I have a 7mm-08 built on a 700 action with a 22" Bartlein barrel, and have picked up quite a few Sierra MK's in 130 & 150gr, as well as some AMAX bullets in 162. Through a screw up on my part, I just picked up 7x boxes of Sierra 168gr bullets also for 7mm (thought they were .30 cal bullets). My concern is whether or not I can get enough velocity with the 22" 7mm08 to really benefit from the 162-168gr bullets. Will they be enough of an improvement over 130-150gr BTHP's in the rifle, or should I simply try moving them and sticking with something in the 150gr class? My goal 800-1k yards, but most of my shooting right now is 300 yards.
- Thread starter Jason280
- Start date
The age old question. Light fast bullets flying flat in the front, then dying off fast at the end. vs heavy bullets flying slow but hitting harder and arching the whole way. I just ordered 162 eld-x bullets for my 7mm-8. It’s just 18” barrel. I personally run heavy for caliber bullets in every rifle. What ever will Mag feed and group gets bought and shot.
With the 22” barrel your running I would defend try the 168. If they don’t work then you have an excuse to buy a 7mm Rem Mag. Good luck.
With the 22” barrel your running I would defend try the 168. If they don’t work then you have an excuse to buy a 7mm Rem Mag. Good luck.
I run a 7mm Creedmoor, but should be very comparable. The 160 class bullets do VERY well. Try some 8208xbr. I hesitated because I thought it was to fast of a powder. But I am sure glad I tried it.
Have you chrono’d anything out of your barrel ? I’ve got one cut to 18.5 and it kills deer and pigs fine but curiosity is getting to me and I’m debating buying a chrono.
Ive been running federal 140’s or hornady 139’s
I had a 7mm-08 built with a Mike Rock 8.5 twist barrel at 24" and I have been shooting 180gr ELD-Match bullets exclusively. Using 42.0 gr of RL-17 I have been getting 2625 fps on average. Believe it or not this set up will surpass a 300 WM shooting 190 gr SMKs in supersonic range and will surpass it in energy somewhere past 1200 yards.
In short I am still playing with the load on these. The RL-17 gives me the velocity I want but it has been hard on my brass (or my Starline brass sucks). It shoots @ .4" at 100 yards but is on rails out to 1000 yards. Overall I am really impressed with this little round.
In short I am still playing with the load on these. The RL-17 gives me the velocity I want but it has been hard on my brass (or my Starline brass sucks). It shoots @ .4" at 100 yards but is on rails out to 1000 yards. Overall I am really impressed with this little round.
26" 1/8 twist
162gr ELD-M
39.5 gr XBR 8208
2707
7mm-08 Ackley
162gr ELD-M
41.2 gr XBR
2805
The 7mm-08 and ackley are my favorite rounds. RL17 will get you 2900s with the 162 ELD-M and 2700+ with 175/180s
162gr ELD-M
39.5 gr XBR 8208
2707
7mm-08 Ackley
162gr ELD-M
41.2 gr XBR
2805
The 7mm-08 and ackley are my favorite rounds. RL17 will get you 2900s with the 162 ELD-M and 2700+ with 175/180s
I'd like to get 2600+ FPS out of the 22" barrel, using either IMR4064, XBR 8208, or Varget (I have a lot of these powders). 2600+ should be much better than anything I can get out of 168s or 175gr bullets in a .308, with a little less recoil. Of course, my .260 should easily beat either, but I don't think my 260 will be nearly as accurate as my 7mm-08 or .308 rifles.
With RL17, ramshot hunter, varget, XBR or maybe PP 2000MR you will get at least one or two powders that will get 2600+ and be accurate
No velocity’s yet. Received the bullets but to busy bow hunting at the moment. Highly likely I won’t chronograph the load reguardless. I’ll do it the old way as this rifle is a spot and stalk 300 yard max set up. Sure it can do much more, but then it’s shooting and not hunting. I think velocity gets way to much ink. There are many other factors for my application that are more important. Consistently being king for me.
If it goes like it’s brother (simulator build off a Remmy) I’ll hit around 2550. So any North American fur bearer with in 300 yards is humanity taken. That is if I ever hunt with a firearm again. Highly doubtful.
The real question here is twist? Your twist will dictate whether you can successfully use those bullets or not.
I run a 26" 1-8" twist 7mm-08. It will push 180's and 183's to 2700 fps. (long barrel, slow powder). The caveat there is with that tight twist, I think it puts a crimp in getting more speed from the 130's-150's. Seems like I can only get 2800 from the light bullets. Why push them when I can push 180's to a usable speed.
I run a 26" 1-8" twist 7mm-08. It will push 180's and 183's to 2700 fps. (long barrel, slow powder). The caveat there is with that tight twist, I think it puts a crimp in getting more speed from the 130's-150's. Seems like I can only get 2800 from the light bullets. Why push them when I can push 180's to a usable speed.
Graf’s has the Lapua 150 Scenar-L on sale for $229/1,000. You could run those at over 2,800 with Big Game or R17
I loaded a 162 gr ELD-M work up and shot those today. In short 45.6 gr of RL-17 gave me 2825 FPS and a one-hole group. I had zero pressure signs so I’m going to go up to the book max of 46.0 gr and try that out.
At that speed, the .670 BC. ELD-M will stay supersonic to 1525 yds and drops below 500 ft/lbs of energy at 1350 yards.
At that speed, the .670 BC. ELD-M will stay supersonic to 1525 yds and drops below 500 ft/lbs of energy at 1350 yards.
What powder mate?
RE-19. 44.1 gr. It's a compressed load.
Ah cheers mate. I’ve got a heap of Reloader 16 to try in the 7mmSAW. Unsure how well that will perform with 180s though. 26 inch barrels
should be just fine
44gr of power pro 2000 gives 2800 FPS with a 165 game changer in a 25” barrel. Should be over 2700 in a 22” barrel.
I'm going to load up a ladder test to shoot at 300 yards, but haven't quite decided on a powder. I have a bunch of Ramshot TAC, Varget, and IMR 4064, but also have a decent amount of the following:
-Norma MRP
-RL15 & RL19
-Ramshot Hunter
-H450
-IMR 4350
-H414
I know a lot of those will work decently, any one powder from the list above seem to do really well with the 7mm-08 and heavier bullets?
-Norma MRP
-RL15 & RL19
-Ramshot Hunter
-H450
-IMR 4350
-H414
I know a lot of those will work decently, any one powder from the list above seem to do really well with the 7mm-08 and heavier bullets?
Out of that list, IMR 4350 will do very well.
I assume he typod H4350. Which would be a top choice with varget
I have not run that heavy of a bullet in my wifes' 7-08. So far It loves the 139/140 bullets over H414//W760. 22" barrel and right at 2900fps.
Not really a heavyweight, but the easiest to find and most accurate load was the 139sst and varget in my 1/9 twist. Every load was under 1/2 MOA. If you ackley it, 3200fps was cake with no pressure ime
H41
H414 works really well. I have shot good groups with 42.5gr of H414 behind 180gr ELD-M bullets at 2525fps and 46gr behind 140gr Nosler AB at 2900fps. Just be aware of the temp sensitivity of that powder.
I have also used CFE223 with 180s with some success but the case fill was on the low side. It was very accurate though. I may need to give it a go behind some 162s just to try it out. FWIW CFE223 is the most accurate powder I have ever shot in a .308
H414 works really well. I have shot good groups with 42.5gr of H414 behind 180gr ELD-M bullets at 2525fps and 46gr behind 140gr Nosler AB at 2900fps. Just be aware of the temp sensitivity of that powder.
I have also used CFE223 with 180s with some success but the case fill was on the low side. It was very accurate though. I may need to give it a go behind some 162s just to try it out. FWIW CFE223 is the most accurate powder I have ever shot in a .308
Ok, finally had a chance to actually sit down and start working up a couple loads for ladder testing. My plan is to start with Hornady AMAX 162's, and see how they shoot in the rifle...I confirmed that is does have a 1/9 twist, so hopefully the 162s & 168s won't be an issue.
I'm also hoping that I can stick with H414, as I have over 16lbs of the stuff. I've been using the Hodgdon online reloading data site, and some of the information is a little odd. For one thing, it lists the H414 powder range with a 168 from 44-46.5gr (max of 49.8K CUP)...162's, on the other hand, are listed with the same powder from 43.0-45.0gr (max of 44.5k CUP). Any reason they would max out lower on the 162s, even with the CUP being lower? As long as I am not seeing any pressure signs, any reason I can't go ahead and work a ladder up (in 0.3gr increments) to 46.5gr with the 162s?
I'm also hoping that I can stick with H414, as I have over 16lbs of the stuff. I've been using the Hodgdon online reloading data site, and some of the information is a little odd. For one thing, it lists the H414 powder range with a 168 from 44-46.5gr (max of 49.8K CUP)...162's, on the other hand, are listed with the same powder from 43.0-45.0gr (max of 44.5k CUP). Any reason they would max out lower on the 162s, even with the CUP being lower? As long as I am not seeing any pressure signs, any reason I can't go ahead and work a ladder up (in 0.3gr increments) to 46.5gr with the 162s?
The 168s have less bearing surface. You will be able to push 168s actually faster.
The 7-08 with 168SMK was/is THE 500m rambuster in rifle metallic silhouette. This load is almost the single reason the reason the 7-08 exists.
In addition the 7-08 was Olympic champ, and founder of AI, Malcolm Coopers favorite round in his own match rifles. I saw him using the "new" AI qd barrel system on his rifles around 1980. He effortlessly changed match and training barrels on the range to the other shooters amazement at the time.
In addition the 7-08 was Olympic champ, and founder of AI, Malcolm Coopers favorite round in his own match rifles. I saw him using the "new" AI qd barrel system on his rifles around 1980. He effortlessly changed match and training barrels on the range to the other shooters amazement at the time.
Took my 7mm-08 out to 940 yards. I’ve settled on a load of 45.6 gr of RL17 pushing 162gr Hornady ELD-M pills out of Norma brass with CCI BR-2 primers. I was dialing 6.9 mils of come-up and about .7 mils of windage in an 11 mph cross wind. I absolutely wore out the 10” gong and made a first round head shot on an IPSC Target (@6”). With the .670 BC of these bullets, this thing walks all over my 6.5 CM.
6.9 mils! That's hard to beat with out going magnum. 6mm might he flatter, but that 7mm SMACKS steel. I don't know why the the non magnum 7mms don't take off. Only down fall I can think of is a little more recoil. But it is far from uncontrollable. My 7mm Creedmoor runs similar #s.
I hope to get the rifle to the range tomorrow, with plans on shooting the ladder tests at 300 yards. I'm very interested in seeing what velocities I get with H414, my goal is 2600fps out of the 22" barrel. I've run some numbers at 2575fps, and it gives me 4.88 MOA (1.4 mil) at 300 yards and 35 MOA (10 mil) at 1k.
Yeah it lays the wood at range for sure! At 940 yards the 162 ELD-M is still bringing 1000 lbs of energy. The 180 gr ELD-M is bringing 1015 lbs. For comparison my 300 Win Mag shooting 190 gr SMKs is at 1010 lbs, my 6.5 CM with 147 gr ELD-M is at 700 lbs and my 168 gr ELD-M out of my .308 is at 660 lbs.
I think the reason the 7mm cartridges took a while to catch on (and still haven't in many cases) was the lack of high BC match bullets. The new Hornady ELD-Ms and ELD-Xs have changed that considerably.
I don't think the recoil is bad at all. I have an APA Lil B on it and if I load the bipod correctly it stays on target with zero issues.
Ok, finally had a chance to get to the range yesterday. Temps were in the mid 40's, and calm early...although developing into a decent wind of around 10mph from 11-12 o'clock.
I was able to shoot two ladder tests at 300 yards with the rifle, both with 162gr AMAX bullets to 2.840" and H414 powder (43.0-45.3gr). In one of the ladders, I used Win brass with CCI BR primers, and in the other I used Remington brass with Wolf primers. I've had good success with these primers in .308 loads, wanted to see how they did with the 7mm-08.
Here is some of the data:
Win brass w/ CCI BR
43.0 2520
43.2 2530
43.5 2578
43.8 2534
44.1 2578 2594
44.4 2609
44.7 2624
45.0 2640
45.3 2672
RP brass w/ Wolf
43.0 2559
43.2 2574
43.5 2559
43.8 2635
44.1 2624 2650 2635 2635 2635 2624 2614 (I used this load as a sighter for 100 & 300 yards)
44.4 *no idea on velocity, somehow missed this one
44.7 2677 2682 2704 2650 2682 2672 (sighter load)
45.0 2661
45.3 2704
At no point did the bolt get stiff, stayed the same pretty much throughout the load.
I was able to shoot two ladder tests at 300 yards with the rifle, both with 162gr AMAX bullets to 2.840" and H414 powder (43.0-45.3gr). In one of the ladders, I used Win brass with CCI BR primers, and in the other I used Remington brass with Wolf primers. I've had good success with these primers in .308 loads, wanted to see how they did with the 7mm-08.
Here is some of the data:
Win brass w/ CCI BR
43.0 2520
43.2 2530
43.5 2578
43.8 2534
44.1 2578 2594
44.4 2609
44.7 2624
45.0 2640
45.3 2672
RP brass w/ Wolf
43.0 2559
43.2 2574
43.5 2559
43.8 2635
44.1 2624 2650 2635 2635 2635 2624 2614 (I used this load as a sighter for 100 & 300 yards)
44.4 *no idea on velocity, somehow missed this one
44.7 2677 2682 2704 2650 2682 2672 (sighter load)
45.0 2661
45.3 2704
At no point did the bolt get stiff, stayed the same pretty much throughout the load.
I also had some loads with 162 AMAX bullets and RL19 that I had loaded up some time ago, but with an OAL longer than what I could load into the AICS mag (I think they were around 2.930"). Not sure why I loaded them this long, but I tried them nonetheless. Accuracy was decent, but I never could get the velocity I really wanted...max was an avg of around 2575fps at 48.0gr. 46.5 was the smallest group, under 3/4", but velocity was avg 2515fps.
Another load I found that I had put together some time ago, still not sure why, was Winchester nickle brass with FGMM primers and H414, also loaded out to around 2.930". 44.6 & 45.5gr both gave 1" or better groups, with velocity over 2600fps, but I would be nervous about 45.5gr on a warm day. Bolt still wasn't stiff, but I could definitely feel it in the rifle and bolt was just a tad bit "different" opening. 44.6gr over 5 shots gave me an ES of 15 and SD of 6.
So, I am not sure how I should proceed. I definitely want to work up a solid load with the 162's (and eventually the 168's) with H414, as I have over 16lbs of it to use. My goal is to get to 1k yards, just need to find a consistent sub MOA load.
Now, all of the brass I have used has been full length sized, and I haven't gotten into bump/neck sizing yet. I have a Forster bum sizing die w/ bushings, as well as the RCBS precision mic and Hornady case comparator kit. I know the smart thing would be to just buy a few hundred cases of Lapua or Nosler brass and be done with it, but should have enough cases that I can prep that should get me close to their consistency.
Another load I found that I had put together some time ago, still not sure why, was Winchester nickle brass with FGMM primers and H414, also loaded out to around 2.930". 44.6 & 45.5gr both gave 1" or better groups, with velocity over 2600fps, but I would be nervous about 45.5gr on a warm day. Bolt still wasn't stiff, but I could definitely feel it in the rifle and bolt was just a tad bit "different" opening. 44.6gr over 5 shots gave me an ES of 15 and SD of 6.
So, I am not sure how I should proceed. I definitely want to work up a solid load with the 162's (and eventually the 168's) with H414, as I have over 16lbs of it to use. My goal is to get to 1k yards, just need to find a consistent sub MOA load.
Now, all of the brass I have used has been full length sized, and I haven't gotten into bump/neck sizing yet. I have a Forster bum sizing die w/ bushings, as well as the RCBS precision mic and Hornady case comparator kit. I know the smart thing would be to just buy a few hundred cases of Lapua or Nosler brass and be done with it, but should have enough cases that I can prep that should get me close to their consistency.
The max load of H414 according to the Hornady manual is 46.6 gr. They also have an OAL of 2.755" with the 162gr ELD-M and X. And you could try magnum primers considering H414 is a ball powder.
FWIW they also have a max load of 46.0 for RL17. I settled on 45.6gr at 2825fps after running a load work up all the way to 46.0gr. I had very light ejector swipes at 46.0 but the primers were fine. I ultimately had tighter groups and a nice node from 45.4gr-45.7gr.
I guess what I'm saying is I feel like you may have more room to push the load if you choose and squeeze some more velocity out of it. Also I've found that these ELD-M bullets have shot very well at shorter (~2.80-2.82") OALs; at least in the three guns that I shoot them out of.
Oddly enough, I had a few loads with H414 all the way to 46.6gr, but never tried them. These were some that I had loaded up a while back, but for soe reason, I went with Hodgdon data which gave a max 45.0gr with 162gr bullets. Of course, I'm not sure if the Hornady data for the 162gr AMAX is any different than the ELD data, but all I have are the AMAX bullets. I still have 10 or so loaded up with 46.6gr, may be worth it to at least try (especially in the cooler weather).
I'll give it a try, either way I have plenty of 162gr AMAX bullets and H414 to use. As far as you mentioning mag primers, I do actually have around 6-700 FGMM 215M large rifle magnum primers...are you saying it would be OK to try them in the 7mm-08 with H414? I've never loaded anything with LR mag primers, and to be honest, I am not sure where I even go these (I have zero mag rifle cartridges).
A lot of people use magnum primers with ball powder. One of the reloading manuals (not sure which one but maybe Speer) only uses magnum primers for their ball powder data. All of their ball powder loads have asterisks by them denoting loads were tested with magnum primers.
If you go that route start low and work your way up obviously.
Got out and did some shooting today with a few loads I worked up. I was shooting 180 gr ELD-M bullets over 43.3 gr of H4350 (Hornady book max) in Starline brass with CCI BR2 primers. I averaged 2570 fps with an extreme spread of 17 fps. I had zero pressure signs and it grouped nicely even with the called flier. I am going to bump this load up and try 43.5 and 43.7 gr as well. I would like to get a load in the 2650 range that groups like this.
I just thought I’d post an update on the work I’ve been doing with my 7mm-08.
Today I went to the range with a couple of work ups. The first was some blem 183gr SMKs loaded in Winchester brass with WLR primers and Hodgdon Superformance powder. I started at 46gr and worked up in .3 incerements to 47.8 gr. Long story short: the 47.8 had zero pressure signs and averaged 2670fps. Group size was about 1/2”. Three shots in a row at 840 yds on the 1moa gong. I’m going to push this load a bit because it was tightening up as it got faster.
The second load was 162gr Hornady Match bthp over CFE223. I started at 44 gr and worked up to 45.5. I used CCI 250 primers in Starline brass. Col was 2.850”. All loads looked perfect coming out but he last two loads were a little sticky with the 45.5 getting a heavy bolt lift as well. Velocity ranged from 2790 all the way up to 2910! I settled on 44.6 as it was right in the middle of a node at around 2830 and just so happened to shoot a one hole group. I plan on trying this work up again with Fed GM210M primers.
Overall I am really pleased with the capabilities of this cartridge with the heavy ELD/VLD type bullets.
Today I went to the range with a couple of work ups. The first was some blem 183gr SMKs loaded in Winchester brass with WLR primers and Hodgdon Superformance powder. I started at 46gr and worked up in .3 incerements to 47.8 gr. Long story short: the 47.8 had zero pressure signs and averaged 2670fps. Group size was about 1/2”. Three shots in a row at 840 yds on the 1moa gong. I’m going to push this load a bit because it was tightening up as it got faster.
The second load was 162gr Hornady Match bthp over CFE223. I started at 44 gr and worked up to 45.5. I used CCI 250 primers in Starline brass. Col was 2.850”. All loads looked perfect coming out but he last two loads were a little sticky with the 45.5 getting a heavy bolt lift as well. Velocity ranged from 2790 all the way up to 2910! I settled on 44.6 as it was right in the middle of a node at around 2830 and just so happened to shoot a one hole group. I plan on trying this work up again with Fed GM210M primers.
Overall I am really pleased with the capabilities of this cartridge with the heavy ELD/VLD type bullets.
