How do you guys control weeds in your hayfield without the use of herbicides or are herbicides the only practical way?
- Thread starter AngryKoala
- Start date
Herbicides are only practical way. Hit them with Rezlin and Roundup in late winter/ early spring. For Bermuda haymeadows. Hit meadows w Urea an Potash in early spring too. Aint NO cheap way to raise good hay!!!
I use completely organic and herbal Grazon Next, followed by vegan 34-0-0
Really there is no way if you want modern quality hay fields
Really there is no way if you want modern quality hay fields
Really how this works is we stunt Rye, crabgrass, and signal grass. Then when Bermuda starts coming up, hit it with fertilize. It comes on hard while the other grasses are suppressed. Then through the Summer you can spray liquid Urea. But You can have a SHITLOAD of money in hay before you know it. Its the most expensve feed on my Farm. And take your wife to the hayfield, let me know how that works out!!! 
you can do it mostly but it takes time. First thing, send off a soil sample. Without that your driving in the dark. Then set your soil up for grass and not weeds. What I mean is get your ph right and feed the grass according to the soil sample. The first year you won’t see much improvement and you may need to spray depending on how bad the weeds are. Second year you’ll see improvement and the third year you should have the grass you want and hardly any weeds. If your soil wants to grow weeds you will continuously be spraying then they come back and then you will spray again, a bad cycle. If your soil wants to grow grass then the grass will handle the weeds for you.
What kind of hay?
And tell the hippies that want herbicide free hay that they could feed their horse yard clippings.
It is different for different areas with different soils and climates. That being said:
I cut a couple hundred acres' worth per year, Fortunately, we had a good first cutting and I was able to get over 430 bales on the first go around as this drought and heat are horrible right now. We've been doing this for generations, so maybe repetition has something to do with our success (not maybe, definitely).
I burn (SE Oklahoma) in the beginning of February. It sounds early to some, but I've got enough fescue and ryegrass coming up by the beginning of March after a burn in early Feb to put cattle on (supplemented by hay still). Beginning of April, I take the cows off. The burn does help keep some of my annoying weeds, like buttercups wayyyy down (about 90%), which helps the bahia that I usually harvest for hay. Although, I do have dalis, some crab, and a little fescue left when that first cutting goes.
The cattle grazing on the meadows also cuts down on the weeds early, as some of them aren't so bitter when they're just sprouting and will be grazed down. I'll do that in the late season too (grazing early) to keep my arch nemesis of sage grass down. Plus grazing cattle leave manure everywhere.
I don't use any herbicides in my meadows. I guess I'm just lucky. Every couple of years I may add some calcium, but thats about it. It has been years since we did lime.
However, I damn sure 2, 4-D my pastures. Either you spray those, or you brush hog...sometimes both. However, if I wait until the Texas Goatweed and Spiny Pigweed is just coming up to 2, 4-D, I can usually avoid having to do both. My cows won't touch either.
Pigweed in churned up dirt is guaranteed around here, so I do have to spot check a few acres every year regardless.
My battle with sage grass is really only controlled by cutting it for several years well before it blooms. Once it gets tough and blooms, cows won't graze it or eat it for hay. I did not get the results I wanted with lime, and that was after a soil sample was sent in to OSU too.
I cut thistles out with a post-hole digger.
I cut a couple hundred acres' worth per year, Fortunately, we had a good first cutting and I was able to get over 430 bales on the first go around as this drought and heat are horrible right now. We've been doing this for generations, so maybe repetition has something to do with our success (not maybe, definitely).
I burn (SE Oklahoma) in the beginning of February. It sounds early to some, but I've got enough fescue and ryegrass coming up by the beginning of March after a burn in early Feb to put cattle on (supplemented by hay still). Beginning of April, I take the cows off. The burn does help keep some of my annoying weeds, like buttercups wayyyy down (about 90%), which helps the bahia that I usually harvest for hay. Although, I do have dalis, some crab, and a little fescue left when that first cutting goes.
The cattle grazing on the meadows also cuts down on the weeds early, as some of them aren't so bitter when they're just sprouting and will be grazed down. I'll do that in the late season too (grazing early) to keep my arch nemesis of sage grass down. Plus grazing cattle leave manure everywhere.
I don't use any herbicides in my meadows. I guess I'm just lucky. Every couple of years I may add some calcium, but thats about it. It has been years since we did lime.
However, I damn sure 2, 4-D my pastures. Either you spray those, or you brush hog...sometimes both. However, if I wait until the Texas Goatweed and Spiny Pigweed is just coming up to 2, 4-D, I can usually avoid having to do both. My cows won't touch either.
Pigweed in churned up dirt is guaranteed around here, so I do have to spot check a few acres every year regardless.
My battle with sage grass is really only controlled by cutting it for several years well before it blooms. Once it gets tough and blooms, cows won't graze it or eat it for hay. I did not get the results I wanted with lime, and that was after a soil sample was sent in to OSU too.
I cut thistles out with a post-hole digger.
I'm new at this so names might be wrong. Clover, Timothy, alfalfa, fescue and rye. Mares tail weed aren't the problem, rag tail and thistle type weeds.
Thanks for the info guys, a lot to digest and research further. The hay field isn't massive (non industrial), only 50 acres.
I'm going to add some lime to see if that helps a little bit.
I'm going to add some lime to see if that helps a little bit.
Grazon P+D or Weedmaster, or a custom blend depending on target weeds, timing, weather, & neighboring crops etc. followed by fertilizer, After you take soil samples & get test results. Glyphos may kill some of your desirables.
Talk to your CO-OP manager for suggestions about local usage & weed resistance.
Or hook up on the shredder then spray, fertilize &
for rain
Talk to your CO-OP manager for suggestions about local usage & weed resistance.
Or hook up on the shredder then spray, fertilize &
for rainAnd double down on praying for rain. Fuck this drought.
Finished our second cut hoping it doesn't rain until after Wednesday. Got a little too ambitious on the cutting.
“I'm going to add some lime to see if that helps a little bit.“
Before you potentially waste your money on lime that you may or may not need, send in a soil sample and it will tell you everything you need to know. Spend $10 to potentially save you thousands
If you need lime don’t let anyone talk you into pelitized line, use ag lime.
Something to remember about lime, it works really slooooooow. Most people put lime out and in 6 months they say that was a waste of money and try something else then the lime starts working and they say see the second thing I did worked and not the lime.
Before you potentially waste your money on lime that you may or may not need, send in a soil sample and it will tell you everything you need to know. Spend $10 to potentially save you thousands
If you need lime don’t let anyone talk you into pelitized line, use ag lime.
Something to remember about lime, it works really slooooooow. Most people put lime out and in 6 months they say that was a waste of money and try something else then the lime starts working and they say see the second thing I did worked and not the lime.
I use Grazon mostly. However, about once every few years I will cut the final cutting a little early so there is some small amount of growth left to die in the winter. In the spring I wait until the winter weeds sprout and burn it. The VFD comes out and does it for a small donation. They are a bunch of pyros anyway so they jump at the opportunity. This serves the purpose of getting rid of the weeds and keeps the pasture clean. It also reduces the amount of Grazon I have to put on the ground. Tests of the first cut after this small burn show no impacts to the protein content, and I do it early enough that there isn't any real hay growth, just kills the weed seedlings and the seeds that are not buried. This is coastal.
But that soil sample is an absolutely necessary thing. You won't know if your crop can be successful unless you do this first. The other thing to remember is that hay production is also mining the soil's minerals and nutrients through the roots of your hay. The soil sample will tell you over time what you are pulling out (or is leaching) and at what rate.
But that soil sample is an absolutely necessary thing. You won't know if your crop can be successful unless you do this first. The other thing to remember is that hay production is also mining the soil's minerals and nutrients through the roots of your hay. The soil sample will tell you over time what you are pulling out (or is leaching) and at what rate.
Mainly by keeping it cut on schedule... Took 9 tons off my lower pasture 2 weeks ago. Perfect hay with almost nothing (weeds) in it.
Gave it to a local dairy farmer in exchange for 30 tons of liquid manure. Next year, he'll be haying two of my fields. He is hurting because of hay prices. Farm family dating back to 1830's here. Least I can do is give him hay that I'd just cut to mulch anyway. Great family... great local history. The 'grandfather' who died recently was one of the guys who taught me to hunt.
Next year, if we get three cuttings off two fields, (9 tons was from one field... one cutting) I'd expect to pull about 40 ton to give to the family.
I've never used any chemical on it. But have been finish mowing it for 20 years. Expect that without returning the mulch to the ground the yields/weeds will change after a couple of years. We'll see. I'll also be running a disk over it in the fall. Mainly to aerate.
Sirhr
Gave it to a local dairy farmer in exchange for 30 tons of liquid manure. Next year, he'll be haying two of my fields. He is hurting because of hay prices. Farm family dating back to 1830's here. Least I can do is give him hay that I'd just cut to mulch anyway. Great family... great local history. The 'grandfather' who died recently was one of the guys who taught me to hunt.
Next year, if we get three cuttings off two fields, (9 tons was from one field... one cutting) I'd expect to pull about 40 ton to give to the family.
I've never used any chemical on it. But have been finish mowing it for 20 years. Expect that without returning the mulch to the ground the yields/weeds will change after a couple of years. We'll see. I'll also be running a disk over it in the fall. Mainly to aerate.
Sirhr
I would stop in at your university research extension office and ask some questions. Get ready to do soil samples. And do them the right way.. Sit in on a cattlemen association meeting get a vibe. Stop by a USDA service center and ask some questions. I would join ACRES and read up on regenerative ag practice.
I would be as skeptical about taking advice on shooting from the extension office as I would ag advice in the shooting forum.
Just note how many people told you to start using herbicides before they knew where you were located, what kind of hay you were growing, what kind of weeds you have, whether you graze it, what animals, etc. Nothing. The brain washing of farmers by big ag chemical producers is on par with the brain washing of doctors and patients by big pharma.
I would be as skeptical about taking advice on shooting from the extension office as I would ag advice in the shooting forum.
Just note how many people told you to start using herbicides before they knew where you were located, what kind of hay you were growing, what kind of weeds you have, whether you graze it, what animals, etc. Nothing. The brain washing of farmers by big ag chemical producers is on par with the brain washing of doctors and patients by big pharma.
Yeah you are right. No real farmers shoot. They are too busy getting brainwashed
Farmers don't research other regions or grasses because that does nothing for our yield. Ask a hay question on a national forum get regional answers. You are needed in the "masks work" and "EV's are the future" threads where real knowledge is on display.
Well, I been Farming 30 years. I don’t know a single person who puts up ‘clean’ hay that does not use Herbicides. Thats -0- There’s a huge difference between nutricious hay and growed up grass. Soil samples are a great tool. But if your soil sample calls for say 4 ton Lime/acre, you are wasting money putting 3 tons/acre. We try to cut 2250lbs/acre dry matter hay per cutting. In S Ark Bermuda is king on hay. Ea cutting will suck 33-40lbs of Potash. Potash is crucial for Bermuda hay production. We put chicken litter at 3 ton/acre yearly, then use potash and urea accordingly. Hay is expensive!!!
Have to use pellitized, don't have the right spreader for the pulverized lime without the binder. I agree paying more for pelletized is dumb but we don't have the right spreader.
Our soil is slightly acidic, I was able to test that much myself. Had a pH of around 6.4. I still need to send in a sample. Actually, I need to send a few in as our fields differ. We have two good fields, one that has grass and a bunch of thistle weeds and one that needs replanted.
I was told 100lb of lime per acre, doesn't seem like enough but I could be wrong.
Definitely lacking in this area.
Glad to hear someone's doing it. I wasn't really open to the idea of not using chemicals until I looked at the structure of some of those herbicides. I'll probably still need to use them just to get to a baseline.
I'm hoping you're wrong but I'm not going to discount 30 years to my basically 0. I want to avoid herbicides if I can. The one field is probably going to need it no matter what.
Find a supplier of lime that will supply the spreader. There’s a couple around me, I mainly use Nutrien. The price is usually about the same because they all get it from the same supplier, at least around here anyway.
A hundred pounds isn’t enough to move the needle on ph. If your soil sample calls for lime they will recommend putting out an amount per acre usually 1,2 or 3 tons per acre. That recommendation is to make your soil optimum for whatever you are growing. Don’t waste your money trying to get the optimum ph just get in the range for your crop, you won’t be able to afford it. Put out a ton and next year sample again and see how much it moved and go from there.
A hundred pounds isn’t enough to move the needle on ph. If your soil sample calls for lime they will recommend putting out an amount per acre usually 1,2 or 3 tons per acre. That recommendation is to make your soil optimum for whatever you are growing. Don’t waste your money trying to get the optimum ph just get in the range for your crop, you won’t be able to afford it. Put out a ton and next year sample again and see how much it moved and go from there.
I’m not saying you will never spray but if you manage your soil spraying will be very minimal and localized to problem areas.
That’s no joke. Ranchers are selling breeding stock at the salebarn right now. No pasture, no hay this winter, no water that the hogs haven’t turned into a wallow. Even the deer and pigs are skinny. It’s pretty bad right now.
I didn't even know that was an option. I was getting close to buying the pelletized lime at TSC because it was close. I had a feeling 100lb per acre was too low.
Yup… I can give you a great answer for my 40 acres of pasture in mountain vt. I can’t tell worth a damn what is happening across town, 10 miles away.Yeah you are right. No real farmers shoot. They are too busy getting brainwashed
You are needed in the "masks work" and "EV's are the future" threads where real knowledge is on display.
So take with a grain of salt! We had a really wet summer here, too.
My advice applies to fields 500 yards from where I am typing. YMMV. Offer not valid on Guam. Must be over 18 to enter. Read small print.
The “don’t take haying advice from a shooting forum” is sage.
Cheers, Sirhr
This may or may not be true. The underlying fallacy of your statement is that if you make the soil what your particular crop likes all the weeds will go away. It isn’t true. Some weeds will cohabitate just fine and use up what you put out for your crops.
Hay is going for $7-$10 a bale (small 40lb bales) right now because so many people are having issues with hay. The weather guy got us good on one of our cuts.
Thats interesting, thanks. Ph means a lot in many areas.
I'm okay with certain weeds as long as they aren't too abundant but the thistle weeds, hemlock ect need to go. Cattle, goats and others don't seem to mind the mares tail.
Our soil is still wet here in the north. Have to turn quite a bit because the hay is still damp.
Aah, the fragrance of cowshit in the morning. Brings back such memories.
Ph first, if ph is off your plant won’t take up the nutrients (fertilizer) in the soil very well. You’ll be wasting fertilizer on the weeds because the ph is right for them to take up the nutrients. This is how you manage for grass and not weeds.
This is true. Now that your ph is correct your grass is thriving and the weeds are struggling you have them mostly whipped, it’s just a matter of time. Now the cohabitate weeds will need sprayed probably and since your grass is thriving it will choke out any new ones that try to come up. Weed management is the easiest part, undesirable grasses are harder. I am concentrating on ph because it’s the big gorilla in the room but there are other trace minerals that can come in to play.
20% chance tomorrow, watch it rain early and screw me good.
Scratch that, now it is 40%.....definitely screwed.
Is alphalpha the clover or is it mixed with annual clover or another perennial clover also? Timothy is an annual grass also isn't it? I am not used to seeing them mixed out here its usually aphalpha clover all alone. Or some one has a weed problem they are fighting. Thistle is an annual so spraying or manually removing plants before they go to seed is going to reduce your seed bank over time. If you are irrigating make sure you don't have more seeds coming in with the water. As mentioned above there are probably people in your area who have dealt with the same problem. What you are growing isn't going to be a lot like Bermuda grass. Whats your environment like? I.E inches of rain per year.
Soil test. Don't add expensive things blindly. You might ask some of your customers about their other sources of organic hay, and see if you can get some help from those growers.
Organic Herbicides
Many gardeners across the state of South Dakota desire to have weed-free gardens, yards and flowerbeds. Many homeowners do not want to use inorganic herbicides due to their potential health effects.
Never, EVER, curse the rain. No matter how hard it screws you when it’s wet. As soon as it drys up, you’ll be wishing for that monsoon…
It's all mixed, I'm not sure how my family decided on that mix initially. My guess is to have a well rounded nutrient base without being too nutrient dense. I'm not even sure they have the right ratio.Is alphalpha the clover or is it mixed with annual clover or another perennial clover also? Timothy is an annual grass also isn't it? I am not used to seeing them mixed out here its usually aphalpha clover all alone. Or some one has a weed problem they are fighting. Thistle is an annual so spraying or manually removing plants before they go to seed is going to reduce your seed bank over time. If you are irrigating make sure you don't have more seeds coming in with the water. As mentioned above there are probably people in your area who have dealt with the same problem. What you are growing isn't going to be a lot like Bermuda grass. Whats your environment like? I.E inches of rain per year.
Soil test. Don't add expensive things blindly. You might ask some of your customers about their other sources of organic hay, and see if you can get some help from those growers.
Organic Herbicides
Many gardeners across the state of South Dakota desire to have weed-free gardens, yards and flowerbeds. Many homeowners do not want to use inorganic herbicides due to their potential health effects.extension.sdstate.edu
The pH is a little low for the alfalfa which is why I was going to add the lime and hope it also helps with weed growth inhibition (weeds like a more acidic soil).
Between 30-40 inches of rain per year on average.
You absolutely need a soil sampling done first so you know what your soil needs and doesnt need
Go by your local coop and ask these questions. Contact your county agriculture agent, he will be your best asset on getting advice and he’s free. He will come out and visit your place and you can talk about all this while standing in the field. Immensely valuable especially for a newbee.
And that is before you start looking at the machines. The fucking bailer that always has issues, the tractors to cut, rake, and load the bails on the trailer, the truck to haul it to wherever. Then unload. This is not a one man job as well, or at least it is best if it is not.
I don't see how they can do it now with the fuel costs so high. So glad I don't anymore.
If there’s a few people that do hay in your area , it’s more likely cheaper to have it custom done. On the shares is even better
Hays a f ing joke. *0* money in it.
Hay brings the same price it did 10 years ago. While everything. Labor fuel equipment repairs twine etc has doubled or tripled.
I am sure part of it is regional. We are in a good range PH wise for it mostly and it is dry enough to cure alfalfa in the field. A lot of clean alfalfa hay gets shipped all over the country from here. Are you sure your annual grass were a target species and not a weed?
Which thistle you have? I would venture a guess most of your thistle species are going to like the same PH as alfalfa. Leaving a couple cuttings as mulch on the field might be good non-herbicide non-manuel labor solution. What is causing the disturbance that is helping the thistle get a foot hold? Drought, grazing practices, cutting practices, soil condition, fire, weather, water.
Can you get compost locally for cheap? Fish emulsion is a very good product to help the creatures in reconditioning your soil. Not hydrolysate.
