck tension, seating depth variation, primer variances, temperature influences on burn rate, etc.
Controlling the weight is easier than controlling volume for consistency since I can’t control the case capacity unless I sort them all by water case capacity before hand. I don’t have the interest to do that. I might if I were only shooting 20 select cases and not 2-400.
The v3 has pretty much taken over my stick powder issues. I still use the harrels for ball powder or throwing stick powder charges for fire forming.
Controlling the weight is easier than controlling volume for consistency since I can’t control the case capacity unless I sort them all by water case capacity before hand. I don’t have the interest to do that. I might if I were only shooting 20 select cases and not 2-400.
The v3 has pretty much taken over my stick powder issues. I still use the harrels for ball powder or throwing stick powder charges for fire forming.
I use 8208XBR for .223.
I load on a Dillon S1050.
The Dillon drop is notorious for having variance with stick powder.
but 8208XBR is the mini stick that drops like a ball.
I get consistent enough drops with 8208XBR that I just run the progressive pulling the handle steady.
With I4064, I 4895 and the like I have to pull the case after the powder drop, weigh it, and trickle to desired weight.
If you can find a good node with 8208XBR the powder equipment may be irrelevant.
I load on a Dillon S1050.
The Dillon drop is notorious for having variance with stick powder.
but 8208XBR is the mini stick that drops like a ball.
I get consistent enough drops with 8208XBR that I just run the progressive pulling the handle steady.
With I4064, I 4895 and the like I have to pull the case after the powder drop, weigh it, and trickle to desired weight.
If you can find a good node with 8208XBR the powder equipment may be irrelevant.
ive tested just throwing powder out of a lee PPM...id throw,weigh that charge,write the weight down and dump the powder...out to 300ish yards it dont matter much up to about a .5g difference...past .5g started to make small differences at 300yds and past 300yds the differences slowly started to increase...honestly i think the position of the barrel when the bullet exits plays a bigger part than velocity spreads.
Honestly, I don't really see spending that kind of money on either one. Maybe the autotrickler. But even then I'm more convinced that my own deficiencies as a shooter are the reason my groups are not consistently .5 moa. I would rather spend the money on consumables, than a $1k+ setup to throw powder.
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Yes and no. The variance I was talking about was the accuracy of powder thrown. But as Spak mentioned there are a lot of other variables.
What I was trying to get at is the tightest tolerance available in powder thrown doesn’t relate to smaller ES. I bought a used 6.5x47 and weighed all the powder on the A&D to exactly .02 +or- 0 ( varget at 36.6 ) and had an ES of 42FPS and that was the previous owners pet load. After 20 shots I wasn’t impressed and switched to h4350 and everything else staying the same the ES was 9FPS. Maybe a different lot of powder and the velocity wasn’t what it needed to be? I don’t know! But I feel if you can find a good node that allows a 0.6gr. margin of error a Harrell will work just fine. I would say the guys in the YouTube video found it and that’s why the Harrell had a sd of 11.
I either own or have owned several different powder measures over the years. C-H, Dillon, Lyman, Herters, RCBS, Hornady and Harrells. Maybe another one or two. After using them enough to develop a feel and rhythm I have found them to be about even as far as accuracy is concerned. But where the Harrells excels is in its adjustment system. It's much more repeatable than any of the others that I have used. X number of clicks is the same next week as they are today. Not so much with the others. Its also much smoother which makes it easier to work.
The only one that had any issues was the Herters. The casting was pretty rough and made it hard to operate smoothly. I worked on the inside of it with a brake cylinder hone, or maybe it was a small engine cylinder hone (?) and a drill and smoothed it up some.
All of these measures worked well with ball and flake powders. I didn't feel like any of them worked well with extruded powder.
The only one that had any issues was the Herters. The casting was pretty rough and made it hard to operate smoothly. I worked on the inside of it with a brake cylinder hone, or maybe it was a small engine cylinder hone (?) and a drill and smoothed it up some.
All of these measures worked well with ball and flake powders. I didn't feel like any of them worked well with extruded powder.
I can’t disagree with your decision, I’m still running my Hornandy electronic powder measure I got for less than $200.
I’m not having any Problems loading ammunition that does pretty good past a mile.
I’d get the V3 more because it’s faster than because it’s more accurate but I have no plans of getting one anytime soon.
for all my 223 loads I’m just throwing them with a Hornandy or RCBS powder measure with 8208 or w748.
