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Have we come full circle?

Maggot

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jul 27, 2007
    25,898
    29,184
    Virginia
    Long ago I felt that gay was flat out wrong, logically and biblically, and kind of detested gays (lesbians, etc.) Then encountering some who were good guys, I did my best, and mostly achieved, respect for the individual, apart from sexual orientation.

    Cant say I ever liked it, nor felt it was normal, but WTF, maybe God made the different, live and let live. It's America and all.

    Lately its gotten worse, with every kind of perversion, trying to legitimize exposing kids to trans sexual life in order to normalize it, and forcing me/us to say its normal. I've come full circle and take a stand drawing a line in the sand,

    NO! ITS NOT NORMAL AND I WILL NOT SAY IT IS.

    Males have penis's and females have vagina's. If you believe other than this youre confused and psycho emotionally, ill. Help is available but the first step is in admitting you have a problem. I dont hate or fear you, I want you to get well.

    ==================================

    I think we all need to take a hard line on this.
     
    Morning after regret is a bitch.

     
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    We are all born flawed and into sin. We have a choice, even if we are born with certain proclivities. We should never accept perverse over clean; wrong over right; evil over good. Also, all choices have consequences.
     
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    giphy.gif
     
    We are all born flawed and into sin We have a choice, even if we are born with certain proclivities. We should never accept perverse, over the clean; wrong over right; evil over good. Also, all choices have consequences.
    It seems those most ill are the most unable to reject them, much like a drug addict, and the least able to determine wise and unwise choices. Help is available.
     
    i am not religious, but believe religion is an evolutionary mechanism that is crucial to the survival of a species once the weak and defective specimens have the tools to kill the stronger and healthier ones.
     
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    i am not religious, but believe religion is an evolutionary mechanism that is crucial to the survival of a species once the weak and defective specimens have the tools to kill the stronger and healthier ones.
    I’m not religious either. Being a natural skeptic, I just can’t subscribe to any organized religion. That doesn’t stop me from raising my kids to be good Christians and taking them to church. In general, I just find them to be good people.

    We can all use a little more Jesus, whether we believe or not.
     
    Morning after regret is a bitch.

    Sounds like another merchandise opportunity for the HMFIC , "Snipershide Anal Lube" . That way we can stop the bleeding that goes on here...
     
    The older I get, the more I try to live by "All men are created equal". I still believe that fags are broken, but as long as they don't get in my face about it, meh, live & let live.

    Trannies are even more broken and turn my stomach. They seriously need to seek professional help.

    Pedos and groomers are broken beyond repair and should be publicly drawn and quartered, then burned at the stake.
     
    I’m not religious either. Being a natural skeptic, I just can’t subscribe to any organized religion. That doesn’t stop me from raising my kids to be good Christians and taking them to church. In general, I just find them to be good people.

    We can all use a little more Jesus, whether we believe or not.
    So your kids can grow up knowing you to be a hypocrite?
    I‘m not religious either and I’m certainly not saying you should be. But I am saying your kids deserve more honesty than “I don’t believe this stuff but you’re going to be a good Christian because good people”. Why can’t you just teach your kids how you decide what’s right and wrong and good or bad instead of pretending you want them to be “good Christians”. Which, by the way, according to the good Christians is a lot more deep and complicated than just following the “rules” or going through a set of rituals like arriving at a building every Sunday morning. Jesus Christ, the longer I think about it, the more irresponsible and particularly insulting to “religious” people this is.

    Are your kids getting the message that they have to have this philosophical framework to be good people that you yourself don’t have….and thus must not be a good person? Or worse yet that the only way to be “good” is by pretending to follow a dogma you don’t actually believe in. Or that “we go to church even though we don’t believe because the people are good and the potluck is cheaper than grocery shopping.”

    I don’t even know where to start with the ways this is offensive to both the religious and the non-religious alike.

    About the gays. Whatever. Live and let live.
    About the trannies. That’s mental illness.
    Regarding pedos. Fucking shoot them.
     
    Long ago I felt that gay was flat out wrong, logically and biblically, and kind of detested gays (lesbians, etc.) Then encountering some who were good guys, I did my best, and mostly achieved, respect for the individual, apart from sexual orientation.

    Cant say I ever liked it, nor felt it was normal, but WTF, maybe God made the different, live and let live. It's America and all.

    Lately its gotten worse, with every kind of perversion, trying to legitimize exposing kids to trans sexual life in order to normalize it, and forcing me/us to say its normal. I've come full circle and take a stand drawing a line in the sand,

    NO! ITS NOT NORMAL AND I WILL NOT SAY IT IS.

    Males have penis's and females have vagina's. If you believe other than this youre confused and psycho emotionally, ill. Help is available but the first step is in admitting you have a problem. I dont hate or fear you, I want you to get well.

    ==================================

    I think we all need to take a hard line on this.
    I know what you mean. I don't really care what you do as long as you don't try to force those ideas on me.
    I've gotten pretty deep into Craft Beer and the beer industry has more than their share of liberals. At most breweries you will see lots of pink/purple hair, piercings, tattoos, and gays. As long as they give me good service I'll tip them and be polite. A drinking buddy won't, and I don't buy that. I'm not tipping them for their life choices (even though I don't approve), I'm tipping for their service.

    The older I get, the more I try to live by "All men are created equal". I still believe that fags are broken, but as long as they don't get in my face about it, meh, live & let live.

    Trannies are even more broken and turn my stomach. They seriously need to seek professional help.

    Pedos and groomers are broken beyond repair and should be publicly drawn and quartered, then burned at the stake.
    I agree 100%. Especially about hurting kids.
     
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    I wish there were more gays and lesbians! We got too many damn people now!
    Perhaps it's nature's way of controlling population. I can dream can't I?


    Where I work, the percentage of LGTBQ folks is DRAMATICALLY out of whack to the rest of society / rest of the country. As a result I have known hundreds and hundreds or more over my 30 years here. Other than perhaps a handful of the annoying, overly flamboyant, drama queen attention whores, any of them I didn't like had nothing to do with their sexual preference. It had to do with not likely them as people... quite often due to the fact that 98.5% of them have been liberals.
     
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    We are all born in sin.
    Everyone develops proclivities, how they obtain those proclivities are results of environment and effect.
    "I was born this way." Absolutely true, and ultimately a lie. Its actually the same kind of lie as: "You shall not surely die, but when you eat it, your eyes will be opened!"
     
    Wait….so maggot transitioned and now eats cock? Where’s bigfatcock….
     
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    So your kids can grow up knowing you to be a hypocrite?
    I‘m not religious either and I’m certainly not saying you should be. But I am saying your kids deserve more honesty than “I don’t believe this stuff but you’re going to be a good Christian because good people”. Why can’t you just teach your kids how you decide what’s right and wrong and good or bad instead of pretending you want them to be “good Christians”. Which, by the way, according to the good Christians is a lot more deep and complicated than just following the “rules” or going through a set of rituals like arriving at a building every Sunday morning. Jesus Christ, the longer I think about it, the more irresponsible and particularly insulting to “religious” people this is.

    Are your kids getting the message that they have to have this philosophical framework to be good people that you yourself don’t have….and thus must not be a good person? Or worse yet that the only way to be “good” is by pretending to follow a dogma you don’t actually believe in. Or that “we go to church even though we don’t believe because the people are good and the potluck is cheaper than grocery shopping.”

    I don’t even know where to start with the ways this is offensive to both the religious and the non-religious alike.

    About the gays. Whatever. Live and let live.
    About the trannies. That’s mental illness.
    Regarding pedos. Fucking shoot them.
    I think you're reading into this too much.

    My wife is believer. I am not. I'm more than happy to tag along and support my wife in raising our kids as believers. I don't hide my beliefs/opinions from the kids or the pastor/congregants and they're far less critical than you seem to expect. If anyone has been offended by my presence, they haven't spoken up about it.

    I also serve as treasurer to a national 501(c)3 Christian based organization and donate a considerable amount of my time and money to other Christian organizations. Like I said... I see them as good people doing good things. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem this. If they do, they're welcome to bring up their issues and I'll be happy to talk it out.

    Nobody's faking anything. I've been welcomed with open arms, which (I believe) is the way it's supposed to be.
     
    "Look, mister, there's... two kinds of dumb, uh... guy that gets naked and runs out in the snow and barks at the moon, and, uh, guy who does the same thing in my living room. First one don't matter, the second one you're kinda forced to deal with."

    --Hoosiers
     
    I think you're reading into this too much.

    My wife is believer. I am not. I'm more than happy to tag along and support my wife in raising our kids as believers. I don't hide my beliefs/opinions from the kids or the pastor/congregants and they're far less critical than you seem to expect. If anyone has been offended by my presence, they haven't spoken up about it.

    I also serve as treasurer to a national 501(c)3 Christian based organization and donate a considerable amount of my time and money to other Christian organizations. Like I said... I see them as good people doing good things. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem this. If they do, they're welcome to bring up their issues and I'll be happy to talk it out.

    Nobody's faking anything. I've been welcomed with open arms, which (I believe) is the way it's supposed to be.
    This is a good post. I am a leader in my church and this is the exact way we treat everyone. Anyone can come into the church to listen and be with their family or even by themselves. As it should be. The only caveat is when someone decides to join - there is a covenenat with the rest of the congregation that needs to be committed to. If someone cannot do that, no problem, they just cant be a member and have voting rights, etc. because they are not in alignment with our values. That doesn't mean that we don't welcome, know, like and ultimately love them, but there are limits to their influence upon the church and its direction. In this day and age it is a safety protocol for the congregants, their children and the Gospel.

    It has to always be remembered that all people are fallen; there has to be mercy and grace. If that doesn't exist we are nothing more than a hateful clique that is worthless for the Kingdom and our community. I am fully in the camp that sees the churches as being increasingly needed for those that wake up, see the evils in the world and their lives and begin to look for answers that are never going to come from this world. I never want to be in a hard-hearted church again. It is truly against what Christ taught and is abusive to all involved.
     
    The only caveat is when someone decides to join - there is a covenenat with the rest of the congregation that needs to be committed to.

    That's an Interesting description.
    Just as a question, wouldn't it be better to describe it as, the Baptismal Covenant is between the person and Heavenly Father?
    Then go on to say that the Church can only accept as a member, those who have made that covenant and promise to abide by it?
     
    I had a few rules.

    Adult, willing, human. After that things change real damn quick.

    As to "gays", provided they stay right there I still have no issues. What has happened now is over that line. You are forcing that into my ears and I don't want it.

    Now you force it into non adult ears, and I as an adult have the responsibility to say NO.
     
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    How many people have you heard try to convince themselves that they're not religious, but spiritual? The funny thing about atheists is that we hold some of the same beliefs. When you die you believe that for you there will be nothing. That is absolutely correct. The difference is that I believe you will be terribly aware of the nothingness, and you think you won't. Essentially that's the only difference in our beliefs.
     
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    That's an Interesting description.
    Just as a question, wouldn't it be better to describe it as, the Baptismal Covenant is between the person and Heavenly Father?
    Then go on to say that the Church can only accept as a member, those who have made that covenant and promise to abide by it?
    That’s well said imo.
    I’m good with it being between God and myself. Between me and an organization or group of people? No.
    What do you do when one has a policy or practice that diverges from the other? I could see a covenant with a church or group forcing that. People, no matter how well intentioned, are flawed. God is not.
     
    There is two camps on this with just different bibles. One states Adam and Eve and the other states Adam and Steve.
     
    That's the funny thing about tolerance. It never ends. Once you tolerate one sin you're going to be asked to tolerate another, and another, and another, and with ever increasing magnitude till you are now required to endorse the first one you tolerated. When the whole gay thing went mainstream and appears all across the culture they immediately moved to validate mental illness as normal, and you are a total fucking idiot if you don't see them teeing up pedophilia the exact same way they have for transvestites. It's all part of our downward arc, and it is accelerating to warp speed. You can turn off the TV and ignore it till it comes for you, but it is coming for you sooner or later. It is getting increasingly difficult to protect your children from it, which is why our government works constantly to erode parental rights and say they own your children.

    We are soooo fucked.
     
    Gays are a bit like police, doctors or attorneys. 10% cause 99% of the problems.

    Today's Democrat leaders have given voice to the 10%. Why you ask. It's a distraction, let all watch this shit that don't matter so you don't see what we're doing over here.
     
    I don't care , call your self any dam thing you want to just don't think for a min your going to tell me I have to lie to make you feel better , fact is I don't care , have never cared , and never will care about what makes them happy . But treat you like a human being I also have no problems with gay , straight , or utterly confused . and do what you want with your own body m but keep tax dollars out of it .
     
    We are all born in sin.
    Everyone develops proclivities, how they obtain those proclivities are results of environment and effect.
    "I was born this way." Absolutely true, and ultimately a lie. Its actually the same kind of lie as: "You shall not surely die, but when you eat it, your eyes will be opened!"
     
    That's the funny thing about tolerance. It never ends. Once you tolerate one sin you're going to be asked to tolerate another, and another, and another, and with ever increasing magnitude till you are now required to endorse the first one you tolerated. When the whole gay thing went mainstream and appears all across the culture they immediately moved to validate mental illness as normal, and you are a total fucking idiot if you don't see them teeing up pedophilia the exact same way they have for transvestites. It's all part of our downward arc, and it is accelerating to warp speed. You can turn off the TV and ignore it till it comes for you, but it is coming for you sooner or later. It is getting increasingly difficult to protect your children from it, which is why our government works constantly to erode parental rights and say they own your children.

    We are soooo fucked.
    THats exactly what Im talking about, and taking a personal stand.
     
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    That's an Interesting description.
    Just as a question, wouldn't it be better to describe it as, the Baptismal Covenant is between the person and Heavenly Father?
    Then go on to say that the Church can only accept as a member, those who have made that covenant and promise to abide by it?
    Its a valid question. I'll try to be brief. We do this for a couple reasons:

    1. We don't use the Baptismal Covenant term because baptism for us as protestants is a public confession of faith and not effectual for salvation - that occurs at the point of accepting Christ as Savior and King. There are Catholics and others here who believe diffently and I am willing to respect their views onthis matter. However, not everyone who gets baptized are actually believers or completely believe in the Gospel in totality, or attempt to hold their personal standards to it. Baptism means different things to different people, and I blame this on several things not necessarily within the purview of this conversation. All that to say it is the difference in personal theological beliefs and not submitting to the totality of Scripture are the source of potential issues. We deliver the information and answer their questions before they make a decision and well before they sign the covenant. This is only fair to all involved, and greatly reduces future conflict within the Body.

    2. It is for legal and church discipline purposes. Within our constitution and by-laws we plainly state with Scriptural references what the standards are, which are only based in Scripture. This includes the LGBTQ issue. We worked quite a bit with Liberty Institute on this to ensure we are not sued for not stating this plainly and someone tries to come in an use the church for gay marriages, etc. This is also fair to those who want to join so that they are fully informed up front that we are following Scripture with respect to what it says regarding this issue (among others) and will not allow it within the body. It gives us the ability to administer church discipline should it come to that (Romans 16:17-18, James 5:19-20 , Matthew 18:15-20 , 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15, 2 Timothy 2:24-26, etc), and it has. Fortunately we have not had to do this lately as the congregation is on board with this.

    Essentially the reason we do this is to ensure everyone understands that we as a congregation are holding to the boundaries as outlined in Scripture. There are other churches that don't do this, and they are good churches. We, however, are trying to ensure that everything that is going on in the world against the believing Body isn't infiltrating and watering down the Gospel and thereby potentially shipwrecking the faith of others. We have seen how others have barnstormed a church to change them to a more woke agenda. I am rather convinced that what they want is the children of believers, the adults will die off soon enough.

    Joining the church is a completely voluntary act. If they chose to agree to lock arms with us great. If they chose not to, we understand and are not going to kick them out of services, Sunday school or anything else. They are fully welcomed to everything we do except be on committees or vote during business meetings. The reason for allowing them to remain is that we are all imperfect. In our church we have some really faithful and very wise leaders that were scoundrels in years' past. What would have happened if someone reject them instead of actually respecting them as they were and having a relationship with them? I cannot help but think that giving others the grace to be with us and be welcomed in is a huge factor in them beginning to understand the love of Christ. Obviously we don't do it perfectly, but giving them the info to make an informed decision, RESPECTING THEM and not rejecting them should they decide not to join is critical to how they view God, both now and in the future. That being said, this love and respect does not cross over into being a doormat to be used by others for their own worldly purposes.

    Hopefully I have answered your question.
     
    Its a valid question. I'll try to be brief. We do this for a couple reasons:

    1. We don't use the Baptismal Covenant term because baptism for us as protestants is a public confession of faith and not effectual for salvation - that occurs at the point of accepting Christ as Savior and King. There are Catholics and others here who believe diffently and I am willing to respect their views onthis matter. However, not everyone who gets baptized are actually believers or completely believe in the Gospel in totality, or attempt to hold their personal standards to it. Baptism means different things to different people, and I blame this on several things not necessarily within the purview of this conversation. All that to say it is the difference in personal theological beliefs and not submitting to the totality of Scripture are the source of potential issues. We deliver the information and answer their questions before they make a decision and well before they sign the covenant. This is only fair to all involved, and greatly reduces future conflict within the Body.

    2. It is for legal and church discipline purposes. Within our constitution and by-laws we plainly state with Scriptural references what the standards are, which are only based in Scripture. This includes the LGBTQ issue. We worked quite a bit with Liberty Institute on this to ensure we are not sued for not stating this plainly and someone tries to come in an use the church for gay marriages, etc. This is also fair to those who want to join so that they are fully informed up front that we are following Scripture with respect to what it says regarding this issue (among others) and will not allow it within the body. It gives us the ability to administer church discipline should it come to that (Romans 16:17-18, James 5:19-20 , Matthew 18:15-20 , 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15, 2 Timothy 2:24-26, etc), and it has. Fortunately we have not had to do this lately as the congregation is on board with this.

    Essentially the reason we do this is to ensure everyone understands that we as a congregation are holding to the boundaries as outlined in Scripture. There are other churches that don't do this, and they are good churches. We, however, are trying to ensure that everything that is going on in the world against the believing Body isn't infiltrating and watering down the Gospel and thereby potentially shipwrecking the faith of others. We have seen how others have barnstormed a church to change them to a more woke agenda. I am rather convinced that what they want is the children of believers, the adults will die off soon enough.

    Joining the church is a completely voluntary act. If they chose to agree to lock arms with us great. If they chose not to, we understand and are not going to kick them out of services, Sunday school or anything else. They are fully welcomed to everything we do except be on committees or vote during business meetings. The reason for allowing them to remain is that we are all imperfect. In our church we have some really faithful and very wise leaders that were scoundrels in years' past. What would have happened if someone reject them instead of actually respecting them as they were and having a relationship with them? I cannot help but think that giving others the grace to be with us and be welcomed in is a huge factor in them beginning to understand the love of Christ. Obviously we don't do it perfectly, but giving them the info to make an informed decision, RESPECTING THEM and not rejecting them should they decide not to join is critical to how they view God, both now and in the future. That being said, this love and respect does not cross over into being a doormat to be used by others for their own worldly purposes.

    Hopefully I have answered your question.
    Shorter answer.

    Its like the Hide. You dont have to come her but if you do Frank owns you.
     
    That's the funny thing about tolerance. It never ends. Once you tolerate one sin you're going to be asked to tolerate another, and another, and another, and with ever increasing magnitude till you are now required to endorse the first one you tolerated. When the whole gay thing went mainstream and appears all across the culture they immediately moved to validate mental illness as normal, and you are a total fucking idiot if you don't see them teeing up pedophilia the exact same way they have for transvestites. It's all part of our downward arc, and it is accelerating to warp speed. You can turn off the TV and ignore it till it comes for you, but it is coming for you sooner or later. It is getting increasingly difficult to protect your children from it, which is why our government works constantly to erode parental rights and say they own your children.

    We are soooo fucked.
    compare and contrast. "bad guy" Russia is fighting the spread of the faggot agenda in their own country. "good guy" America is forcing it on your kids at school and going to war in Ukraine to destroy the last barrier against immorality.

    Our government-mandated censorship does not even allow us to watch evidence against what they force us to believe.



    Screenshot (190) - Copy.png
     
    compare and contrast. "bad guy" Russia is fighting the spread of the faggot agenda in their own country. "good guy" America is forcing it on your kids at school and going to war in Ukraine to destroy the last barrier against immorality.

    Our government-mandated censorship does not even allow us to watch evidence against what they force us to believe.



    View attachment 8145111
    I cant help but sort of agree with you here. Fags existed back in the sodom times. So for all I know there were also cavemen fags. In any case all this is written about in the biblical stuff…whether you believe it or not.

    Then there are also parts of me that say its all BS and earth is just a galactic prison and this will all go “on and on and on” forever and it means nothing really!

    I hope that there is something though.
    Will God laugh and say fagism was a cruel joke (you passed)<or> will it be said that you failed and fruits are the bees knees??
     
    I cant help but sort of agree with you here. Fags existed back in the sodom times. So for all I know there were also cavemen fags. In any case all this is written about in the biblical stuff…whether you believe it or not.

    Then there are also parts of me that say its all BS and earth is just a galactic prison and this will all go “on and on and on” forever and it means nothing really!

    I hope that there is something though.
    Will God laugh and say fagism was a cruel joke (you passed)<or> will it be said that you failed and fruits are the bees knees??
    My take is that the Creator knows we're human and fallible, it made us. If it is, in fact as Christ said, Love ("God is Love" then with regognition and repentance, all will be forgiven. Regardless, its not my place to condemn, thats for the Almighty.

    )Since the fall, if you go with the Christian mythology, this is an exercise, or learning experience, for us to actually experience Good (life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness) as opposed to Evil (servitude/slavery). As Paul, Saul of tarsus suggests, upon leaving this earth we will pass into the realm of the incorruptible. From what I've determined, another learning experience...but that to is above my pay grade at this point.
     
    My take is that the Creator knows we're human and fallible, it made us. If it is, in fact as Christ said, Love ("God is Love" then with regognition and repentance, all will be forgiven. Regardless, its not my place to condemn, thats for the Almighty.

    )Since the fall, if you go with the Christian mythology, this is an exercise, or learning experience, for us to actually experience Good (life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness) as opposed to Evil (servitude/slavery). As Paul, Saul of tarsus suggests, upon leaving this earth we will pass into the realm of the incorruptible. From what I've determined, another learning experience...but that to is above my pay grade at this point.
    Or can we say, "Let's do evil so that good will come from it"? Some slander us and claim that this is what we say. They are condemned, and that's what they deserve. Romans 3:8

    To what conclusion, then, shall we come? Are we to persist in sinning in order that the grace extended to us may be the greater? Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Romans 6: 1&2

    Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and pursued homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire. Jude 1:7
     
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    This is not about being a Baptist, a Catholic or any other organized religion. This is about the teaching s of Christ. Not more.

    " Jesus did speak explicitly about sexual immorality in general and the nature of marriage. He denounced the former (e.g., Matt. 5:28; 15:19) and defined the latter according to Genesis 2:24: “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh” (Matt. 19:5 AT; par. Mark 10:7–8).

    Jesus affirmed the covenanted union of one man and one woman as the only normative expression of human sexuality. It is incredible to suggest that these words from Jesus have no bearing on the question of homosexuality. " https://www.crossway.org/articles/what-does-jesus-think-about-homosexuality/

    However Jesus does say to take up his teachings and sin no more. So, there is still hope for those in that lifestyle.
     
    union of one man and one woman

    And why do you think there is a huge push now to redefine what the meaning of "man" and "woman" is?
    If people start having women with penises and men with wombs well then that kind of makes a whole new mess.
    You don't have to change the rules, when you can just change the entire language to reverse the rules...
     
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    My wife is believer. I am not. I'm more than happy to tag along and support my wife in raising our kids as believers
    Good on you for raising your kids in the church even though you say your not a believer.

    You keep going with them to church it’s very likely when you least expect it god gets ahold of you then the next thing happening is your family is watching you get baptized. Prayers for you that will happen.
     
    And why do you think there is a huge push now to redefine what the meaning of "man" and "woman" is?
    If people start having women with penises and men with wombs well then that kind of makes a whole new mess.
    You don't have to change the rules, when you can just change the entire language to reverse the rules...
    Its ALIENS!!! Its the only thing that makes sense. Think about it!! Aliens dont have genders! They travel through parallel universes. Their goal is domination. They are controlling the weather too!! Hahaha
     
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    Or can we say, "Let's do evil so that good will come from it"? Some slander us and claim that this is what we say. They are condemned, and that's what they deserve. Romans 3:8

    To what conclusion, then, shall we come? Are we to persist in sinning in order that the grace extended to us may be the greater? Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Romans 6: 1&2

    Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and pursued homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire. Jude 1:7
    Thats your take. I could give lots of quotes, but then it just becomes a worthless quote slinging. dick measuring, fubar. We were never told not to use reason, just that reason and the flesh without the spirit are a recipe for disaster.