Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

[TDH]

I have my long range arsenal pretty much situated and want to build a new F-Class rifle. I shot last year with a semi-auto AR in 308 with 20" barrel. I would like a dedicated F-Class rifle.

I already have a Badger M2008 SA and a AICS 2.0 inletted for the Badger action. I have to state that I am new to reloading and have experience with handgun calibers but would be starting with little experience on rifle rounds.

It seems there are a few available match rounds commercially for both. I had planned to reload either and was leaning toward the Lapua because I had heard the brass for the 260 wasn't very good. Rumors circling that Lapua and Norma are both planning to make 260 brass made me reconsider the 260 again. I was planning on getting a set of Redding dies in the GB in the classifieds but see the Type S match dies aren't available in 260. The high pressures in the 6.5x47 make it seem like it isn't much of a starter caliber to start reloading. I'm pretty meticulous and will take my time but would the 260 be easier to load? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

The first thing I need to do is decide on a caliber. I plan to send the stock and action to either Louisiana Precision Rifles, APA, or GAP. I have a long wait ahead of me once I make the decision.

Then I guess I should decide on barrel length. I was originally planning a 26-28" barrel but after reading LowLight's thread on the short barrel 260 performing so well I'm considering something shorter, lighter, and easier to handle.

I have a 28" 338 and a 32" 50 BMG and both are pretty tiresome to lug around.

I'd like to shoot one of the heavier projectiles, more than likely the 139 scenars.

I will be dedicated solely to F-Class at 600. I'm going to put a 3-15 NightForce F1 on it more than likely.

 

[JRose]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

6 in one hand, 1/2 dozen in the other. They'll both throw a 6.5 pill fast, it's all on which brass you savvy...

Terry will set you straight on the lack of .260 brass selection...

I went with the 6.5 Creedmoor (pretty much the same as 6.5x47, only with Hornady brass) due to the cheaper match ammo, but it turns out the factory ammo is too slow for me.

Either of the 3 will net you positive results. If I were starting over, I would do the 6.5x47. Honady might offer cheap match ammo, but they're brass, when purchased separately, is high as Giraffe ass... Plus, I'm a fan of Lapua brass.

 

[glock24]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

I had this dilemma with my latest build.

I went with the 6.5x47mm Lapua. My main reasoning was the slightly shorter case. It is easier to get those long VLD bullets to fit in an AICS magazine, yet still seat into the lands of the chamber.

I also love Lapua brass, but I cry like a baby when I loose one at the range.

 

[JRose]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had this dilemma with my latest build.

I went with the 6.5x47mm Lapua. My main reasoning was the slightly shorter case. It is easier to get those long VLD bullets to fit in an AICS magazine, yet still seat into the lands of the chamber.

I also love Lapua brass, but I cry like a baby when I loose one at the range.
</div></div>

This man speaka tha trufe....

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

Does the 6.5CM run a small or large rifle primer?

For a purpose built F Class gun I'd look at 6X47 Lapua, or long action and go 6.5-284

 

[DanW]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

Ok, to stir the shit a little...Would the lower velocities with a heavier bullet(around 140gr) make it worth loading them into a smaller cartridge like a .260 and 6.5x47? I think a lot of guys are shooting 120-130gr in these calibers aren't they?

Off topic a little bit, but can you cram a 6.5x284 into a .308 AICS mag with the steel piece removed from the front of the mag?

 

[awp762]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

My preference is for the 6.5x47 Lapua. Berger 130's using RL15 & CCI 450's.are shooting really well in my friends rifle. Chrono data shows avg = 2813fps with a SD of 5.2 Very easy to load for. Long loads fit nicely in the AICS mags.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

I was in a similar boat last year and opted for the .260RP. I even had purchased the 6.5x47L Reamer but changed my mind. Nosler makes great .260 brass and is what I'm using now although it’s expensive. 243 or 308 Lapua brass could be used by necking up or down. 7-08 Winchester brass is also an alternative. The 6.5x47L with 130 Bergers will feed great from a standard non-modified AI mag and let you seat the bullets where they need to be. I had to modify my AI mag and receiver in order for my .260 to feed and be in the lands (.100" Freebore Reamer) I've since had one of my .260 reamers re-ground for a shorter seating depth (.060" Freebore Reamer). The 6.5x47L's I've built have all been great shooters and I think it’s a very good round. I'll probably build myself one soon although the .260 has been all I could ask for. I’m not leaning on mine and it’s driving the 130’s at 2,920fps. Great accuracy and the last time I shot to 1k it was only 25.25moa to get there.

For me, the advantage to the .260 is brass can easily be made from various calibers/sources. The 6.5x47L is another story and at $80.00+ per 100, loosing them can make you cry like a school girl.

If I can help feel free to call at any time.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

i would go the 6.5X47 Lapua route with a 260 and unmodified AI mags you have to load them shorter than optimum but the lapua case works a dream. As for reloading if you are looking for match accuracy they are both the same to load for but the Lapua case with its longer neck is better for pure accuracy and the 30 degree shoulder is also a plus.

as for the barrel length 24" will get you done but i would look at 26" if the barrel is heavy have a fluted barrel fitted to reduce some weight but for F Class you are allowed 22lb and dont run around with them. I would also look at a piece of glass with higher magnification if primarary using for F Class i use a 12-42 MF benchrest and use it on 42 most of the time for Open F Class i would also get a single shot adaprot machined up to clip into your mag well when shooting F Class as you cant shoot from a mag in the comps anyway.

If you are looking for a dual purpose tacticle rifle that will also work realy well for F Class the fluted barreled way would be fine also a realy good barrel profile that is not to heavy is the Rem Varmint profile they shoot realy well without being to heavy to cart around.

For F Class though i would have a scope tha was at least 25 power i would look at the premier or if you are dedicated to nightforce a higher power.

I think you are trying to make a tacticle type rifle dedicated to F Class if you want a dedicated F Class rifle personaly get a F Class stock single shot action and heavy barrel the rifle you are thinking about is more suited to a tacticle match than OIpen F Class. The stock, glass and having a mag are all not the best options. I would use the parts you are thinking off for a kick ass tacticle rifle.

I shoot F Class Open here in Australia and use the following
lawton single shot 7500 action short action dual port with magnum and 308 bolt. Nightforce 12-42 with CH2 reticle. Shehane modified Lee six thumbhole stock. 5 diferent barrels 308, 6mm dasher, 6mm55SMC, 7mm rem SAUM and a 7mm short mag wildcat. I alwso have a jewell HVR trigger so i can use it at 4oz for open and a spring change and barrel change it has a 308 with 2.2lb trigger for the standard rules here.

hope this helps but if you are going to build a dedicated rifle for a comp make it the best setup for that come Open F Class allows 22 pound weight limit and has a 1/2 moa X there so the calibres for longer ranges would be better but for back to 600 yards the 6.5X47 is a good choice. if you are going to shoot from 600 to 1000 yards sompthing like a 284 Win is perfect and can be done with a change of a barrel use the 6.5 to 600 switch the barrel out and use a larger calibre for 1000yds.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

I'd go 260, brass can be made very easy, 243 up 7-08 down, CM has alot going for it if mag feeding is required, Lapua does make nice brass but the cost is a turn off for me.

 

[DanW]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if you are going to shoot from 600 to 1000 yards sompthing like a 284 Win is perfect and can be done with a change of a barrel use the 6.5 to 600 switch the barrel out and use a larger calibre for 1000yds.

</div></div>

Uh, he has a n M2008 SA, I think the .284 would be out of the question, wouldn't it?

 

[wi50]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

the .284 would work fine, though it wouldn't optimize the cartrage. You'd need a short throat and sacrafice some boiler room to make it fit in the mag.


Back to the original question. I'd opt for the 6.5X47 Lapua. Brass price may scare you, but it may well cost less in the long run for it in brass life and barrel life. Simply great brass, simple to load for, no messing with this load for this kind of brass, there's only Lapua available. Fits well in un-modified mags saveing time or $$ I've fit a number of 6.5X47 and .260 for the Badger and it may well be 6 of one or half dozen of the other, but the X47 gets my vote. You mentin a shorter barrel and I think the X47 with less boiler room may be a choice in shorter barrel.

 

[Natty Bumpo]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

Don't have any experience with the .260 Rem, but I shoot a 6.5X47 and have used it in a couple F-class shoots. I haven't found it to be fussy to load for. I think with a well built rifle, finding a good load shouldn't be too difficult.

Some say the .260 is better for heavier bullets (<span style="text-decoration: underline">></span>140 gr) 'cause it's got a bit more powder capacity and is a longer case. My opinion: if you're only planning on shooting to 600 yards, a 120-130 grain bullet should do just fine. 15 power on the scope will work at 600 yards (I use a 16X scope), but personally, I'd rather have a bit more magnification for a dedicated 600 yard rig.

I've got a 23" barrel and shoot 123 grain scenars at 2,800 ft/s. And that's a fairly moderate load. You can load it hotter. At 600 yards I dial up about 14 MOA from a 100 yard zero.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

sorry as he wants to build a Dedicated F Class rifle it is load one fire it the target go's down and is marked then the target comes up in wich time you have reloaded F Class is single load only so if you have a 100 round drum under your rifle you still are only allowed to load one at a time and the time frame for the target to dissapeer and come up gives you heaps of time to reload.

I am a bit worried about his build because every part of the build is a compromise as said for F Class the 6X47 Lapua is a much better cartrige the stock is all wrong as well as being a folder not required then having a detachable mag system not required a solid bottom reciever is probably better but the action would be as good as anything if it was a single shot i would think an amasing F Class action. then the glass a 15 power scope has no where the magnification needed to compete at the top level. The use of a ranging reticle is not required as you shoot from known distances and the target rings dont change their dimensions with a magnification change fo is aiming off just use the lines printed on the target the best scopes to use dont have anything excepr a fine cross hair and dot if you like the dot and i do.

If this was to be a tacticle rifle the calibre of 6.5X47 barrel around 24" ACIS 2.0 badger action and FFP nightforce are all excelent choices but for a dedicated F Class rifle every part is compromised except the action it will work for a F Class rifle but i would have it single shot.

I dont meen to shit can this guys ideas or his knowlidge i am trying to help this guy out before he gets to far into sompthing and then realises he spent top dollor ont he best rifle that would be better in a diferent dicipline.

So F Class Open because he will not be using a 223 or 308 the rules are as follows
22lb rifle weight limit
3" forend width max
trigger must be safe and the weight is unlimited
any calibre up to and including 8mm for world events but i think 338 is now allowed in the US where ranges allow it
No muzzle breaks.
The target has a 1moa center scoring ring with a half moa X in the middle here we have a 1/2moa 10 ring so their are no x's for count out and the highest score out of 100 wins we have shooters that shoot 100's back to 700 yards regularly and high 90's win nearly all ranges with some mising out on a place shooting 99 out of 100 back to 600 yards.

so if he is building a tacticle rifle he is on the righe track but as he stated this rifle will be designated for F Class wrong type of rifle and the calibre could be better for past 600 yards back to 600 yards it is on parr with the 6mmbr type cartriges and the 6X47 lapua realy hammers but for tacticle shooting the 6.5X47 is a bit better for barrel life when hammering lots of rounds down range in a short time.

 

[TDH]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

Thanks for all the input. I'm still weighing the options. The rifle I shot last year wasn't ideal. I shot the 308 with my 5.5-22x50 Nightforce. The extra magnification was nice but I would like to save the weight. As I mentioned I'm by far no expert and do appreciate all the input you guys have. All I do have at this point is the action and the stock. I got a killer deal on the stock and am familiar with the AICS chasis from other builds I own.

The optics can completely be changed. I can't say it won't be a dual purpose rifle tactical/competition, but I do have other go to guns if the need ever came

I don't really expect to win matches. I'm just an old soldier that likes to pull a trigger every once in a while. Definitely not looking at competing on a large scale basis.

 

[skeetlee]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

If your going to get serious with the f-class game and you know you want a 6.5mm I would strongly think about a 260AI or a 6.5x284. Those two chambering will win if drove correctly. Actually the 7mm stuff is whats winning in the scores i have been reading. I built a 6dasher for my f-class rifle, but around here 600 yards is as far as we go. I also have a creedmoor and it is showing some really good groups so far. If i go to a 1000 yards ever i would have to look at the 260AI or bump up to a 7mm. Lee

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

Hi what i would do then is build it as a dual purpose rifle then and fit the FFP 15 power nightforce to your AR and take the 22 power nightforce of it and place it onto this rifle. If you are going to shoot F Class the mose the 6X47 LApua with 107 or 115gr Projectiles would be a better fit and would still work for your tacticle matches otherwise the 6.5X47 would be the best choice. I would go with at least a 26" barrel to give yourself a good ballance of velocity and have it close to a remington Varmint profile and flute it if you think it will be to heavy for your needs. this would also become a nice long range varmint rifle if you had it in 6mm the 105 A Max's from 6X47 Lapuas are awsome at long ranges making the rifle very versitile. Just get behind the stocl on a sandbag with the action siting in it and the scope on top and see how it will work for you as they are not realy designed for shooting off a benchrest type sand bag.

Hope it all works for you i would also look at keeping the projectiles around the 123-130gr they seem to bebetter for both of the 6.5's you are thinking about the 142's are a bit heavy and the lighter projectiles seem to shoot better in the smaler cases.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

Imagine you could shoot a .308, except you had this magic bullet that only weighed 142gr and had the BC of a cruise missile.

Well; that's the .260. It's like endowing the .308 with the ballistics of the .300WM, while simultaneously achieving a serious reduction in recoil. Also some of the reloading costs.

Any 7-08 or .243 brass will work. Lapua makes .243. I use Winchester, and do dandy, plus the factory Rem brass isn't half bed, either. Making .260 brass from .243 and 7-08 is a simple matter of running it through the F/L resizer. Dass' all, Bro.

I think the .260 is the minimum reasonable 1Kyd case capacity for the 6.5, and the 6.5x55 inhabits the other end of a fairly narrow band. Either way, larger or smaller, either case capacity or the need for hot loading doesn't seem as good for bore life, IMHO.

I run a moderate load in a 28" barrel, and get 2800fps without major pressure signs. I use 1:8" twist and suspect a 1:8.5" or 1:9" twist might be marginally better.

My Barrel is an L-W listed product. L-W50 Stainless, Savage #5171 Varmint Taper, 28" length, 1:8" twist (1:9" and 1:10" are available), recessed target crown, honed bore, SAAMI chambered for .260 rem, Savage threaded for user installation, Current $308.00 list price. My only request was for a 'shorter' throat, in an interest of throat life extension. Currently at about 1200-1400rd; borescoping, throat mesurement, and discussion with L-W suggests a 2400rd accurate life. I bought two, the other was used by STP to take first in the Odessa FV200 match yesterday.

H4350 and Ramshot Hunter are good propellents.

Accuracy, wind drift, etc., all are excellent.

IMHO, it's a no brainer...

Greg

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

TDH, trouble for you is few shooters have much experience with both and naturally we want everyone to believe we made the right choice so the one we chose is best. The truth probably is, between these two choices there is no difference; one is as good as the other.
If you choose Lapua, which is what I have allot of experience with, do this and it will be good: insist the smith chamber your barrel with the right amount of free bore to suit the bullet you want to shoot, seated correctly in the case. This is important.
For a 600 yard bullet, I'd select a 130 by Norma or Berger, provide dimensions of that properly loaded round to the smith, ask for a chamber whose dimensions measure no more than 50 thousanths free-bore for the Norma and in the lands by 20 K's for the Berger.
Last, if I were you I'd use a smith who builds F-Class rifles otherwise you'll get smack talk about what you need and what you get will be what he or she thinks you need versus what serves you best for your intended purpose.
In your area, Don Geraci is the go to guy for F-Class advice. He's usually at Palo Alto Gun Club.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.

True enough regarding the experience. I've not had any custom guns built, per se, although I have had some help rebarreling my Savages. Don Geraci's name rings good bells with me.

BTW, if you want to shoot a smaller capacity 6.5 than th .260 Rem, try the .260 Bobcat. I'm looking at it long and hard as an FV200 chambering. A tad smaller than the 6.5x47, it's essentially a 6.5-250. Reportedly, it feeds a tad better, too. I think it's a much underappreciated cartridge, and may be the next 'interesting 6.5'. I put it in the same classs as the 6BRX/6XC, but it makes holes another .5mm wide. Wider bullets cut more lines.

The only factor about the 6.5CM that might interest me is the fact that it allows a SA 6.5mm cartridge to be seated to the lands with a long bullet and still have a good chance of feeding. The same could be said for the .260 Bobcat/6.5-250, as long as one was not irrevocably committed to 1Kyd shooting.

Greg

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have my long range arsenal pretty much situated and want to build a new F-Class rifle. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">I would like a dedicated F-Class rifle</span>.</span>

I already have a Badger M2008 SA and a AICS 2.0 inletted for the Badger action. I have to state that I am new to reloading and have experience with handgun calibers but would be starting with little experience on rifle rounds.

The first thing I need to do is decide on a caliber. I plan to send the stock and action to either Louisiana Precision Rifles, APA, or GAP. I have a long wait ahead of me once I make the decision.

Then I guess I should decide on barrel length. I was originally planning a 26-28" barrel but after reading LowLight's thread on the short barrel 260 performing so well <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">I'm considering something shorter, lighter, and easier to handle</span>.</span>

I'd like to shoot one of the heavier projectiles, more than likely the 139 scenars.

I will be dedicated solely to F-Class at 600.

I'm going to put a 3-15 NightForce F1 on it more than likely. </div></div>

With much respect, you are totally contradicting yourself.

It is totally OK to shoot F-Class with a hunting or tactical type rifle but your goals and chosen components are not in the best interest of a "dedicated" F-Class rifle.

My opinion is that you could certainly still use the M2008 and 2.0 AICS since that is what you have, however you need to have a chat with yourself and decide if you want an all round rifle or an F-class rifle.

A "dedicated" F-Class rifle should weigh within ounces of the max limit. You aren't lugging it around a mountain and when you are on the line, every smidgen of weight is your friend when it's trigger time. Talk to your benchrest guys. Weight takes your bad shooter inputs out of the equation better. The M2008 is Heavy. The 2.0 AICS is heavy. So far, so good. Light weight and handy were left in the rear view mirror as soon as you brought home those two key components so you might as well make it work to your advantage.

Ditto with barrel length. You will want every bit of efficiency out our what ever cartridge you choose. This usually means longer barrels starting at 26" minimum.

You said you prefer the 139 Scenar. Very good bullet. The .260 Rem will consistently push that bullet faster and more consistently than the 6.5x47L. Most Lapua shooters are throwing 123gr and 130gr bullets because the smaller case cannot push the 139-142gr class bullets as fast w/o pressure issues.

Norma, Nosler and R.P. already make brass with the Norma and Nosler being very, very high grade. We are running W.W. stamp 7-08 cases through a std .260Rem die once and have consistent, hard cases that are priced attractively and shoot very small. No tears if one gets lost. Bottom line on cartridge choice is that case availability is not even an issue. With Norma at the top and R.P. at the bottom of the spectrum, you could even argue that the 260 Rem has better case choice than the 6.5x47L. A properly spec'd chamber in .260Rem will not cause any issues at all with bullet jump and mag length.

I would definitely encourage you to choose another scope than the F1 for your F-Class rifle.
The F1 is meant to give efficiencies and robustness to a working type rifle. Any F-Class rifle would be far better suited with something along the line of an NXS 5.5-22 SFP. Better reticle and more X. Any value FFP has in other games is totally lost in F-Class and I actually would consider it a disadvantage.

This is just one persons opinion and I am not the guru on any of this. I would however encourage you to think this through further and do some more research before proceeding.

Best of luck with your project.
TC

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

When Terry talks; I listen...

 

[TDH]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

I think Terry is changing my mind toward the 260. I always lean toward general purpose instead of building what I really want. The F class matches are the only time I get a chance to get out past 100 yards. I think I'm going to lean 260 and talk to the smith. I'm already talking a build with wnroscoe as he is a great poster, somewhat local to me, and from what I've seen a phenomenal rifle builder.

 

[Hasgun Willtravel]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

I run a Pierce 6.5x47L with 41.0gr of H4350, 205M, pushing a 142 SMK @ 28505-2875 fps out of a 28" tube. Its surgical. Its exactly what I ran my 6.5x284 at, a light load for the 284, but getting near tops for the Lapua. I dont get any pressure, at least not below 72 degrees. I get a little cratering, but not flattening of the primer. No feel on bolt lift, fired cases easliy rechamber with a smidge of feel, and is perfectly accurate. Cases are not suffering at all.

Me and a buddy were shooting the 8"x3" metal prarie dog target at 800 yards at the range this weekend with ZERO difficulty.

I ran 123 scears with 37.4gr of RE15 at 2975 all summer and at the Reade Range match. Its shot good out to around 700-800 yards and was just running out of gas past that. It was really discouraging.

Switched bullets, and there is a huge noticble differance on the 1000 yard plates and accuracy at that range.

The reamer that the chamber was cut with was for the 120/123 class of bullets, however, there is plenty of room to seat that 142 .015 off the lands and still have ample room in the mag. The bullet is sitting in the case to where the boattail starts before the shoulder, so I am not loosing any case capacity in the case over the 123 Scenars.

 

[steve123]

Re: Help me spec out my build and decide 260 vs 6.5x47

TDH,

Buy my RFD benchrest rifle in 6x47L!

It's perfect for 600Y benchrest.

Steve