Help me diagnose one of my shooting flaws

[Gregor.Samsa]

My shooting is improving, but I’ve got a long way to go. I’ve been noticing that the majority of my shots impact slightly yo the right of my POI. I’m trying to be conscientious about remaining square behind the rifle, loading the bipod as well as pressing the trigger and releasing it after impact. I’m sure the issue lies within the fundamentals but having a hard time diagnosing this. I’ll try to post up a pic from today’s range session tomorrow. Thanks

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

If you're right handed and jerking the trigger, it could cause you to miss right.

If you can, have someone video you while shooting and post it up.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

Spindrift yo!

 

[1moaoff]

The first question i would ask, is your zero solid?
Trigger slap
Not square or driving rifle straight

 

[ma smith]

Just wante to add there is/can also be some positional bias in your setup...

 

[Baron23]

My shooting is improving, but I’ve got a long way to go. I’ve been noticing that the majority of my shots impact slightly yo the right of my POI. I’m trying to be conscientious about remaining square behind the rifle, loading the bipod as well as pressing the trigger and releasing it after impact. I’m sure the issue lies within the fundamentals but having a hard time diagnosing this. I’ll try to post up a pic from today’s range session tomorrow. Thanks

My first thought was trigger...I'm right handed. If I place my finger pad is too deep on the trigger I tend to pull it a bit to the right. If I'm too far to the end of my finger, then I will tend to push it to the left a bit and pull the shot to the right.

Just a thought....like yourself, I'm def no expert but this is what I have found to be true with me and finger placement on the trigger.

Note: I have small hands and so that may make this more significant for me than others.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I mean, if it’s the *majority* of your shots, is that not potentially a zero issue?

 

[Dthomas3523]

My first thought was trigger...I'm right handed. If I place my finger pad is too deep on the trigger I tend to pull it a bit to the right. If I'm too far to the end of my finger, then I will tend to push it to the left a bit and pull the shot to the right.

Just a thought....like yourself, I'm def no expert but this is what I have found to be true with me and finger placement on the trigger.

Note: I have small hands and so that may make this more significant for me than others.

This is why a 90deg trigger finger is much more efficient than a jointed pull. It’s almost impossible not to press straight back when you make a 90deg.

 

[Baron23]

This is why a 90deg trigger finger is much more efficient than a jointed pull. It’s almost impossible not to press straight back when you make a 90deg.

Yeah, and I really, really try to do this. Now, just to confirm...we are talking about bending at the second joint of the trigger finger and making movement from that joint.....right? This what I attempt to do on a consistent basis but I do fall short.

But even so, with my smallish hands/fingers, I have found that I still need to be careful of where on the finger pad I place the on the trigger shoe. I find if not in pretty much the middle of my last finger pad, then I do push/pull the gun just a tiny bit and I'm really working on eliminating that altogether.

Sadly, I'm self-taught this is the blind leading the blind. YouTube, articles, pictures on line, etc. I am scheduled for a Frank/Marc clinic in Sep in PA and am really looking forward to some direct observation of my fundamentals and corrective instruction. If I get nothing else out of the clinic, if they can straighten out my fundamentals I will consider the clinic a success.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Yeah, and I really, really try to do this. Now, just to confirm...we are talking about bending at the second joint of the trigger finger and making movement from that joint.....right? This what I attempt to do on a consistent basis but I do fall short.

But even so, with my smallish hands/fingers, I have found that I still need to be careful of where on the finger pad I place the on the trigger shoe. I find if not in pretty much the middle of my last finger pad, then I do push/pull the gun just a tiny bit and I'm really working on eliminating that altogether.

Sadly, I'm self-taught this is the blind leading the blind. YouTube, articles, pictures on line, etc. I am scheduled for a Frank/Marc clinic in Sep in PA and am really looking forward to some direct observation of my fundamentals and corrective instruction. If I get nothing else out of the clinic, if they can straighten out my fundamentals I will consider the clinic a success.

Thanks for the reply.

Red arrow is part of pad that goes on trigger.

With practice you can do it on any stock regardless of how close the grip is. Even if you have to get up on your fingertips. The trigger press is much more important than the “grip.”

 

[Baron23]

Red arrow is part of pad that goes on trigger.

hahaha...was there supposed to be a picture?

 

[Dthomas3523]

hahaha...was there supposed to be a picture?

Check now.

 

[Baron23]

Check now.

Thank you...and yes, this is exactly what I'm attempting to do, both how to bend my finger and where to place on the finger pad.

And indeed I do need to use a bit of finger tips of the trigger hand on the grip....less with the chassis gun than the HS stocked gun...to be able to get that 90 degree and middle of the finger pad. If I slip back a bit on the grip and don't notice, then I'm not completely at 90 degrees and I slip toward the tip of my finger and pull the shot just a bit. Not a lot. Got rid of that, but still there is room for improvement (yes, I'm an OCD perfectionist LOL)

Again, some face to face instruction will be invaluable.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Cheers

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

I mean, if it’s the *majority* of your shots, is that not potentially a zero issue?

it certainly could be. I know that at 100 I seem to be more centered.I was playing with windage but the wind yesterday was faily mild but kept switching direction. thank you

 

[Dthomas3523]

Thank you...and yes, this is exactly what I'm attempting to do, both how to bend my finger and where to place on the finger pad.

And indeed I do need to use a bit of finger tips of the trigger hand on the grip....less with the chassis gun than the HS stocked gun...to be able to get that 90 degree and middle of the finger pad. If I slip back a bit on the grip and don't notice, then I'm not completely at 90 degrees and I slip toward the tip of my finger and pull the shot just a bit. Not a lot. Got rid of that, but still there is room for improvement (yes, I'm an OCD perfectionist LOL)

Again, some face to face instruction will be invaluable.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Cheers

Most build the grip first and then the trigger press.

Build the 90deg first, and then let your fingers lay where they end up.

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

The first question i would ask, is your zero solid?
Trigger slap
Not square or driving rifle straight

I think my zero is GTG. I noticed this shooting my other rifle as well the other day so I think it has something to do with my form rather than equipment. thanks

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

Thank you...and yes, this is exactly what I'm attempting to do, both how to bend my finger and where to place on the finger pad.

And indeed I do need to use a bit of finger tips of the trigger hand on the grip....less with the chassis gun than the HS stocked gun...to be able to get that 90 degree and middle of the finger pad. If I slip back a bit on the grip and don't notice, then I'm not completely at 90 degrees and I slip toward the tip of my finger and pull the shot just a bit. Not a lot. Got rid of that, but still there is room for improvement (yes, I'm an OCD perfectionist LOL)

Again, some face to face instruction will be invaluable.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Cheers

I started a threda the other day on other stocks / chassis that postion the grip closer tot he trigger. I love my manners stock but i realize that my palm is way forward on the grip when forming the 90 degree bend.I need to slow down and focus more btween shots me thinks. thankyou all for the advice. I'll retest my zero next time I'm out too.

 

[Baron23]

I started a threda the other day on other stocks / chassis that postion the grip closer tot he trigger. I love my manners stock but i realize that my palm is way forward on the grip when forming the 90 degree bend.I need to slow down and focus more btween shots me thinks. thankyou all for the advice. I'll retest my zero next time I'm out too.

Would something like this help"

Universal Grip – Large Hands – Store – God'a Grip

Large Hands - Wide Stock Rifle

godagrip.com

I bought this and put it on my J Allen chassis but sadly I need a bit more adjustment than this can give me....hence Tyler Kemp at MK Machining has one of my J Allens and is making a more vertical (closer to trigger shoe) grip skin.

Just something to think about.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Red arrow is part of pad that goes on trigger.

With practice you can do it on any stock regardless of how close the grip is. Even if you have to get up on your fingertips. The trigger press is much more important than the “grip.”

View attachment 7574830

Looks like you're in a 3rd world prison.

 

[acudaowner]

I would suggest using your smart phone to record you shooting a few taking note verbally when you think you did everything correct or when something felt off review the video looking for all the things mentioned I really never knew I tapped the trigger before squeezing it till someone showed me the video of me doing it I have also seen on a few trips when I use video to review what I did and if it was good or bad that become clearer when played back . good luck you can do it .

 

[Shootin Stuff]

Does your POI diverge further to the right with an increase of distance or is it consistent, ie always 2 inches right at all distances?

Was there wind around on the day you were shooting?

You could always bias your zero slightly to the left in order to minimise the overall error.
.2 of a mil left at 100 is smaller than .2 to the right at 1,000. It's not ideal, but could be a work around.

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

Does your POI diverge further to the right with an increase of distance or is it consistent, ie always 2 inches right at all distances?

Was there wind around on the day you were shooting?

You could always bias your zero slightly to the left in order to minimise the overall error.
.2 of a mil left at 100 is smaller than .2 to the right at 1,000. It's not ideal, but could be a work around.

Seems to be exponentia with distances

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

You can see it here. Shot starting at 1000
Down to 200

 

[sleeplz]

Lots of good info in here. Biggest help for me, is mixing dummy rounds with live rounds in my mag. I’d notice huge flaws when I’d hear a click with no bang and huge reticle movement.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I spent a couple days down in Texas pre-covid working with Sean Little on trigger work (in 25 mph, 40 degree rainy weather, no less) and it changed everything. When you break it down to forces acting on the rifle, it becomes pretty clear. Thumb placement (and management) is another critical component. I used to place it along the right side of the stock. During training it became clear that that placement was causing a slight POI shift to the left.

Why? When you think about it, your thumb naturally wants to oppose your fingers - that whole opposable thumbs evolution theory. If your thumb is on one side or the other of your stock, it's naturally going to move toward your finger and push the stock in that direction in the process. During training, Sean had me move my thumb to the top of the stock and the shift simply went away. Since you have support through your rear bag that inhibits downward movement, any pressure from your thumb causes insignificant shift. Some people now are floating their thumb (it doesn't feel right to me).

 

[Shootin Stuff]

You can see it here. Shot starting at 1000
Down to 200

If I am reading your sticky notes correctly there were several impacts left of/on centreline at 800 as well as several right and further right at 500 and 600. If it were an offset zero I would expect to see a much clearer trend.

My guess is shooter induced, what is your rifle chambered as? What was wind like?

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

If I am reading your sticky notes correctly there were several impacts left of/on centreline at 800 as well as several right and further right at 500 and 600. If it were an offset zero I would expect to see a much clearer trend.

My guess is shooter induced, what is your rifle chambered as? What was wind like?

6.5cm. The wind was switching directions quite a bit that day. I’ve noticed my impacts to the right on other rifles as well so I’m not sure if it’s necessarily a scope zero or wind age issue. Thanks

 

[Naaman]

Red arrow is part of pad that goes on trigger.

With practice you can do it on any stock regardless of how close the grip is. Even if you have to get up on your fingertips. The trigger press is much more important than the “grip.”

If trigger pull is OP's issue, this is probably the most important consideration: instead of wrapping the thumb around the grip, place it along the side with the rest of the hand, which may allow for better reach with the trigger finger.