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Rifle Scopes Help me choose a 10x scope...

BigBrother

BigBrother

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 27, 2007
687
5
New England
Okay, lot of background detail here...

I chose my first precision rig (a 700P) to somewhat approximate the M24 and M40A1 platforms- not perfectly mil spec, clearly, but something similar in terms of optics and action.

So when it came time to buy the glass, I figured Leupold all the way. My criteria was to go for MOA turrets and a mil dot reticle. Not the most advanced or efficient out there today, but the most similar to the M3 and Unertl 10Xs on those platforms.

Purchased a Mark 4 M1 3.5-10X and have had nothing but problems. Won't get into details here, but I have sworn off Leupold for life. I don't know what they sold the Army for the M3 or M3A, but it's not the quality that I'm getting now, and I'm done with them. It's a shame, because I actually found the glass quite clear and the reticle nice and crisp, but the other hassles and problems drove it far over the edge.

So, here was my train of thought in going for a replacement..

1. I didn't like the bulk or heft of 50mm bells on the 700P, so I wanted to keep it at 40 or 42mm MAX.

2. Just don't like Nightforce. Wish I did, as I know they're great, but I can't stand the scalloping on the knobs, the reticle designs, etc. But I do recall the knobs having wider/more solid clicks than anything I've tried.

3. Once looked through a Swarovski that blew my mind. Optics unlike anything I'd ever seen. They don't seem to make anything tactical though- no mil dot, no MOA turrets, etc.

4. I figured I'd go USO ST-10. Really, really thought this would be the one. But I just got back from a big shoot with a number of USOs, and I just couldn't bring myself to like them. I know they're perennial favorites on here, but I also now see why scopes can be such a subjective thing. All the knobs (save the Erek) were as mushy as my Leupold, the glass wasn't as clear as I'd been expecting, and their mil dot reticle is rather thick and heavy- looked like, believe it or not, my friend's Barska. The reticle on my Leupold is much sharper and crisper. I was really hoping to go for this one, but I just don't think it's meant to be. Just wasn't impressed.

5. S&B. I saw they have a 10x42, which looked interesting, but I can't get the knobs in MOA. I *know* what you're thinking- just go Mil/Mil dot, but I really, truly do want MOA knobs to learn on- I'm into the platforms mentioned (M24 and M40A1) and want to learn up on a similar system and reticle. I'm saving a *really* high end scope in mil/mil or moa/moa for later on with a .338 or other custom rig.

So that's about it. I'm pretty much out of options and wanted to see what suggestions you guys might have. Quick summary: Leupold- optics and reticle good, customer service, knob tracking, etc., suck. Nightforce- can't get over all the bad I don't like, but solid clicks. USO- optics, reticle, and knobs not as good as I'd hoped, at least in the 10x range. Swarovksi- AMAZING glass, no reticle and knob options. S&B- haven't handled in person, but great rep. But no MOA knobs.

I really appreciate your help. To avoid two responses I know I'm likely to get, I'll say this- 1. I'm being picky. Fully aware of it. "Just suck it up and get ...X..." won't help me much in this case. 2. Mismatched reticle and knob is inefficient and outdated. Fully aware of that as well. But I truly do want a mil dot reticle and MOA knobs to match the two military platforms.

Thanks a lot everybody. I hope you can help me out!!
-BB
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

I have a Nikon Monarch, 42mm, 2.5x - 10x, mildot reticle.
At 10x the mildots are correct.
I added a sunshade and the taller turrets/knobs.

Not expensive ($400 plus another $100 for the shade and knobs)

it is working well for me at this time...

You may want to check out the Nikons. Especially the Monarch Gold.

I also like the Horus 'christmas tree' reticles. You don't do a lot of knob twisting once you get an accurate 100 yard zero.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Hey there is nothing wrong with being a little picky, ultimately you are the only one that needs to be satisfied with your choice.

My vote goes for a USO. I have a SN-3 1.8-10x37mm scope an love it(its available in 44 mm objective as well). There mildot reticle has worked well for me so far.
Another reticle you might want to consider is the GAP-MIL reticle USO offers, I have it in my spotter and the lines are thinnner that the SN3's mildot, and its a mil reticle which helps in adjustments at the range when a buddy is spotting for me.
I am also looking into getting an ST-10 with the alot of the same features for my 40x as well, but that is a little bit down the road for now.
Good luck with your decision.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

IOR makes a 10x42.

I have the 16x version with mildot ret and MOA knobs. The glass is really impressive, it tracks correctly, steel tube, and is just plain simple.

Not a bad price point either...
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ST-10 is by far the best you can get. Anything less, is well, less.
</div></div>

Agreed. If you didn't like the mildot you looked through they have other reticles (if you're going moa/moa that wouldn't be your best choice anyway). You say your Leupy's mildot was sharper and clearer-I'd imagine you didn't adjust the diopter on someone else's scope to your eyeball did you?
My ST10 with the 37mm ERGO is clearer and brighter than my SN3 was, may I ask if the ST10 you looked through was a fixed objective or adjustable, because if you were looking close and its a fixed, that would affect your clarity concerns.....
I have M3 turrets on mine and they are very positive audible clicks.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

SB, 10x42, P3.

Learning Mils will take you five, maybe six minutes of independent study.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

I haven't had to really learn shit. I set my calculator to give me my dope in mils, then just dial to what my matching reticle says.

Caveman easy.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't had to really learn shit. I set my calculator to give me my dope in mils</div></div>That's cheating. If it took the military twenty-seven years, it just can't be that easy.
laugh.gif
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Bigbrother,

So you want a 10x power scope or a variable that tops out @ 10X. You want one that has mismatched reticle/turrets that is Mil/MOA. You want one with an objective smaller than 50MM. So......Leupold is out, as is USO, S&B, and Nightforce, for various reasons.

That leaves:

IOR 10x42MM (Liberty Optics has them in Mil/MOA)

IOR 2.5-10x42MM (Liberty Optics has them on sale in Mil/MOA)

Nikon Monarch X 2.5-10x44mm Mildot w/Mil/MOA

Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x42MM Model 65-2164T (bigger than 10x, but it is Mil/MOA)

SWFA SS 10x42

On the used market:

Falcon Optics 10x42MM (I have one in Mil/MOA that I'm willing to sell PM me if your interested)

Or if your can find one the long discontinued Baush & Lomb 10x Tactical. This scope was designed for and marketed to the US Military, and they show up every once in a blue moon. Here's a review of this scope: B&L 10x Tactical

That's the universe that I can think of that is left to you. Whether the above choices will fit your needs in terms of optical clarity, and firm click adjustments, is up your discerning eyes and fingers.

Best of luck,

Bob

 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't had to really learn shit. I set my calculator to give me my dope in mils</div></div>That's cheating. If it took the military twenty-seven years, it just can't be that easy.
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Work smarter not harder...
grin.gif
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Guys, phenomenal responses. Thank you so much, and I will be doing some research!!!
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thunderchicken</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IOR makes a 10x42.

I have the 16x version with mildot ret and MOA knobs. The glass is really impressive, it tracks correctly, steel tube, and is just plain simple.

Not a bad price point either...


</div></div>

Hey Thunder, I can't seem to find these in a plain mildot reticle. Sure they still have it?
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Bigbrother,

That would be a NO to standard mildots on the IOR. They use the MP8 reticle, which is Mil based, but uses hashes instead of Dots. Works the same as Mildots, only more better.

Shoot you are a picky lad, but buying what you like is OK. Just remember your universe of choices is getting smaller all the time....

Bob
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Yep, totally get it. And fully aware
smile.gif
. My rationale, in case you even care, is pretty simple- I plan on buying many firearms throughout my life, and the purpose of this first build is not to be the end all ideal precision rig, it's to capture this era in military sniper rifles (~1980-2000). That's the system I want to get comfortable with at first. So I'm not quite at the 3K+ for a perfect M24 or M40 reproduction build, but I do want something very close. That's about it. It does suck that Leupold is such crap, btw. Would have made this much easier. I do wonder if you can actually get a real M3A...
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

How about the MST 100? I dont own one but I have seen these at USO. The clicks are very positive, no mush. Mildot reticle and moa adjustments. I think these are far superior to a Leupold.
They would fit an 80's era M40a1.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Bigbrother,

No, I do get what your trying to do, and I admire it. But Leupold's is what the Big Green Machine put on the M24's, and USO MST100's is what is on repo type USMC M40A's.

By dismissing the only true GI issued type scopes, your painting your repo-build into a corner.

Why not just bite the bullet and find a Leupold 10x M3, with a build Prefix L through Z (1980-1992)or a Build suffix A-H (1992-2000), and your GTG. Anything Leupold made prior to 2000 is pretty solid. And you will be in spec's with your repo.

Best of luck,

Bob
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Interesting stuff. Might have a look. Oh and re: MST-100, it's way beyond my price range. I'm saving my 3K scope for something beautiful like an S&B PM or Premier. Props to USO for their MST-100 for what it's supposed to be, but I don't need the exact replica that badly
wink.gif
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Not ghetto, but to adjustable abjective. If you don't want an ST10 because the clarity was an issue, this ain't the scope for you. The one's I've had were a bit fuzzy under 150yds.

All in all I think you question and line of reasoning in your responses is very interesting. Good luck with your search.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

I have had the same thoughts, tried all the others,but I am buying nothing but USO for the rest of my Tac: rifles ST-10 is by far the best deal going!!!! the final thing that sold me on the USO's/ was I was out shooting about a month ago, finally found a 1000yd range, so I did some shooting all the wayout to a 1000, dialed the EREK in, and took my shots, dialed back down to my 100yd zero, and put the next bullet through the same hole, now that is tracking!!! Now I agree with the optic's thing. have had IOR's that blew the USO out of the water to me, but you just can not beat knowing you can have all of your issues fixed here in the USA, in a not to bad of a wait time, if was ever to have a issue. Plus you can have it made the way you want it. seems easy to me.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Yeah, I know what you mean. The pendulum swings back toward USO
smile.gif
. I think either that at this point or the Nikons - they look interesting. And I hear ya sobrbiker on the adjustable parallax- didn't catch that before. More to come as I narrow down.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Get in touch with Scott at Liberty Optics.

I bought my 16x42 new from him only a year ago, and it is mildot not MP8.

I dont know if he can get you one in mildot, but he might...
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Nikon Monarch X in 2.5x10x44 is looking more and more like the winner. Oh and to anyone still reading this- the 40mm or under requirement isn't that strict anymore- I realized it's more the total size that counts, so as long as its under 2" I'm good- it's the 2.3" and bigger of the 50mms that starts to get too big and bulky for this build.

Thanks
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Oh BTW, to address some of you who were wondering what I meant by the Leupold mildot reticle looking crisper than the USO, I found some good reference shots on the "through the scope" thread on here.

The USO ST-10 basically looked like this:

CamoSavage31109004.jpg


Whereas the Leupold (the FFP models) look like this (ignore the difference in magnification, my 3.5-10x looks this thin at 10x as well):

28khh6r.jpg


See what I mean? It's a difference between a "line with bumps" look versus a "dots on a string" look, which I find much easier to both range with and place on very small targets.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

I recently picked up an SFWA SS 10x42 and it's really a solid option. I would say it falls a bit between the two pictures you show, so probably not a perfect match for you, but a solid piece, and reasonably priced at around $300 or so.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">leupold M3 10X40 </div></div>

Rong, after you fill out your profile, you need to read the OP's post. He's had problems with Leupy and they are not in the running (wise move, too-my 16X SS gives nothing up to my 16XMK4).
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Still looking like Nikon. Shame they don't offer an FFP if I'm already getting a variable, but meh- if that's the only drawback, I can live with it!
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Did I miss the reason you aren't considering the 3-9 SS? It does have FFP, proper .1 Mil clicks (really, you'll thank us) and better glass than the fixed models. Nothing really competes in that price range.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Hmm. Interesting what you say about the glass. I've only looked through a Super Sniper twice- the first time and the last
smile.gif
I thought the optics were horrible. Looked like Eastern European glass from the 70s. And I had others there that day (including my Leupy) to compare. Thoughts?

Oh and the price is not that big an issue- I'd go up to $1500 and possibly more if I could find just what I wanted. Problem is I'm picky as hell.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Yeah, I haven’t seen one yet but those who have say the glass is <span style="font-weight: bold">WAY</span> better than the glass in the fixed SS’s. I’m expecting as good or better than your standard Lupy. I’ll see when it gets here.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

I have a variable SS 3-9x42 and I am quite happy with it. The glass is quite good. About as good as you will see coming out of Japan this side of March scopes. Mechanically, the scope has been absolutely flawless.

Another thing you should keep in ind is that SWFA is going to have a limited number of 10x42HD Super Sniper scopes at some point which improved glass.

ILya
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

Well, Big Brother, you are a little contradictory. I'm going to suggest the ST-10 that you didn't like.

First, you complained about the mil dot reticle, which is a mil standard design. You like MOA, so why not pick the really excellent MOA Type 1 thin reticle for 10x (I did).

Next, you say the image is not sharp. So get an ST-10 with the ERGO objective focus. The fixed ST-10 comes focused at 200 or 300 yards and will be fuzzy at shorter distances.

You say the EREK is mushy, and some can be if the lube is not properly worked in.

So, my recommendation is the ST-10 10x37mm with EREK, ERGO, and Type 1 MOA reticle, and make sure they work the lube for you. Of course, you're going with 0.25 or 0.5 MOA click knobs.
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...some can be if the lube is not properly worked in.</div></div>Why is that?
 
Re: Help me choose a 10x scope...

A number of scopes with mushy clicks have been reported on SH and the culprit is the lube application (examples: Super Sniper, Premiere Heritage, USO).
 
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