Any experience with these to sight in or shoot ladders?
What is the most accurate way to use Thea types of rests? Do you strap the gun down?
What is the most accurate way to use Thea types of rests? Do you strap the gun down?
- Thread starter ghostwriter247
- Start date
A buddy of mine shoots a 338 off of a bench. He said he bought a lead sled and loved it. I was going to buy one, but got to thinking, of something else. I had some heavy nylon webbing and made a type of belt with a buckle on it. I screwed a 2X4 in front of where my front sand bag goes. I run this strap around the back of my stock butt and around that 2X4. It absorbs about all the recoil. I was shooting my 300 win. mag. with it last weekend. He doesn't have any more recoil than a 22.
The last time I shot my 270 with it, I shot a 1/4 inch, four shot group, at 100 yards with it. It greatly helps my ability not to flinch.....
I'd post a picture of this set up, except I'm just about computer illiterate....
The last time I shot my 270 with it, I shot a 1/4 inch, four shot group, at 100 yards with it. It greatly helps my ability not to flinch.....
I'd post a picture of this set up, except I'm just about computer illiterate....
Someone bought me the pro lead sled for xmas and I used it to sight in a rifle for deer season, I only used one 25lb weight and it worked fine the only thing I don't like is they should have added a strap to the barrel rest, could be easily made I guess.
Besides that, seemed to work fine...I am used to just shooting off of bags though or bi-pod.
Besides that, seemed to work fine...I am used to just shooting off of bags though or bi-pod.
Yea I usually shoot off bipod I was just going to use it for load development and sighting in.
I think they are fairly cheap, and I had a 25lb weight from my dad's old weight set lying around...I mean it really did help zero in, but until I read the box I didn't realize it was a recoil management system I thought it was for zeroing. I just wouldn't waste too much money on like the fancy DFT (I think that is the name).
Don't waste the ammo.
I've got one (it was a gift), it comes in handy time to time....like for load development with guns that don't have (and won't have) bipods. I toss scuba weights in the tray. Mine did come with a velcro strap for the barrel rest.
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Has anyone used a lead sled two or lead sled?
I've seen one (It was at the range during hunting season). It comes in the trunk of a car....and is used by people who don't know how to shoot a rifle. It's a metal contraption that comes with screws and pins and straps and things. You can strap the gun down and throw bags of shot at it until the rifle almost disappears.?
I've seen one (It was at the range during hunting season). It comes in the trunk of a car....and is used by people who don't know how to shoot a rifle. It's a metal contraption that comes with screws and pins and straps and things. You can strap the gun down and throw bags of shot at it until the rifle almost disappears.?
I have one but don't like it. I feel that it completely removes me from the shooting equation. Whats next a remote control trigger too? I want to practice a little more realistic personally.
Graham, tell it to me straight. Do you like lead sleds or not?
Graham and MMa Junkie,
I agree. i think some do use it as a means of geting around poor form, i wish there was one i could borrow because i wouldnt use it but maybe once per rifle. You will shoot how you practice, and hence other than sighting in and load development i wouldn't use it.
Graham, why is it a waste of ammo? will it skew the ladder test or ocw tests? i would think taking the shooter out of the equation would yield a more reliable result for load development?
I dont particularly want to spend 200 on a paper weight if it wont do what i want it to.
If you intend to always shoot the rifle while it is mounted in a contraption, then there's no reason not to do your load development with the rifle mounted in that contraption.
oh c'mon now. Folks have been using rests of various types for years to remove the shooter variable when developing a load or dialing in a newly mounted scope, myself included. Once I have the best load, the bench-rest/lead sled/whatever is out of the equation.
yeah for load development / ladder tests / etc. they are great. takes out the human element to see what the mechanical side of the equipment can do.
for everything else no so much, other than showing how many errors one makes when comparing to a sledded platform. no use in using the "crutch" when you are trying to walk when you know you have two good legs. after the initial knowing of what the equipment can do, it's in the shooters hands to well, actually shoot. the sled takes out most of the fundamentals and honing of skills, muscle memory, grip, etc. and besides, when was the last time a sled was used on your last hunt, match, etc?
sort of like keeping training wheels on the bike, the kid never really learns to ride a bike.
for everything else no so much, other than showing how many errors one makes when comparing to a sledded platform. no use in using the "crutch" when you are trying to walk when you know you have two good legs. after the initial knowing of what the equipment can do, it's in the shooters hands to well, actually shoot. the sled takes out most of the fundamentals and honing of skills, muscle memory, grip, etc. and besides, when was the last time a sled was used on your last hunt, match, etc?
sort of like keeping training wheels on the bike, the kid never really learns to ride a bike.
I bought and used the Lead Sled Solo a few years back when I first started shooting more rifle........ probably for the same reasons you are asking about. I did use it to sight in my scopes and for some load development. Do they work, sure especially if you have a rifle with more recoil than you enjoy soaking up over many rounds of development, etc.I've since installed a muzzle brake and seldom use the lead sled at all anymore myself. I keep it around only because it's paid for and sometimes I run into someone who doesn't want to pound the hell out their shoulder. Everyone has a different tolerance level, so if you think you may benefit, by all means give one a try. It's a tool like anything else, and if it helps you get sighted in or a load tweaked to your liking, who cares what someone else thinks really? No offense meant to anyone who has posted above. As you have read, some like and use them, others have little use for them....... different strokes for different folks.Would I buy one again? I don't know. If you have a rifle that isn't threaded and you don't want to run a brake and you want to eliminate the flinching that one can get from knowing that pulling the trigger again is gonna add to the funny shades of bruising your shoulder is turning, it certainly is worth trying and finding out if it's the right path for you.If you lived closer, I'd let you borrow mine to decide for yourself. Ask around at your local range. Someone surely has one that they'd probably bring out to try.
I take your point about it removing the human element. With a 35lb heavy Benchrest rifle that's probably an ideal way to develop a load. But do you want to remove the shooter from your rifle and replace it with a mechanical device that affects the recoil and harmonics differently?
Some times I wonder if you just post to pad your post count. Thats the biggest load of shit I've read in a long time. The barrel never knows its in a sled vs a bipod or whatever else. They work just fine, I've got one as well but I never use it. It worked fine when I did though I just prefer a bipod or front bag with a quality rear bag now.
Has anyone used a lead sled two or lead sled?
Second, I never claimed that the barrel knows anything at all.
Third, have a look at a previous thread about led sleds and watch the effect that you claim doesn't exist.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...recoil-affect-accuracy-lead-sled-vs-bags.html
First, it's not a real post count. That number is just there as a distraction for people who like to make criticisms based on other peoples' post counts. It's the Internet equivalent of a shiny object.
Second, I never claimed that the barrel knows anything at all.
Third, have a look at a previous thread about led sleds and watch the effect that you claim doesn't exist.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...recoil-affect-accuracy-lead-sled-vs-bags.html
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I think your post count might be getting close to that just from how many times you have told people that your post count isn't real lol
I like to use a front rest and a rear bag when developing loads or just plinking off the bench. Like to work on my form and "feel" whats going on.
Using a sled or whatever is like using a condom. Saw a guy years ago using a contraption with the rifle strapped into it and some sort of hydraulic/syringe trigger tripper.
He fired the rifle whilst standing 2 feet away. Priceless.
Using a sled or whatever is like using a condom. Saw a guy years ago using a contraption with the rifle strapped into it and some sort of hydraulic/syringe trigger tripper.
He fired the rifle whilst standing 2 feet away. Priceless.
Some good words posted, and some dogmatic stuff.
Again, I tend to use the sled on rifles that don't and won't have a bipod attached. I still cozy my shoulder up against the back of the stock rest....if that is significant enough of a difference from a prone/seated/off-hand shooting position to affect barrel harmonics and make me miss a trophy buck I haven't noticed.
I am careful with that front strap on the sled however...in fact I usually just leave it loose as I think cinching it down into direct contact with a barrel would be bad (maybe ok for an AR with a free-floated handguard). I don't feel the use of sled has biased any of my OCW load developments.
If my rifle has a bipod, then I use a rear bag or the monopod and "train the way I fight."
Again, I tend to use the sled on rifles that don't and won't have a bipod attached. I still cozy my shoulder up against the back of the stock rest....if that is significant enough of a difference from a prone/seated/off-hand shooting position to affect barrel harmonics and make me miss a trophy buck I haven't noticed.
I am careful with that front strap on the sled however...in fact I usually just leave it loose as I think cinching it down into direct contact with a barrel would be bad (maybe ok for an AR with a free-floated handguard). I don't feel the use of sled has biased any of my OCW load developments.
If my rifle has a bipod, then I use a rear bag or the monopod and "train the way I fight."
so do you use a sled when shooting in Haiti?
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I think it is useful.. I would have not bought one myself, but I am grateful I did receive it as a xmas present because I sight a lot of rifles in for friends, family, etc.. for every hunting season and I hate those handi rifles in 35 wheelen and 45-7. Obviously the best way to shoot is to mimic what you will be using it for in the field (hunting,shooting paper with $8000 rifle,etc..), but for a quick 2 shot scope setting it saves on time and then they can fine tune on it their own.
It's not really a bother for me because I can pull up to the 200 - 300 yard section at my range almost with my truck so it is just a small walk, but I agree it is kinda bulky to bring back and forth with you.
It's not really a bother for me because I can pull up to the 200 - 300 yard section at my range almost with my truck so it is just a small walk, but I agree it is kinda bulky to bring back and forth with you.
If ever in that shithole, I'll stay zipped.
Has anyone used a lead sled two or lead sled?
The distances are fairly short. Or so I'm told.
good muzzle discipline
My uncle uses led sleds on his big rifles when sighting them in. He has big primitive class weapons that weigh nothing. If you will be chasing that round all over looking for it to zero on those big kickers then it might just help. But when he hunts he doestnuse it of course.
And since hes usually inside 100 yards it doesn't matter.
Harmonics=Shitmonics on a HR handi rifle in 444MArlin at 60 yds.
FWIW, I saw where he was coming from as it took me 20 rounds to get it zeroed in and know where it would hit at 150&200 with confidence and I can usually doo all that in 7 rounds or so.
And since hes usually inside 100 yards it doesn't matter.
Harmonics=Shitmonics on a HR handi rifle in 444MArlin at 60 yds.
FWIW, I saw where he was coming from as it took me 20 rounds to get it zeroed in and know where it would hit at 150&200 with confidence and I can usually doo all that in 7 rounds or so.
Lead sleds serve a valuable purpose...once an otherwise anonymous internet genius advocates their use, it allows you to immediately and without equivocation discount anything that ever flows from their lazy uninformed fingers.
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I have and find it useful when doing slug testing in my 12 gauge, and for testing large caliber rifles...this tool eliminates my human input when testing. That being said I can shoot 50 plus rounds at a time with out getting "brain Rattle'' and then fine tune the zero from normal shooting positions. I guess that for load testing you could do the same in any caliber, I know first hand I can tighten groups with my 22lr, and 17hmr at 100-200 yards. Hope this helps
My Brother got one several years back when his sons were learning to shoot longer distances with their un-braked .300 WM hunting rifles. When they were flinching but would not admit it he would have them shoot the sled. They no longer need it, but it was a useful training tool.
damn slackers
Aw, 19S77, wish you hadn't gone and corrected your post. The irony was quite humorous...lazy fingers & typos you know.
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I do my load development prone, with a bipod and rear bag. I do it that way because most of the people I see shooting off the bench at the range doing "load development" or "sighting in their rifle" never seem to get off the bench. I don't want to get hooked on that bench shit, I hear it's more addictive than meth.
I've got one that I use to help my boys shoot the bigger rifles to further distance, so they can pay more attention to sight picture and trigger control and spend less energy wrestling with the rifle itself. Helps build their confidence a bit.
I've played with Lead Sleds and can say with fair certainty that you will never see the full accuracy potential of your rifle with anything with more recoil than a .308. The sled acts like a poorly fitting stock in that the rifle will recoil differently every shot. Take a look at benchrest shooters and notice their guns are not bolted or clamped down, but on rails or sliding on a smooth rest to allow a consistent recoil for every shot.
The only purpose I can see for a Lead Sled is if the shooter is disabled or otherwise cannot shoot normal caliber rifles. For the rest of the shooters out there, if you can't handle the recoil for long enough to sight in your rifle, you should probably shoot a smaller cartridge.
The only purpose I can see for a Lead Sled is if the shooter is disabled or otherwise cannot shoot normal caliber rifles. For the rest of the shooters out there, if you can't handle the recoil for long enough to sight in your rifle, you should probably shoot a smaller cartridge.
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I'm to lazy to put the link up but here goes. A few years ago Jacob Bynum did a video on heavy recoil and management. I believe he was shooting one of his Dad's elephant rifles. Prone or positional his form displayed the propper mitigation of recoil. With practice it can be duplicated.YMMV
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Have you actually used one or are you talking about a subject you jave no experience in once again?
Has anyone used a lead sled two or lead sled?
The value of marketing: Can we get people to buy a gizmo that is comprised partly of a front rest, before and until they figure out the need to get rid of the extra garbage so that they can use it as a front rest?!The Lead Sled FCX is a good one to have.
Eliminate your deficiencies when sighting the rifle in, then unscrew the rear section and use it as a sandbag of sorts in front.
I look at these things and ask where does the recoil go. I'm no engineer, but I would think your stock would take a beating from absorbing the recoil. Has anyone else thought this?
I've always thought you might split a wood stock with a high recoiling rifle wit one. Never seen it. But I've wondered the same thing
Has anyone used a lead sled two or lead sled?
Have a look at the slow motion videos of rifles hooked-up to these things. Pay attention to the barrel whip and rifle movement. Then tell me that anyone is achieving anything close to their claimed 'zero'.
Have a look at the slow motion videos of rifles hooked-up to these things. Pay attention to the barrel whip and rifle movement. Then tell me that anyone is achieving anything close to their claimed 'zero'.
The deer my uncle shoots with his told me that the zero was pretty close. He zeroed with one and the hunted without. Handi rifles in 45-70 and 500S&W seem to not care when your shooting at critters inside 200 yards. LOL Lots of people have killed deer without the surgical precision many here seem to loose sleep over. And have been doing it along time. I treat many rifles with the best dedication to all the forms of marksmanship but some I dont give two shits about, hell, they are 2-3 moa guns at best without a sled doing it all "right" what you gonna hurt?
I still think a lead sled is a good idea if you have a heavy recoiling rifle. I might add that I've never used a lead sled. I planned to buy one before I engineered a nylon strap that absorbs almost all the felt recoil. I have not seen a change in zero. I am also able to shoot my tightest groups ever, with this set up. I don't think the harmonics of anything is messed up...
Let's face it maybe bench shooting is addictive, but I don't know of any other way to develop a good load. If you are being slammed over and over by a 300 Winchester Magnum or other magnum, how in the world are you going to do that, without something to help with recoil. I'd like to see the guy who can take that, without flinching. This is way different than shooting a 243.
I don't want to magna-port my rifle. I already have a 26 inch barrel. I don't want to make it even longer, or to cut it shorter for this to fit on there. Every two inches you remove, does affect velocity. I also don't want to blow my hunting pardner's ears off when I shoot a magna-ported magnum, when hunting.
Recoil isn't a problem when I'm shooting just a few rounds each year at game.
Sure a guy needs to do some practicing from other shooting positions, but none of them are as accurate as shooting off a bench with sand bags.....When you are shooting five shot groups (when developing loads), you need to be steady, without flinching.....Otherwise your groups don't mean anything.....
Just my two cents worth.....
Let's face it maybe bench shooting is addictive, but I don't know of any other way to develop a good load. If you are being slammed over and over by a 300 Winchester Magnum or other magnum, how in the world are you going to do that, without something to help with recoil. I'd like to see the guy who can take that, without flinching. This is way different than shooting a 243.
I don't want to magna-port my rifle. I already have a 26 inch barrel. I don't want to make it even longer, or to cut it shorter for this to fit on there. Every two inches you remove, does affect velocity. I also don't want to blow my hunting pardner's ears off when I shoot a magna-ported magnum, when hunting.
Recoil isn't a problem when I'm shooting just a few rounds each year at game.
Sure a guy needs to do some practicing from other shooting positions, but none of them are as accurate as shooting off a bench with sand bags.....When you are shooting five shot groups (when developing loads), you need to be steady, without flinching.....Otherwise your groups don't mean anything.....
Just my two cents worth.....
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I had one of these. Used it when i was younger and dumber. Then i learned to get straight behind the rifle and load a bipod and let my body absorb the recoil instead of just my shoulder. The problem, i found with it is your not getting up on the rifle the same way. Figure the place where the butt stock is adds maybe 3/8-1/2" or better to your LOP. So then you really have to crane your neck to get your proper cheek weld. Can't say that I ever noticed a shift in zero, but it was probably there.
The one time i was grateful for having one of these was when having scope/mounting issues on an H&R 12 gauge. Putting a couple boxes through one of those isn't exactly fun and the lead sled does sop up some of the recoil.
The one time i was grateful for having one of these was when having scope/mounting issues on an H&R 12 gauge. Putting a couple boxes through one of those isn't exactly fun and the lead sled does sop up some of the recoil.
I was always under the impression that you zero a gun in the same manner in which you will be using it. I've never seen a lead sled at a match, nor in the woods while hunting. Basically, if you sight in your gun while standing on your head then you need to take that shot at the deer ( or match target) while standing on your head! otherwise your hit will be off. Just my "old school" way of looking at it. But, whatever works for you, go for it. that's why we call it a free country. Well,,,,,sort of,,,,,kinda,,,,,,maybe,,for a while anyway.
40 xs, in some sense a zero should be completed as you shoot. If it differs significantly from a bench rest you have learned something about your shooting. That being said you would definitely want to confirm zero with your normal style of shooting.
yep, was similarly thankful for that lead sled gift when developing a load for 458 Socom.
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