Rifle Scopes Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

[Mall Ninja308556]

I have been lurking for a while on a few different forums and this one seems to be the most knowledgeable.

I am ordering a DPMS LR308 soon and have a few questions before I do so. Let me start by listing the basics of what I intend to do with the rifle:

80% weekend shooter with buddies at the range or in the "bush". Up to 600+ yds.?

15% Hunting rifle (deer, elk, hog). So 100-300 yds.?

5% SHTF go to rig.

I am very up in the air right now on my barrel and optics choice. I plan to spend $300-$500 for glass but may have to pony up more for what I want. I do not want to have more scope than the rifle or myself can use.

So far here is the basics:

Undecided:
16", 18" or longer barrel?
Bull barrel or not to bull?***
SS or molly?
Flute?
How much magnification?

What I have decided on:
2 stage trigger
FF hand guard
Bi-pod

Possible in the future suppressing so not a good idea to go 16" to avoid having to pin on the adapter?

I am fairly skilled and can shoot well under pressure. After reading the FAQ I am torn between Mil or MOA and is an FFP scope with clickers matching the reticle in my price range?

I am interested in furthering my training (classes) so I planned to get anti-cant and angle gauge in the future for longer range stuff. I want to be proficient with the setup and actually know how to use this stuff properly.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

If your budget is in the $300-$500 range, then get the Mueller Tactical II. It has close to 100MOA of travel, light and fairly compact (for a shorter barrel rifle like 16-18" barrel), track well, is reliable, and has mil dots. It also has a mag range of 3x to 10x. 3x is good for closer range hunting and battle while 10x is good for the longer range shots you intend.

You aren't getting a decent ffp for that price so get the best sfp instead.

I run my AR suppressed and one of the things I have to do is to have an adjustable gas block to control the amount of gas that cycles the BCG. Too much gas and I find the bcg dirting up real quick and jamming. With an adjustable one, I can set the right amount of gas for reliable cycling.

 

[Mall Ninja308556]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You aren't getting a decent ffp for that price so get the best sfp instead.</div></div>

How much do I need to up my budget to get an ffp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run my AR suppressed and one of the things I have to do is to have an adjustable gas block to control the amount of gas that cycles the BCG. </div></div>

Yeah I figured I would need one down the line.

10 or 15 platform?

How many rounds before mal's start?

 

[Jeepocabra]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mall Ninja308556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You aren't getting a decent ffp for that price so get the best sfp instead.</div></div>

How much do I need to up my budget to get an ffp?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run my AR suppressed and one of the things I have to do is to have an adjustable gas block to control the amount of gas that cycles the BCG. </div></div>

Yeah I figured I would need one down the line.

10 or 15 platform?

How many rounds before mal's start? </div></div>

You have to up the scope cost to about 700 for a Swfa SS 3-9, they are about the only FFP scope for that low. How ever FFP depends on what type of shooing you do, if your not going to be range estimating with the scope there is no advantage to it.

 

[Mall Ninja308556]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

Actually, I plan to learn how to range using MOA or MIL. Do you have to get them direct? I didnt find any listings on Amazon or Cheaper than dirt.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

I got an AR-15 with rifle length gas tube. Without the adjustable gas block, mine would start showing deteriorating performance after just 15 rounds with jams after 25. Each AR is different since the gas hole in the barrel maybe cut larger or smaller from barrel to barrel. Also the tolerance in the upper may be different from make to make. Mine is a CNC billet receiver so the tolerance is tight...thus it jams quicker for the trade off of me being able to shoot .3MOA 5 shot groups at 100.

If you plan on doing ranging, the SFP 3-10x Mueller Tac 2 w/ mildot can still do the job. Sure you need to set it at 10x to range but that isn't a prohibitively high magnification. And it is still a good mag to shoot at intermediate and long range. At short range you don't need to range anyways...just point and shoot.

If you are hunting with mildot holdovers at 300 with a 100 yard zero, just put the target on the dot below the reticle crosshair and you will be mostly on (at 10x). The drop at 300 is pretty close for most centerfire calibers from a hunting point of view.

FFP only really comes into its own for mags higher than 10x or when you are trying to shoot movers at whatever mag, IMO.

Ranging is pretty easy. For mildots, it is 3.6" between each dot at 100 yards for the ranging magnification on a SFP. If using meters, it is 10 cm per dot at 100 meters.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

For starters, welcome to the forum.

MIL/MOA? Pick one, either one. A lot find it easier to use mils and a base 10 system, myself included, but others prefer MOA and the fractions thereof. Research it and decide for yourself. The subject has been beaten to death on this forum, so try the Google search feature on the right below the Shout Box.

FFP with a max magnification of 10x is not necessary, and you probably won't see the full benefit of it anyhow. You can feel safe sticking with SFP. I have the SWFA SS 3-9x and I never use the mildots under 9x as it is inside 200yds, and very rarely inside 300. Not that it isn't a great scope, but I don't get the full benefit of FFP with it for my usage. If you're going to keep your ranges at >100yds, you might want to go with a fixed 10x too.

Screw Amazon and Cheaper Than Dirt..... SWFA is my favorite optics vendor, as evidenced by the thousands of dollars I've dropped with them. They are also the ONLY source for the SWFA SS line. There are numerous vendors on this site that are a pleasure to do business with and will take care of you very well if you give them a call. They're the guys with their names in orange.

For the rifle, keep it light if you want to carry it in the bush a lot. The ranges you intend on shooting a 16" barrel will not hinder you, but it will have a bark to it so +1 on the suppressor. Good barrels bring accuracy to the table, the rest is up to you.

Finally, buy once, cry once. It's better (and cheaper in the long run) to save up and get a piece of sufficient quality gear right off the bat rather than settling for crap because you're impatient.

 

[Mall Ninja308556]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

Thanks for the replies guys you have helped immensly! I was beginning to wonder if FFP was worth the money in such a low mag scope.

Believe me I would love to be able to spend $1500+ on glass right now but its not in the budget. I am also reluctant to spend a bunch right now until I nail down the rig as well.

Im thinking 18" for a safe buffer (15.9" puts you in prison, idiot ATF) and maybe a mid weight barrel in Stainless. Going with a 10x SFP and learning whichever method (MIL/MOA) and then being able to make a more educated decision on future rifle/glass before spending a few grand will make me feel better with my investment.

I may just build a bolt gun next and then get into high mag/FFP and start doing more long range stuff.

Im liking the idea of:

Saving weight on a shorter non-bull barrel
Saving $$$ for future glass by staying SFP for this rig.
Keeping the budget down allows for a quicker purchase of a supressor too.
This would give me a relatively light and compact rig to get me into the "precision" venue without having to sell 3 of my motorcycles to fund it!

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

Here's my final suggestions, and this goes for you and any other new precision shooter looking to epuip themselves.

Fill out your profile with location and find other shooters to link up with in the member linkup forum. Check out their gear, ask them questions, and research the hell out of anything before you buy. Shooters love showing off their kit, all you have to do is ask, and the tactical precision shooters are some of the best people I've ever encountered.

This sport can be VERY expensive or it can be fairly low cost, just depends on how serious you want to get. Live within your own budget and don't get preoccupied with keeping up with the Joneses. Most of us are more impressed with a $1k beater and near shot out barrel than a $10k safe queen and double digit round count.

Get yourself a good rig to start with and invest in ammo/reloading components. Range time will get you much further than the coolest kit will. Don't be afraid of something used when bought from a reputable member on this forum. It really helps to stretch your dollars.

If you are brand new to shooting, get instruction right off the bat in basic marksmanship fundamentals through CMP/NRA or similar. For those more experienced, take one of the courses such as what Rifles Only offers. Training and coaching from dedicated professionals is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Mall Ninja308556]

Re: Hello eveyone, typical NOOB with a few questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the SFP 3-10x Mueller Tac 2 w/ mildot can still do the job. Sure you need to set it at 10x to range but that isn't a prohibitively high magnification. </div></div>

Whoa are these scopes legit?

http://www.amazon.com/Mueller-8-5-25x44-...6361&sr=1-3

Thats scary cheap! The link is for a higher mag version, or is there a knock-off copy?

I have a Remmy R-25 now and after shooting it on a loaner 3-9x scope I can say that I need more mag! What do you guys think about the Nikon Monarch's? There is a 8-32x, but from what I can tell no mil dot option. =(