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Rifle Scopes Help me choose my first scope

Photobug

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 1, 2021
118
23
Jackson, WY
I am getting back to shooting after a few decades off (4 decades) I have never shot a scoped rifle and want to buy my first scope for my CZ 452. My plan is to buy a scope for this gun to help me get used to scope shooting. My plan is to buy get into long distance shooting sometime soon.

I have a head full of ideas on what I would want to shoot for my long distance rifle, Milrad retical and FFP. I am looking for any input on what I should look for in a scope for my CZ that would help me in the future when I step up in caliber?
 
You havent shot a gun in 40 years? .... and you chose 2021 in the ammopocalypse to learn how to shoot a scoped rifle? Wow, this is a true underdog story.... zero? Never shot a buddies .22 with a scope? Im rooting for ya, their gonna wanna know some things, like your budget, the distances you plan to shoot. You sir have just become a tiny fish in a very big pond. Interesting
 
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You havent shot a gun in 40 years? .... and you chose 2021 in the ammopocalypse to learn how to shoot a scoped rifle? Wow, this is a true underdog story.... zero? Never shot a buddies .22 with a scope? Im rooting for ya, their gonna wanna know some things, like your budget, the distances you plan to shoot. You sir have just become a tiny fish in a very big pond. Interesting
Just making up for lost time. The closest thing I have ever shot to a scope is the red dot sight on my S&W 15-22. I did shoot a whole lot as a kid, and fell right back into it. In the last five months my gun collection went from 1 to 6, and I am shooting twice a week, mostly .22 because that is what I can get and afford. I have a lever action .22 coming tomorrow for 50 yards and closer open sight shooting. What I would want from a scope would be for 100 yards and beyond. I know distances with .22 becomes limited, so I figure out to 200 yards with a .22. It's a $500 gun, what can I get for $500 or $1000 in optics?

Let's say I plan to buy a Tikka Tac A1 down the road. Which scope on a .22 would emulate the scope I would put on a sniper rifle? I feel any scope will allow me to shoot better beyond 50 yards but want to learn on a scope that would translate well to a scope on a long range rifle.
 
Around here, you're gonna get mostly recommendations for MIL scopes. Agreed with @bulldozer3 on the parallax, and I honestly can't see why anyone would want a scope with capped turrets anymore, but I'm sure someone somewhere has a reason. If you're wanting to take your 22 out to 100+ yds, you want exposed turrets (elevation at a minimum) and a zero stop is awful nice too. The Mil vs MOA conversation mostly comes down to who you shoot with; most folks around here are plugged into the PRS world which has strongly trended towards Mil. Either will work.

Someone on here once said that everyone will recommend what they have, and that's hard to argue with haha; I like my Vortex Viper PST Gen2 5-25x with the EBR-7C reticle, and those can be found here for <$1k pretty regularly, rings included. There's a lot of Bushnell deals floating around, below is a link to a similar thread where someone recommended the DMR II 3.5-21x and the XRS II 4.5-30x.

 
Oh, I actually meant to mention, you absolutely want FFP. SFP is nice for hunting, but 22LR at 100+ yards is deep into precision rifle territory. You can spot misses with a FFP or a SFP, but only a FFP will let you measure the miss in the reticle and apply a precise correction for your follow-up. You asked what would be appropriate for a "sniper rifle," and that means FFP.
 
Vortex PST II 5-25 for under $1k, but even better is Burris XTR III 5.5-30 which can be had used around $1300, best glass and features I’ve seen at this price. Have one on my rimfire trainer and love it, has many features like my alpha glass at a fraction of the cost.
 
Around here, you're gonna get mostly recommendations for MIL scopes. Agreed with @bulldozer3 on the parallax, and I honestly can't see why anyone would want a scope with capped turrets anymore, but I'm sure someone somewhere has a reason. If you're wanting to take your 22 out to 100+ yds, you want exposed turrets (elevation at a minimum) and a zero stop is awful nice too. The Mil vs MOA conversation mostly comes down to who you shoot with; most folks around here are plugged into the PRS world which has strongly trended towards Mil. Either will work.


Thanks that is the exact kind of info I was looking for. Trying to figure all the details out of calibers, ballistics, scopes, etc etc is like trying to take a sip from a fire hose. Your post verified the choices i had made with the limited amount of info I have.

Since I plan on eventually moving up to a more appropriate rifle once I know ammo is no longer scarce, an overkill scope on a .22 can then migrate to that gun, or I can match the scope on the larger calibered gun and have the same scope whether I am shooting rimfire or centerfire.
 
Oh, I actually meant to mention, you absolutely want FFP. SFP is nice for hunting, but 22LR at 100+ yards is deep into precision rifle territory. You can spot misses with a FFP or a SFP, but only a FFP will let you measure the miss in the reticle and apply a precise correction for your follow-up. You asked what would be appropriate for a "sniper rifle," and that means FFP.

That is what i was planning on is a FFP for that reason. While we are at it, please clarify 'measure the miss with FFP.' Will the miss shop up on the xmas tree and you then know how much to dial in changes to elevation and windage? Is the xmas tree ever used as a way to place the shot quickly along the xmas tree to adjust for elevation and windage?
 
That is what i was planning on is a FFP for that reason. While we are at it, please clarify 'measure the miss with FFP.' Will the miss shop up on the xmas tree and you then know how much to dial in changes to elevation and windage? Is the xmas tree ever used as a way to place the shot quickly along the xmas tree to adjust for elevation and windage?
So, the answer to your question is a little complex, but I’ll provide a short version and give you a link to a longer version. When you look through a FFP reticle, particularly one with 0.2 to 0.5 mil marks on the vertical and horizontal stadia, everything you see can be measured in mils (roughly). A Coke can, the turkey walking across your firing lane, and your target itself will all take up a certain amount of “space” in mils, and if you hold your crosshairs over it, you can use the hashes to measure them. This measurement is an ANGULAR measurement, not an inches or cm measurement, so an object will take up more mils the closer it is.

When you shoot, the most important thing to immediately do is identify where your shot went. A 22 has virtually no recoil, so you don’t have to fight to reestablish your sight picture, just hold steady and watch for the bullet impact. There are multiple ways to skin the cat from there, but my understanding is that the best way is to put your crosshairs back where they were when you shot, see how far the point of impact (“POI”) was from the center of the target in your reticle, then adjust your point of aim (“POA”) by that amount and fire again. This adjustment is usually a hold, not a dial, although there are reasons I won’t go into here that you might choose to dial instead. Make sense?

Here’s a thread giving advice about wind, but it contains info about this measure-and-adjust strategy:
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/here’s-what-you-really-need-to-know-about-wind-at-a-match.7030123/#post-8875856

PS: If you want a system where you hop one scope to another gun, I recommend a Pic rail mounting system, so you only have to level the reticle in the rings once. You also probably want a cheek riser to ensure you have a good cheek weld and a clean sight picture at the same time.
 
PS: If you want a system where you hop one scope to another gun, I recommend a Pic rail mounting system, so you only have to level the reticle in the rings once. You also probably want a cheek riser to ensure you have a good cheek weld and a clean sight picture at the same time.

Thanks that is the plan, I am also finishing building an AR15, on which I will put an LVPO but may add a better scope to or put my .22 scope on to try reaching out further with so a pic rail scope mount is part of the plan. I also have a scope mounting kit on hand.
 
Also, just saw this, this is my exact scope and it comes with good-quality rings:

 
Also, just saw this, this is my exact scope and it comes with good-quality rings:

Looks good just to confirm Mrad is the same as MIL?
 
Correct, both are shorthand for milliradian. Looks like somebody snapped that scope up, but another will be posted in a week or two at a similar price point. Make sure when you’re checking out deals that you account for the value of accessories you want that it has, and the cost of those it doesn’t. The big one for scopes is rings, those’ll run you $100-200 for a good pair, but most scope sales on here include them.

If a scope comes with accessories you don’t want, then basically ignore them, they’re often not worth the trouble of reselling piecemeal.
 
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Correct, both are shorthand for milliradian. Looks like somebody snapped that scope up, but another will be posted in a week or two at a similar price point.
Yep saw that. I was cooking breakfast and saw your posting on my phone and by the time I got back to my computer and found out Mrad is MIL, it was snatched up. I will keep an eye out as that is the quality and pricepoint I would like.

Can you suggest an appropriate PIC scope mount for when I find the right scope?
 
Yep saw that. I was cooking breakfast and saw your posting on my phone and by the time I got back to my computer and found out Mrad is MIL, it was snatched up. I will keep an eye out as that is the quality and pricepoint I would like.

Can you suggest an appropriate PIC scope mount for when I find the right scope?
What is your rifle’s action?
 

I’d get a 25 MOA rail, Extended or not is up to you. Note the difference in dovetails between CZ452/453 American and everything else.

I found this. If I see this correctly it allows me to add a Pic rail onto my CZ with 25 MOA built in. I can then easily attach a one piece scope mount to the CZ.


I went to my local gun shop and they had Vortex so I looked at the Diamond Back at $399 the same setup at 5-25x. I could easily see the difference in glass between it and the $1100 Viper. I am now leaning between Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25 and a Viper PST. The Strike Eagle can be had in Mrad with the EBR 7C reticle. For the Viper with the EBR-7C reticle in the Viper can be had for $1000. The older style reticle is only $830. Would I notice the difference between the two reticles?

 
Would I notice the difference between the two reticles?

In my personal opinion, not really. The biggest differences for my purposes are the expanded illumination (EBR-7C is the whole tree, -2C is just the vertical and horizontal stadia) and the center aiming dot. I like the dot for shooting groups, but it’s not necessary for shooting PRS-style steel, and many prefer open crosshairs like the -2C. I didn’t find the illumination on the -2C limiting me either, and I think as a starter scope it would serve you very well. If at some point you determined you wanted to switch, you can just sell your -2C for probably the same price you bought it.

I’d suggest to you that you buy your scope here; they pop up regularly, especially the Vipers, and you can get a used scope in great shape plus rings for less total than your LGS prices that you listed, and Vortex will honor warranty claims even if you bought it used. Good rings will run you $150 or so (Seekins/Vortex PMR, Nightforce, Leupold, ARC M10’s, etc), so make sure you think about that added cost when buying new. The PX here typically has a Viper plus rings pop up once a week or so for about $8-900.
 
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Also, CameraLand has a sale today. I haven’t worked with them but they have a great reputation on the Hide. See this thread, and give them a call:

 
If you want a vortex optic give Scott at liberty optics a call. He's the guy to see about vortex scopes. Doug at Cameralandny is a fantastic guy. Live very close to the store and have stopped in a bunch of times. They always are running sales. They will certainly have a scope that fits your needs.
 
If you want a vortex optic give Scott at liberty optics a call. He's the guy to see about vortex scopes. Doug at Cameralandny is a fantastic guy. Live very close to the store and have stopped in a bunch of times. They always are running sales. They will certainly have a scope that fits your needs.

I am not set on Vortex, I just already own two of their products and is the only one I 'almost' understand. Going from one end of the line to the other then the variations between the lines.... at leat I have an idea of which models to look for in Vortex. I have come up with the impression the Razor is well respected as is the Viper line. I have been reading not the greatest reviews of the Chinese made Vectors.

If someone suggest a different or better choice than the viper line I would consider those as well,
 
I found a showroom demo Viper PST 5-25 Mrad for $850. It is on the way as is the 25 MOA extended rail.

Now I need to choose a scope mount. It's first and primary job will be on the CZ .22lr. It may get moved to an AR on occasion and possibly move up to a .308 or 6.5 CM in the future. I see cantilevered mounts listed for ARs don't think my .22 needs or wants that. I am looking for a mount that will be equivalent quality for this scope.
 
How set are you on a one-piece mount? Because these are FS:

I think the one piece mount will make it easier to move the scope when I choose to do so. I am willing to spend an extra $100 or so if I end up with a more appropriate mount. If these Vortex will work okay I will go with them. Would low or medium be better?
 
I’d go with Medium, CZ 452/455’s tend to have bolt clearance issues. As for moving the scope, it’s the same number of screws as many one-piece mounts, just four. You don’t loosen the scope ring screws, just the rail clamp screws, so the rings stay locked onto the scope in the same spot when you move it.

Also, I’d pick up a decent anti-cant device, there’s a few good bubble levels out there for under $50.
 
I also can’t revommend any one-piece mounts other than Spuhr, just cause I don’t use them and that’s all I ever hear about. Plenty of others on here could recommend a solid one, I’m sure.
 
I’d go with Medium, CZ 452/455’s tend to have bolt clearance issues. As for moving the scope, it’s the same number of screws as many one-piece mounts, just four. You don’t loosen the scope ring screws, just the rail clamp screws, so the rings stay locked onto the scope in the same spot when you move it.

Also, I’d pick up a decent anti-cant device, there’s a few good bubble levels out there for under $50.
Thanks for all your help, all the parts are on order.