Help 178ELDX crunching

[1jonathan1994]

308. IMR4064. 178ELDX. I looked up data on 175gr pills saying 41.5 to 45.6 gr. Started at 40 in IMI match brass and started crunching quick. Tried some hornady brass and only got a little farther. I could not even seat the bullets to depth.

I stopped and discover the 178ELDX is much longer than the 175gr pills.

Does anyone have data for 178ELDX and IMR4064 or should i get a new powder?

 

[Onyx Z]

What COAL?

 

[1jonathan1994]

What COAL?

2.85 max for an ASC magazine

 

[Onyx Z]

2.85 max for an ASC magazine

You will likely need a ball powder to obtain velocity with mag length loads with these bullets. I have no experience with 2000MR, but I would look into using it if I were going mag length. You can use a compressed load with extruded powders like 4064 and Varget, but you need to know what you are doing or bad things can happen.

I use 4064 also, but I load mine to 2.955, so they are single load rounds.

 

[XLR308]

Another thing that will get you a little more wiggle room is using a drop tube or finding an alternate method of settling the powder. I hear an electric tooth brush works pretty damn good but I have made several drop tubes from Easton Axis 340 carbon arrows that works extreamly well also.

 

[1jonathan1994]

Has anyone got min and max charge for 178ELDX and IMR4064? The min for SMK might be near the top for this long bullet.

 

[XLR308]

Just go to the Hodgdon powder website, that will give you a base to work from.

 

[1jonathan1994]

Hodgon doesn't have the 178ELDX either. It goes from 180 to 190 and my Berger book says 185' s are similar length. It says 37 -41 @ 103% so my starting load is actually a max load. I'll try staring around 37 and go up in 0.5 increments in the hornady brass.
Looks h4895 is a better choice. Ramshot Tac (ball) is right behind .

 

[XLR308]

Hodgon doesn't have the 178ELDX either. It goes from 180 to 190 and my Berger book says 185' s are similar length. It says 37 -41 @ 103% so my starting load is actually a max load. I'll try staring around 37 and go up in 0.5 increments in the hornady brass.
Looks h4895 is a better choice. Ramshot Tac (ball) is right behind .

They have the 175 data that maxes at 45.6 and 180 data that maxes at 45.2 seems pretty logical to me to either split the difference or just pick one and work a ladder up from the low end in .2 or .3 grain increases looking for pressure signs.
The COAL you listed is going to be longer than any they have listed so you may end up a little over or under on charge weights depending on what brass you are using and it's internal capacity.

The powder you are using is a great powder in 308win but has its shortfalls due to the shape and length of the powder kernals, the tips I mentioned will help with that but won't completely eliminate it. If you want to switch powders but want to also stay with something with good temp stability try Varget or AR-COMP with the 178 if you go with a ball powder just expect bigger velocity swings with temp changes.
Working up a load in the winter with ball powder if you are anywhere near the max charge I would expect those loads to be overpressure or to hot in the summer months depending on the ambient temps were you live.

 

[Juggerxxx]

How much crunch are you hearing and feeling? Some crunch is not a bad thing. As people have mentioned use a drop tube. Here is the one I use and it makes a big difference. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/293879/forster-blue-ribbon-powder-funnel-with-long-drop-tube
I use it when loading the 178ELDx, Varget and Lapua Brass. Below is the higher end of my data.

 

[Juggerxxx]

Here’s a video

 

[1jonathan1994]

I used a drop tube but both hornady and IMI brass showed pressure on different sides of 43gr of 4064.
178ELDX is so long it consumes powder room. Factory ammo runs 2510 fps. I'm seeing accuracy at below 2450 fps and above that everything is wild including the factory hornady.
18 jp 308 btw. And I doubt any powder will push me above the 2500 inaccuracy node for this barrel.
41.5 gr had an sd of 5 in both IMI match brass and hornady brass, but the IMI was 20 fps faster and scattered. I'll try hornady brass at 41.3, 41.4,&41.5. If none work I'll start over.
I can't tweak seating depth as I'm caught between mag length and compressed load.

 

[GONE BAD]

I talked my buddy into trying RL15 and 4064 with the 178 ELD-X's . Couldn't get enough RL15 in the case for his rifle
(Coustom built AR 10).
Went to 4064 . Compressed 43.8 in Hornady brass and got 2720 fps. Brass was done in two firings. Backed it down to
43.6 and got 2670. Rifle shoots great but it's an exceptional rifle. It shoots bugholes!
So anyway what I'm saying is: 4064 can be compressed. Just work up your load.

I used to run 43 gr. of 4064 with the 178's compressed but went a different direction
Now using RDF 175's with 8208 for my rifle.

 

[308pirate]

This is why I love TAC for heavy 308 loads