Help me get started with 223 AR loading

[EchoDeltaSierra]

Good morning hive mind. I’m working on a little fun winter reloading project. I currently load 6.5CR and 300WM and have loaded thousands of rounds in the past year. That said, I’m not experienced with anything but precision reloading.

Recently I installed a PST 2-10 on my trusty AR-15 that has been sitting in the safe for about two years, and now I’m really intrigued about what could be done out to 600y.

I have dies and bullets order. I’m undecided on powder to use. I have a 1-8 twist 16” barre and am suppressed.

Is there any better choices than Varget or CFE-223 for powder? I’d be satisfied with 1-2 moa at 600y with either 55, 68, or 75 grain pills.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I use IMR 4064 for mine. Mainly because I use 4064 in my 308 as well. I don't like keeping track of a bunch of powders.

I use 23gr of 4064 with a 68gr hornady BTHP match bullet. Most 55gr or lighter is going to be running out of steam by 600. That's been my experience anyway, but I'm close to sea level and the atmospherics are not ideal where I live. I have an odin works 18 inch DMR profile barrel. 1:8 twist as well.

 

[TAMU20]

I use Varget in mine with Hornady 75 gr BTHP Match. I’m right around 24gr of varget still working out the load but it’s looking good. I chose varget for the same reason as above, I use varget in my 308.

 

[Steel head]

23-24 grains of 8208XBR with a 75/77 bullet is hard to beat.
I’m still a fan of W748 and 69smk’s as well.

cfe223 is a pretty decent powder for 55-77 grain bullets as well.

I like varget for bolt gun 223.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

Is there one that seems to get better velocities from 16” barrels? I believe that would tend to be something on the hotter side, correct?

 

[Steel head]

Is there one that seems to get better velocities from 16” barrels? I believe that would tend to be something on the hotter side, correct?

I wouldn’t chase speed.
another 50-100 FPS won’t make a damn bit of difference especially if it’s beating the crap out of your AR or blowing primers when it gets warm.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

I wouldn’t chase speed.
another 50-100 FPS won’t make a damn bit of difference especially if it’s beating the crap out of your AR or blowing primers when it gets warm.

?

I’ve chased speed to the very edges of my bolt action calibers. With all the moving parts and gas, I am really being mindful of this and keeping my expectations set appropriately.

 

[mensajd]

You can use all your precision loading techniques for .223 AR loads except that instead of bumping back shoulders ~0.001” inch (for bolt guns) bump the shoulders back ~0.003. Definitely get a brass catcher - some attach to a rail while others use a velcro strip that wraps around the float tube.

 

[TAMU20]

Is there one that seems to get better velocities from 16” barrels? I believe that would tend to be something on the hotter side, correct?

I was getting close to 2500 FPS out of my 16” barrel

 

[teele1]

plenty of neck tension

 

[Rerun7]

I got right at 2800 on a 77gr TMK from 24.2gr of TAC without it getting too hot but the accuracy wasn’t as good as I wanted. I get 2550 from 23gr and it does a fine job.

I use RE15 in my bolt gun but didn’t like it for the AR

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

It is hard to get yourself in trouble with Varget. You would really have to try hard to get enough powder in the case to be unsafe.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

It is hard to get yourself in trouble with Varget. You would really have to try hard to get enough powder in the case to be unsafe.

That’s what I was leaning towards. How is gas levels with Varget? As I’m shooting suppressed ALWAYS, it’s nice to reduce blowback.

 

[Shadow_Warrior]

Varget is great powder but I switched over to XBR 8028 as it measures better and seems to get better velocity.

 

[smoothy8500]

I'm using Nosler 77 "blems" for NRA XTC matches which work well at 600yds. Beyond 300yds you need 69's or higher to avoid really getting moved by the wind.

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[Deleted member 113831]

23 grains of anything in a medium burn rate with a 69-77 grain pill should shoot well enough.

Chasing velocity with a 223 is pointless. It's out of gas at 600 yards anyway from a carbine length barrel.

More velocity just means more gas for your already over gassed gun, unless your gas block is adjustable.

 

[natdscott]

You have gotten some really good advice here so far.

Keep tension for magazine loads to 0.003" unless you will be crimping. If I were crimping, which I do not, I would use a Lee Profile, and LIGHTLY crimp a match bullet with 0.002" tension out of the sizing die. 0.004" is too much, crimp or not. Less than 0.002" is asking for trouble unless you are hand loading one at a time.

Varget for 62-69 Grainers.
RE-15 for 68-82 Grainers.
MR2000 for Ultra- Heavies if you want to push them fast. FASSSST. (Also fast on the throat.)

No other powders are needed to do 99.3% of what an AR can do with heavies.

Seat primers at LEAST 0.002" below flush. 3-5 tenths is good sometimes, but measure the pockets and try for 0.002" crush, if you have tools to do it.

Bump shoulders not less than 0.003". You DO have a range of motion there, and if you try to bump them only 0.002", sometimes you'll get one that only got pushed ONE. That can cause issues.

Keep your gun clean. If not that, then at least clean the BCG and chamber fairly reg'lar. I liked to keep things under 200 rounds at a time, because it's way easier to clean that way.

Use DECENT, tough brass. That is spelled L-A-K-E C-I-T-Y, and new surplus is more better.


-Nate

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

More velocity just means more gas for your already over gassed gun, unless your gas block is adjustable.

I forgot how dirty shooting gas guns were. Bolt guns feel so much more refined. That said, I‘m using a PWS adjustable gas piston which helps a lot and I also have an H2 and H3 buffer. Once I settle on the load, I’ll tun it up to run as smooth as possible.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

Just and update... she seems to like the 75-77 grain pills, though with velocity testing on several varieties I seem to get more mass*velocity from the 68-70 grain range. Dies deliver today and I have a few different flavors of bullets. I’ll be loading CFE-223 ladders with 68 and 75 HPBTs and should have enough data to make a solid load choice.

 

[Steel head]

Varget is great powder but I switched over to XBR 8028 as it measures better and seems to get better velocity.

And your not heavily crunching powder.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I like Benchmark in a ar. Shoots very well, good velocity especially in a short barrel. 60 grain matchking at MidwayUSA will be your most economical way to get a premium bullet on the cheap.

 

[TSloper]

My current reloads are

LC 18 brass
77 gr SMK with cannelure
CCI 41 primers
8208 XBR (23.6gr, last lot needed 23.8gr)
On fired brass I average 2610 fps on a 16.1” barrel. Suppressor adds about 12 fps. Target OBT of 0.887ms in QL.
Light FCD crimp

Some tips...

- Ditch the expander ball and get a 0.2220” mandrel. My neck runout on 50 pieces of once fired, annealed, and resized brass was less than 0.0005” last night. The necks were not turned.
- case volume is critical for consistency. Don’t mess with mixed brass and don’t assume one brass brand/lot is the same as the last
- get a good caliper and Hornady comparator kit. Consistent seating depth matters. Don’t measure tip to base.