- Thread starter pmclaine
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When I used 4064 my load was 42.1. I shot some of my best groups with it. Same case, but Winchester primers and loaded to 2.85"oal
I was shooting WLRPs and I was get blown primers.
lots of people chimed in about big Fed primer pockets and small Win primers.
So I went to CCI 200s
Next year and from then on when I do this Ill be using Fed 210s
I had the Winchester primers pinhole on the edge of the cups with 44 grains of varget and a 155 scenario. They are junk and I won't ever use another one again. Pitted the bolt on my AI pretty bad before I noticed.
That was the issue I was having pin holing with a hot ass jet of gas eroding my sweet bolt face.
Fed 210s from now on in FGMM after I burn up my 1000 CCI.
Never had a problem with thousands of WLRP in other brass types.
Powder valley still has 210m's.
Thinking my next step was going to be
5 at 41
5 at 41.2
5 at 41.4
My OCD will tell me the answer was either 41.1 or 41.3
Not the other day.
I just ordered 5000 Fed 210s (non M) from them the other day.
Vista Sports has a rebate going - 20% off reloading components.
Paid for my haz mat with the rebate savings.
According to their website they are in stock. Hard to say how up to date it is.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/federal-gm210m-lg-rfl-match-1000/
Agreed. Don't think you'll see a huge difference.
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Are you intentionally loading for the low node? The middle node should be somewhere around 43.6 grains. I would expect the low node to be around 42.3 grains.
That’s not where the node is
Ya any reason why you’re loading that low?
If you have time start at about post 55 here....
42.3/42.4 was going to be my chosen load prior to switching from WLRPs
Appreciate any input you all can provide looking at my series of targets from post 55 on.
I was doing either 40.5 or 40.7 of IMR4064 with Lapua Brass when I was doing the 175 SMK at 2.85" OAL
~2725 FPS and 1/2 MOA out of my 1:10 26" Savage 10 all day long.
~2725 FPS and 1/2 MOA out of my 1:10 26" Savage 10 all day long.
I was there. You weren't. 37.25 MOA to 1060 yards where my steel target was....
Have a great day.
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Base to Ogive is 2.2163
Should be close to 2.80 for OAL.
Planning on seating them longer a thou or two once powder chosen.
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I think 42.3 still looks good. It has the numbers for one thing. It appears exactly where it would be expected to, so it passes the sniff test there.
If you look at your group centers and map them, you see the orderly rise and fall of the sine wave pattern with the wave bottoming out with your 41.8, 42.1 and 42.4 loads.
I would choose a charge between 42.1 and 42.3 because 42.4 is probably on the leading edge of the next change coming up. When the weather gets hot it could throw you right up into the next big movement in the pattern.
If you look at your group centers and map them, you see the orderly rise and fall of the sine wave pattern with the wave bottoming out with your 41.8, 42.1 and 42.4 loads.
I would choose a charge between 42.1 and 42.3 because 42.4 is probably on the leading edge of the next change coming up. When the weather gets hot it could throw you right up into the next big movement in the pattern.
Let me see a charge between 42.1 and 42.3 Ill need to use my fingers for counting instead of typing.....
42.3 was my choice with the WLRPs.
Im willing to reinvestigate that area.
Ill try....
4 at 41
4 at 41.2
4 at 41.4
4 at 42.1
4 at 42.2
4 at 42.3
Ill keep current length to Ogive the same. These are short at about 2.8 COAL +/-.
Was intending to run 2.81, 2.82, 2.83 when I choose my powder charge.
24 rounds and 1 piece of butchers paper, no big loss there.
With 42.2/4064 2.8” doesn’t work.
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That is a pretty definitive statement for a gun you've never shot. What is your reasoning to back that up?
Was just curious.
Over the many years (and rifles) I loaded 308, I have always found that the best loads with what you are loading with, for myself and what I’ve seen from others, are generally between 43-44. You may find one between 42.5-43.
According to Sierra manual #5, that load has a range of 35.7 to 42.8 grs. That's using Fed brass and 210m at 2.800"
Experience
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Somehow I figured you would say that. No case to make as to correlation or causality?
42.5 of 4064 behind a 175 mk with a cci BR2 loaded .010 off the lands kills it in my FN SPR. Sub .5 MOA. That same load with a 178 Amax has won me a fair number of F-class matches.
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4 bolt guns and 2 autos with various barrel lengths and chambers, none would shoot well at 2.8” with 4064 except wwhen using 168SMK.
As far as correlation or causation goes, I don’t know why. In chambers where the SMK is able to jump a lil’bit, 175’s like to be in the neighborhood of 2.830” and 168’s at 2.800”.
My theory is that at the above respective OALs both bullets are seated to the same depth. In my opinion, since the base of the bullet is the last point of contact between the bullet and the muzzle, correctly timing bullet exit requires the 175 to be seated to a longer OAL being it is a longer bullet, about .030” longer than the 168.
To meet SAAMI specs. That doesn’t mean it’s the optimal length.
No but it shoots great in every rifle I have ever tried it in.
There is no 4064 in FGMM
There’s great and there’s optimal.
I thought it was determined several years ago by Dan Newberry that it was 4064? Here is a screenshot from that thread.
Attachments
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That particular load you screen shot is for M118 LR, not FGMM.
I don't doubt you though, I too thought that at one time FGMM was loaded with 4064.
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The 168 was, not the 175. The GM762M2 might be but that’s not what what the FGMM gold standard load is.
FGMM does 2700 FPS in a 26” barrel, what he sleuthed does 2580.
I always thought the 175 version was loaded with the equivalent of RL15.
I don't understand how you can guess somebodies optimal oal without even having the rifle.
I never hit 2700 fps in a 26" barrel with fgmm 175. My experience with the load wasn't far off from what the actual factory ammo was in my rifles.
I’m not guessing the specific optimal oal. I’m guessing the range where the oal will be optimal. It’s not gonna be 2.8”, but 2.830” or so. I’m guessing it based on the number of 308 rifles I have loaded for.
I’m getting 2700 with FGMM and 2580 with 41.7/4064 in the same barrel per my magnetospeed.
I’m getting 2700 with FGMM and 2580 with 41.7/4064 in the same barrel per my magnetospeed.
M118LR was/is loaded with Reloder 15. DODIC AA11.
MK316 was/is loaded with 4064. DODIC AB39. This is also what the Gold Medal Match 7.62 load is, and is significantly faster than the standard 308 FGMM.
308 GMM is ~2.8”, and MK316 along with 7.62 GMM is loaded to ~2.815”, so 918V has a point. I will also echo and say that my clone load of the MK316 does not like 2.8”...it tightens up the longer it comes out...
MK316 was/is loaded with 4064. DODIC AB39. This is also what the Gold Medal Match 7.62 load is, and is significantly faster than the standard 308 FGMM.
308 GMM is ~2.8”, and MK316 along with 7.62 GMM is loaded to ~2.815”, so 918V has a point. I will also echo and say that my clone load of the MK316 does not like 2.8”...it tightens up the longer it comes out...
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M118 LR has been loaded with several different powders. German Salazar wrote a well documented article about that very subject on his blog "Rifleman's Journal".
A lot of speculation in this thread. 4064 at around 42.5 is a known load amongst all the people I shoot with that ru. 175mk pr similar bullets. I was told to start looking around there when I first started reloading. You have heard differnt.
I'll load some up at 2.800 and test them at 100 next time I get a chance. Somehow I missed the entire point of 2.8 not working. Not the powder charge.
I'll load some up at 2.800 and test them at 100 next time I get a chance. Somehow I missed the entire point of 2.8 not working. Not the powder charge.
