This question pertains mostly to shooting prone, but I'm curious about other positions too. I know our goal is to put the shoulder stock as close to the center of our body as possible and keep the head as straight as possible. However, some head movement is needed to look through the scope, even if its very minor. I noticed that I am most comfortable when I turned my head towards the cheek piece. It allows me to place more of the meaty part of my cheek on the cheek rest, providing a comfortable position for shooting long periods at a time. However, most pro shooters I see tilt their head instead of turning it. Is one better method better than the other?
- Thread starter ConTrarian
- Start date
Which is better depends on facial bone structure and the adjustability of your stock.
A wide face with a more angular cheek bone structure is going to need to turn in Vs. roll.
A wide face with a more angular cheek bone structure is going to need to turn in Vs. roll.
Um..........not necessarily
Humans can turn their head without moving any other part of their body. Is kinda how the neck works.
If I am 90° behind the rifle and i "turn" my head. I am no longer looking through the scope
. But hey, maybe that's just me?
100% agree on you other statement
If I am 90° behind the rifle and i "turn" my head. I am no longer looking through the scope
100% agree on you other statement
The only way that you can look through the scope without rotating or tilting your head is if the rifle is directly in front of your face. If the rifle is on your shoulder you cannot look through the scope unless you tilt or rotate the head. It doesn't matter if the rifle's axial centerline is perpendicular to your shoulders or not.
How people don't understand this obvious anatomical fact is beyond me.
If you have it in your shoulder se previous "Turn = unsupported / bladed / angled."
You can look at Frank Galli, Modern day sniper and Scott Satterlee who I happened to find a good example explaining first.
I’m w @308pirate , unless you are walleyed as a fish, some small degree of turn and/or tilt is required as the bore line will never be perfectly under your on eye otherwise since the butt is offset from your head no matter how close in you put the stock.
In shotguns it’s very typical to turn your nose/head in toward the stock just a bit which rotates the on eye to that side some without having to roll over. But those guns are shot off hand and mounted across the body to some extent so not quite the same.
To facilitate this, many shotgun stocks have an adjustable comb that can move laterally as well as up and down. The lateral part seems less common in rifles but the KMW Loggerhead from Terry Cross offeres that functionality and I have one on a Rem 700 .308. And some stocks and chassis do offer laterally adjustable combs now.
I only mention shotguns as clay target shooters have been nuts about gun fit forever and it seems like a lot of these considerations have become widely applied to rifles more recently.
I shoot a J Allen chassis which goes up and down on the comb but no lateral. I find that in prone or bench, if I have my bipod high enough and keep the butt as close into my centerline as reasonable, that a little head turn/roll is still required but just a little. Not the way cocked head you see used as an example of improper mount.
anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Lol
In shotguns it’s very typical to turn your nose/head in toward the stock just a bit which rotates the on eye to that side some without having to roll over. But those guns are shot off hand and mounted across the body to some extent so not quite the same.
To facilitate this, many shotgun stocks have an adjustable comb that can move laterally as well as up and down. The lateral part seems less common in rifles but the KMW Loggerhead from Terry Cross offeres that functionality and I have one on a Rem 700 .308. And some stocks and chassis do offer laterally adjustable combs now.
I only mention shotguns as clay target shooters have been nuts about gun fit forever and it seems like a lot of these considerations have become widely applied to rifles more recently.
I shoot a J Allen chassis which goes up and down on the comb but no lateral. I find that in prone or bench, if I have my bipod high enough and keep the butt as close into my centerline as reasonable, that a little head turn/roll is still required but just a little. Not the way cocked head you see used as an example of improper mount.
anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Lol
Yeah it's like some of the people think they've discovered the secrets of gun fit and of canting rifles. Shit that other shooting disciplines have understood for decades.
BFD.
If I am 90° behind the rifle and i "turn" my head. I am no longer looking through the scope
100% agree on you other statement
Hi,
90deg behind the rifle?????????
Sincerely,
Theis
Alright....so let's clarify terms here when we are talking about rolling the head.
These shots are from Frank's vid on placing the stock.
This (below) is NOT what we are saying and this IS what Frank is using as an example of what NOT to do. Note the acute roll of he head resulting in this case from putting the butt in the shoulder pocket (way to far outside, right?).
Now, this (below) IS what we (I guess @308pirate and I, at least) are talking about and this IS what Frank is using as a what TO do example...that is, keep the butt inboard and reduce head roll. Please note that the degree of roll...probably best evaluated by looking at the top line of his sunglasses...is far, far less acute. But there still is some there because Frank's eye isn't on the side of his head next to his ear. haha
Now, in high mounted skeet, this would still be an unacceptable amount of head roll for many who want their eyes on absolutely perfect level to aid in precisely swinging the gun at a fast moving crossing target.
Now, I ain't telling Frank a fucking thing about how to shoot a scoped rifle. Matter of face, I'm in his clinic in late Sep and intend to listen and apply everything that Frank and Marc tell us. But, it does occur to me that if he turned his nose into the gun just a bit, it would reduce the amount of roll needed to get into the eye box. I'm sure that there is a damn good reason to not do this with rifles vs shotguns, but I can't imagine what it would be. The amount of nose turning I'm talking about is small...just enough to feel your eye tooth touch up against the stock. This is enough to move your eye inboard just a bit.
Alternatively, if you have a stock/chassis that allows the comb to be adjusted laterally as well as up/down, you can work with that also to keep your head up straight and still be in the eye box.
Also, a lot of this seems to be dependent on proper comb height to get into the eye box. Too low and you either have to be looking up thru your eyebrows, roll your head, or both to get behind the center line of the scope.
I hope my inexpert musings have been somewhat helpful to you.
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