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Help AR malfunction issue??

hitman

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 23, 2004
717
262
Tampa, FL
I bought a brand new direct from SMOS Arms complete upper that I took out today and it was a damn nightmare. I am not sure what the issue is actually. it is a complete upper with a new BCG. I put it on one of my lowers that has a Geiselle Super 42 buffer and braided spring in it. These are on most of my AR rifles and all work great with them. So, I also tried three different factory Magpul new mags and was using all great ammo. I tried black Hills, Federal, Hornady and copper creek and each type and mag combo all has the same issues.

It shoots and ejects fine but it ejects at about 5 o'clock. it pick up the next round but it jams in the top of the receiver or they take a nose dive and jam into the feed ramps. Like I said I thought at first mag issue but no go on other mags. It is accurate what I can get it to shoot 5 rds in a row. In one hr the damn thing malfunctioned at least 10 times. And it almost never locked back on the last round.

Any suggestions? it is not an adjustable gas block and is a 14.5 mid-length gas system Shilen barrel. I was going to change the buffer maybe to a light weight buffer?? I cannot try much because the muzzle is pinned and welded, so it is buffer and BCG I am hoping to fix it. I contacted SMOS Arms and will see what they say but I wanted to see if it is fix or not. I appreciate it!


Update- I swapped the Geiselle system for a stand. weight buffer and spring and it functioned 100% today and locked back every last rd. fired. The ejection pattern is also normal- right at 3-4 position. What is weird it took about 10 rds before it started to eject to the right point. The first 10 rds fired ejected very far back still almost to the 6 o'clock. But I tried prob. 100 rds today and it shot great. Many 1 rd shots to see if it locked back every time and it did.


What I do like is it shoots everything pretty well. Maybe the most consistent gun I have seen. No matter what ammo I shot (except Bl Hills) it was right around 1- 1 1/4" groups. even cheap ass American Eagle 55 gr. shot that and the Fronteir 55 grn. shot right at 1"! Black Hills 77 grn. 5.56 shot a .6" 5 round group also. It did not group better then around 1" though with anything but the Bl. Hills. I shot, Horn. 75 T2, two types of 77 smk Creemoore ammo, IMI 77 gr, Fronteir 75, and 62 and 68 all macth, but all the same- 1"

I am not complaining at all at least it shot 1" with cheap ammo and really likes the Black Hills 77 smk! It is smooth shooting. Oh, and SMOS arms did get back to me on Friday and was helpful. So, they are not bad either. In all, I am very happy that all it is was a buffer swap and it shoots sub moa groups with almost anything I fed it!
 
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I wonder if they installed the gas block where it's covering part of the port on the barrel. Not locking back on an empty mag suggests it's undergassed which is a very rare problem with an AR.
 
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That is kind of what I thought as well. They seem like they do good work but everyone can make a mistake. I checked the gas block set screws and they are tight and there is no marks at all around the gas block that would lead be to think it is leaking, no black etc.. It seems perfectly lined up also. I may swap for a lighter buffer and see if that fixes it but like I said I use the Gieselle on all my AR and I have 9!
 
You didn't mention what caliber the upper is. In looking at Geissele's site it makes note of not using your spring and buffer combo with subsonic .300 Blackout as the spring is to strong and lead to malfunctions. Even though you tried it with several new Magpul mags, did you try using any others that you know function fine in your other guns?
 
It is a 5.56 upper and yeh I use two of the mags in other rifles fine and one was brand new never even used I throw in my range bag as back-up. I wonder if it may be the spring and buffer. I do not have a carbine buffer but I think I will order one and try it.


Do you think the JP Silent capture spring stand. weight would work?
 
I would start by calling the manufacturer and telling them what spring and buffer you are using and see if they have tried that combination. Ask what they recommend and give that a try and if you are still having problems, then you might be losing gas somewhere.
 
It is overgassed, since you don't have an adjustable gas block you will need to go to a heavier spring. Just load one and fire and see if it locks back, my guess is it will, if so that is your answer.
 
It is overgassed, since you don't have an adjustable gas block you will need to go to a heavier spring. Just load one and fire and see if it locks back, my guess is it will, if so that is your answer.

This is probably the issue and fix.

I had 2 Mk12 uppers share a lower with a H2 in it. The 18" worked fine on the H2 but the 16" Mod Holland would have the same issue where it would lock back, but it would crush rounds on the feed ramp and jam. I switched the Holland setup to a H3 and it never did it again.
 
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Would it not lock back if it was overgassed? I thought under will cause that, or is it traveling too fast? I have an H2 buffer I can throw in there and try. I will see what SMOS says hopefully today.
 
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You said this was brand new?
Have you stripped the upper and bcg for a complete thorough clean and lube?

Some crud from mfg process can remain and congeal but not yet look dirty.

I have had some fierarms run out of the box with a quick clean and some
took extensive cleaning session.

I have gotten excited over a new firearm and had skipped strait to,
and all the way to the range. Lol
 
Start with a standard spring and carbine buffer in all new uppers to check for function etc. Barrels are made to run on carbine buffers but most companies usually drill the gas hole slightly larger to ensure that the upper will work with all types of ammo. Adding buffer weights is used to slow down the bolt. We almost always end up changing them down the line and that's fine but you do not want to start a new upper with something more than the standard equipment.

Ex. I had a new 6.8 upper and used a lower off another gun and forgot it had an H1 or H2 in it. I had a bunch of feeding issues and almost drilled out the gas hole bigger until I realized I had an H1/2 in the gun. Changed it out to a carbine and gun has been fine since.
 
... I had 2 Mk12 uppers share a lower with a H2 in it. The 18" worked fine on the H2 but the 16" Mod Holland would have the same issue where it would lock back, but it would crush rounds on the feed ramp and jam. I switched the Holland setup to a H3 and it never did it again ...

What is the "scientific" reason why the H3 helped? I have two "precision" (super hahaha) lowers ... and wonder if I need to try H3 ... though one of them seems more "sensitive" than the other. I have had same symptom ... BCG locks back ... crushed rounds on the feed ramp ...

==
 
Would it not lock back if it was overgassed? I thought under will cause that, or is it traveling too fast? I have an H2 buffer I can throw in there and try. I will see what SMOS says hopefully today.

Yes, it would lock back if over gassed but will not if under gassed. My point, clearly not explained well, is that if it locks back you know it is not under gassed and have your answer which is over gassed.
 
What is the "scientific" reason why the H3 helped? I have two "precision" (super hahaha) lowers ... and wonder if I need to try H3 ... though one of them seems more "sensitive" than the other. I have had same symptom ... BCG locks back ... crushed rounds on the feed ramp ...

==

Heavier weights, which takes more inertia to push back, thus slowing down the BCG. Side benefit is that a heavier spring will also cut through crude if dirty when cycling but the cost is slightly more recoil pulse felt.
 
Mid length 14.5 not locking back most of the time with 5:00 ejection and jamming...my guess would be under gassed. It sounds like what mine do when i am adjusting the gas blocks and restrict just a little too much gas. Like someone said above, i would try a standard carbine buffer and spring and see what happens.
 
It's under gassed for those components, use a lighter buffer or standard spring.
 
It's under gassed for those components, use a lighter buffer or standard spring.
Mid length 14.5 not locking back most of the time with 5:00 ejection and jamming...my guess would be under gassed. It sounds like what mine do when i am adjusting the gas blocks and restrict just a little too much gas. Like someone said above, i would try a standard carbine buffer and spring and see what happens.


Where does he say it doesnt lock back?

edit: Oh sheeet, I didnt see that part of the comment, I will shut up now
 
I appreciate all the feedback! I am going to get it out to the range later this week and try a lighter buffer and spring and I am hoping this helps and functions 100%. It sucks because I like the Super 42 spring. So, if that fixes it I may try the JP Silent capture stand. weight version.

Has anyone tried the Bootleg adj. bolt carrier group? It looks pretty slick also.
 
Oh and by the way huge thumbs down to SMOS arms for their total lack of customer service. I emailed them on Sun. and never got a response. However, the company I ordered it from (the great equalizer) responded mon. and is very helpful.