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Haven't seen this, that I recall...

Neil Allen

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 4, 2011
128
0
66
Gillette, Wyoming
I was ROing at the Light Rifle event for the NHSRA, National High School Rodeo Assn, at our local range in Gillette on Tuesday. We were more than half way through 85 kids when this happened.
One of the kids on my end of the line had a very loud report from a shot. He had ejected the case before I got to him. I checked his rifle, dropped the bolt, checked the bore, chamber found nothing out of the ordinary.
It was hot here yesterday, mid 90's partly cloudy. So I had him put his remaining rounds under his mat, thinking that maybe it was an over pressure caused by heat.
He finished his prone relay without any more problems.

During his kneeling he had it happen again! Twice! Right at the end of the relay.
I got to him on both of those times and recovered the casings, checked the chamber and bore on both again, looked around on the ground and found the first one, three total.
After the third time, I had him change to issue ammo for the last relay . He had supplied his own, Remington target, ours was Rem bulk. After changing ammo he had no more issue's. Ours had been in the shade the whole day also.

I suggested that he have the rifle, CZ, not sure the model, checked by a gunsmith upon his return home and to not shoot the remaining rounds.

Anybody else hear of or experience this with Rem target?

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Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

I've never heard of or seen anything like that before! Even in 110+F heat in the open sun i've not encountered that. Talk about odd... Hopefully someone more experienced than myself will chime in, i'm at a loss for words.
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

The problem is it is Remington ammo. Not the gun. Remington rf ammo is the worst ammo to buy. Their target ammo is about the same as everyone elses bulk ammo.
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

I had that happen in my 10/22 with PMC Zapper back in the 90's.
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

I agree with tomme boy...usually they don't go off....
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

It almost looks like the primer wasn't evenly distributed around the rim and it split where it was heavily built-up.
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

Yes Ive seen that quite a few times especially with remington bulk ammo. It has a tendency to happen with 22 conversion kits in AR's where the bolt isnt completely locked but closed enough to fire. I actually talked with Spikes about this at SHOT shot and they confirmed that it is a known issue with conversion kits.
Probably a combination of the Rem bulk ammo and potentially an issue with the shooters rifle. What was he shooting it through? , an semi auto?
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem is it is Remington ammo. Not the gun. Remington rf ammo is the worst ammo to buy. Their target ammo is about the same as everyone elses bulk ammo. </div></div>

Thing is though we had been using bulk Remington day of comp and practice the previous day. 85 shooters X 41 shots per is like 3500, x 2. And this kid has three ruptures out ammo he supplied, Rem Target. Shoulda got the batch #...
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">never seen that. i know that heat does change the pressures and poi http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2458698#Post2458698, (wish i chronied it).

but never seen the primer rim rupture like that.

where abouts did the firing pin strike the rim in relation to the rupture? </div></div>

It was smokin hot on Monday, 96-97, we had rounds divied up into baggies sittin on a table in the sun, not 1 problem Monday, or Tuesday with our ammo.

Sorry, fuzzy eyes, fuzzy pics.... :)

Pin strike @ 3 o'clock, yes, it does appear that the rupture is consistent in relation to the pin strike.

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Top view

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Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

Hello guys.

This is my first post and I actually have something to contribute to this post.

That happened to me, using Remington ammo, back in the early 1980's at the Keystone State Games in State College, PA.

We were shooting standard pistol. I was using a (French) Unique (can't remember model number) .22 pistol. During timed fire, I had a "detonation" that resulted in the case head splitting just like the ones shown above. I also had a bleeding thumb on the right side next to the thumbnail.

I put a bandaid on this and continued shooting.

That injury never seemed to want to heal right and it always itched. About a year later, still not healed right, I started picking at it. It felt as if something was inside my thumb. I ended up squeezing it like a zit, and low and behold, out pops a calcified piece of brass from the case head that blew.

After cleaning the wound, it then healed within a week.

This was the only time that I have experienced a case head failure like that. What I noticed was that the case head was not fully supported all around. I wonder if that were the case with this particular rifle the kid was using. The target ammo may have used thinner brass to obtain positive ignition, or the case head was oversized.

When I saw your picture above, I immediately remembered that happening to me.

Hope this bit of insight helps solve that problem.

Best regards,
Mark in AZ
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

Well, it sure sounds like this isn't very common, beings it happened to MarkinAZ back in the 80's, with the same brand, type of ammo, odd.
Now that Mark brought up the thickness of the brass, I wonder if I could compare weights of these to the ammo cases we supplied, just as an exercise in futility perhaps! LOL
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

For all of you bashing Remington ammo:
Well I don't like Remington ammo myself and think it is pretty bad but they do not have the patent on this kind of occurance.

Back in 2008 I was using Federal AutoMatch in my 14" Contender pistol getting ready for an IHMSA match. I lined up on the chicken swinger, pow, my spotter says center hit. I line up on the pig and pull the trigger, immediately my face feels funny and I think,"that sounded very wierd." My spotter unfazed says,"center". I lay there a minute and eject the cartridge and there is a perfect hole in the brass where the centerfire pin is located. In a contender that is the weak spot. The rim was nearly seperated but a Contender pistol is strong for a 22lr.
Fast forward about 6 weeks and I am at the range again. A couple of the Bullseye guys are playing a speed game with their 1911 conversions and invite me to play as well. I decline for lack of a pistol and of course they twisted my arm. So we are happily taking turns with 10 shots timed on 5 plates from 5 yds to 25yds. The timer beeps and I start, at my second double tap I hear something funny and my face is on fire again. This time teh brass left the gun and sliced me across my nose and I picked a couple tiny fragments out of my cheek over the next few weeks. The offending ammo was Dynapoint Winchesters. Winchester sent us a case of ammo all was well. I reckon they figured there was a lawsuit coming. I also reckon in this day and time they are lucky I was who I was. This kind of thing happens. It has not happened to me since. I have never heard of this happening with high end ammo, I will say that. The cheap stuff is fun to shoot but I suggest wearing safety glasses....just like you should with any firearm. "Its ONLY a 22!" is no excuse for not wearing safety gear.
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...The cheap stuff is fun to shoot but I suggest wearing safety glasses....just like you should with any firearm. "Its ONLY a 22!" is no excuse for not wearing safety gear. </div></div>

I couldn't agree more. Always wear safety glasses.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarkinAZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was the only time that I have experienced a case head failure like that. What I noticed was that the case head was not fully supported all around. I wonder if that were the case with this particular rifle the kid was using. The target ammo may have used thinner brass to obtain positive ignition, or the case head was oversized. </div></div>

Mark here has a great point. Looking at the second set of pictures that you posted, all of the rim blow-outs are in the 6:00 to 7:00 range; Consistant with a rim not being fully supported. I know that the kid shooting the rifle has taken it home, but I'd be curious to see if there was some sort of carbon build up either on the bolt face. Could also be build up on the barrel face, and if so then these rim failures would be taking place right over the feed ramp.
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

Armorpl8chikn, Safety is tantamount at this type of event. During the safety briefing they are all instructed that eyes and ears MUST be worn at ALL times. Of course, there were always some that had to take of the stupid looking safety glass's between relays. They were immediately reminded to put them back on even though no shooting was taking place.

SituationNormal, Yes, I will have closer look at the gun if I ever have this happen again. Could be that the chamber/breach/bolt face had some gunk build up on it and was not supporting the case head.
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

Higher chamber pressure and/or weaker case, in combination with an unsupported rim...not a good combination.
 
Re: Haven't seen this, that I recall...

Had it happen with CCI Blazer bulk pack ammo once in a 10/22.