Hey guys got a problem and some qustions. I have a savage with a benchmark barrel chambered in 7mm saum. I installed the barrel myself with a set of go no go guages from pacific tool. I also bought alot of brass up front as I didnt know how long it would be around. I have since loaded all the new brass up and once fired most of it some of it now has two firings on it. The first firing went fine and gave good acurracy. I loaded all the brass using a forester fl die and seater set fl sizing all new brass. Now when I resize fired brass and load it I sometimes have problems chambering the fl sized loaded round. The bad rounds have a little bolt drag and after firing have heavy bolt lift some had more drag then others and I noticed accuracy went away on loads that grouped very well on first firing. So after a short range session I used my hornady headspace guage to check things out. All new brass averages at 1.623 measured off the shoulder with the guage. Some of my now twice fired brass measures 1.629 after removing the primer and will not chamber. My problem is that the forester cannot bump the shoulders back further then 1.628 which seems to be why some shells wont chamber well after one or 2 firings. I also measured my go no go guages and get 1.623 on the go guage which matches up to the new brass and 1.6285 on the no go which will not chamber. So I was wondering if anyone had any ideas or info on this I 'm dont want to shoot cases that arent sized right but I dont know if the go no go guages are off or if I should check with forester and see if the dies need to be fixed. Thanks for any help and hope I explained things well enough.
- Thread starter matthew314
- Start date
Re: headspace problems?
1.6285 on the no go and yes I cammed over I have put as much force as possible on the arm and can only get the brass down to 1.628.
1.6285 on the no go and yes I cammed over I have put as much force as possible on the arm and can only get the brass down to 1.628.
Re: headspace problems?
1.6285 on the no go and yes I cammed over I have put as much force as possible on the arm and can only get the brass down to 1.628.
1.6285 on the no go and yes I cammed over I have put as much force as possible on the arm and can only get the brass down to 1.628.
Re: headspace problems?
Hmm well obviously from what you said the shoulder needs to be bumped back between 1.623-1.628 (maybe cut the difference?) Now you are full length resizing and can't get back into that range, so first I would see about when setting up your die you go a quarter of a turn past normal(maybe less) so that the bottom of the die touch the shell holder so when you cycle the ram that it engages the die snuggly with minimizing play. The purpose is cause there may be give in the die/press threads making it spring up a little by a few thousands just out of range. If that doesn't work you have two options which both involve spending cash. You can buy new dies or they make shell holders that sit higher (cheaper to go with new shell holders) I believe they are available at sincair.
Hmm well obviously from what you said the shoulder needs to be bumped back between 1.623-1.628 (maybe cut the difference?) Now you are full length resizing and can't get back into that range, so first I would see about when setting up your die you go a quarter of a turn past normal(maybe less) so that the bottom of the die touch the shell holder so when you cycle the ram that it engages the die snuggly with minimizing play. The purpose is cause there may be give in the die/press threads making it spring up a little by a few thousands just out of range. If that doesn't work you have two options which both involve spending cash. You can buy new dies or they make shell holders that sit higher (cheaper to go with new shell holders) I believe they are available at sincair.
Re: headspace problems?
Sorry for double post I dont know what happened. Electronics and I don't get alonf often. Lol
Sorry for double post I dont know what happened. Electronics and I don't get alonf often. Lol
Re: headspace problems?
Yeah I tried turning the die lower in increments from touching the holder to a half turn lower nothing helped sounds like I may need to spend money
Yeah I tried turning the die lower in increments from touching the holder to a half turn lower nothing helped sounds like I may need to spend money
Re: headspace problems?
Well I hate to say to do that cause it doesn't make since that a FL die set can't bump back a shoulder back to spec. Possibly the brass needs to be annealed? I am just speculating but maybe the brass is too stiff and not bumping back? From this picture if your dies are FL dies they should be bumping the shoulder back more than what they are http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/normasaumx350.png
Well I hate to say to do that cause it doesn't make since that a FL die set can't bump back a shoulder back to spec. Possibly the brass needs to be annealed? I am just speculating but maybe the brass is too stiff and not bumping back? From this picture if your dies are FL dies they should be bumping the shoulder back more than what they are http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/normasaumx350.png
Re: headspace problems?
You can take material off the dies or the shellholder. Most companies will fix them for you, if you send them about 3 fired cases. Not really an uncommon problem. I've had to send a couple of RCBS dies back to fit certain factory rifles. Both were Brownings that had tight chambers.
You can take material off the dies or the shellholder. Most companies will fix them for you, if you send them about 3 fired cases. Not really an uncommon problem. I've had to send a couple of RCBS dies back to fit certain factory rifles. Both were Brownings that had tight chambers.
Re: headspace problems?
What kind of lube are you using, a poor lube will cause variation in head space length due to friction in the die, just a thought.
Is it possible you got a neck die instead of a FL die, can you tell for sure the die is sizing the base of the brass?
Redding makes a set of Comp. shell holders that allow for changes in head space without adjusting your die, you could run the one that allows more bump than the factory shell holder your using.
What kind of lube are you using, a poor lube will cause variation in head space length due to friction in the die, just a thought.
Is it possible you got a neck die instead of a FL die, can you tell for sure the die is sizing the base of the brass?
Redding makes a set of Comp. shell holders that allow for changes in head space without adjusting your die, you could run the one that allows more bump than the factory shell holder your using.
Re: headspace problems?
1.6285 is the No Go, what does the Go measure, I think you may have incorrectly installed the barrel, remember I said may, if everything is GTG send the die back to Forster or grind some off the bottom
1.6285 is the No Go, what does the Go measure, I think you may have incorrectly installed the barrel, remember I said may, if everything is GTG send the die back to Forster or grind some off the bottom
Re: headspace problems?
What press? If a coax then you'll need to take a couple of 3 or 4 thousandths of the bottom of the die so that is just clears the sliding plates when the handle bottoms out. If a press that uses shellholders, you can buy thinner ones as mojojojo says or take a few thousandths off your present shellholder. Again, it doesn't have to be perfectly square if you give yourself a tiny bit of clearance when the handle is down. The square alignment will come from the bottom of the shell holder (or coax frame) and not the top of the holder or the bottom of the die. JMHO
What press? If a coax then you'll need to take a couple of 3 or 4 thousandths of the bottom of the die so that is just clears the sliding plates when the handle bottoms out. If a press that uses shellholders, you can buy thinner ones as mojojojo says or take a few thousandths off your present shellholder. Again, it doesn't have to be perfectly square if you give yourself a tiny bit of clearance when the handle is down. The square alignment will come from the bottom of the shell holder (or coax frame) and not the top of the holder or the bottom of the die. JMHO
Re: headspace problems?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1.6285 is the No Go, what does the Go measure, I think you may have incorrectly installed the barrel, remember I said may, if everything is GTG send the die back to Forster or grind some off the bottom </div></div>
Matthew 314--"I installed the barrel myself with a set of go no go guages from pacific tool."
I am seeing a pattern here, you need to install the barrell with a GO GAUGE and make sure the bolt does not close on the No-go gauge.
I suggest you check behind yourself on the barrel install.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1.6285 is the No Go, what does the Go measure, I think you may have incorrectly installed the barrel, remember I said may, if everything is GTG send the die back to Forster or grind some off the bottom </div></div>
Matthew 314--"I installed the barrel myself with a set of go no go guages from pacific tool."
I am seeing a pattern here, you need to install the barrell with a GO GAUGE and make sure the bolt does not close on the No-go gauge.
I suggest you check behind yourself on the barrel install.
Re: headspace problems?
Hey guys back again I must not have been clear in the first post I did install the barrel with a go guage and made sure it chambered. I then checked it with the no go guage. The no go would not chamber so the barrel should be correctly installed thank you for all replies though last night I shaved the shell holder down .015" and was able to bump the shoulder back enough to chamber twice fired shells and shoot them without any pressure spikes my groups returned to normal also. So I gues the dies and or shell holder were to blame. Also I was able to play with the new sierra 7mm 180 smk today. This bullet is the answer to anyone looking to feed a high bc bullet out of a short action with a long throated barrel. My loads had a shorter oal then any other bullet I have tried well under the aics acurate mag length and were still just off the lands the groups were also very promising at 200 yards. I'll post more info when I get a final load and shoot them out further. Again thanks for all replies.
Hey guys back again I must not have been clear in the first post I did install the barrel with a go guage and made sure it chambered. I then checked it with the no go guage. The no go would not chamber so the barrel should be correctly installed thank you for all replies though last night I shaved the shell holder down .015" and was able to bump the shoulder back enough to chamber twice fired shells and shoot them without any pressure spikes my groups returned to normal also. So I gues the dies and or shell holder were to blame. Also I was able to play with the new sierra 7mm 180 smk today. This bullet is the answer to anyone looking to feed a high bc bullet out of a short action with a long throated barrel. My loads had a shorter oal then any other bullet I have tried well under the aics acurate mag length and were still just off the lands the groups were also very promising at 200 yards. I'll post more info when I get a final load and shoot them out further. Again thanks for all replies.
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