Help needed. Chamber issue?

SoundFx

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 13, 2008
232
30
48
NV
Hello all,

I am not knowledgeable about some areas of bolt guns, and this is one of them. Your help would be appreciated.

My rifle has less than 150 rounds through it, and it was made by a top builder of custom rifles. To be clear, I have not bubba'd anything, or attempted any modifications myself.

After having a few other fairly serious issues with the rifle that necessitated sending it back a few times, this issue appeared on the last range trip:

In several instances, when retracting the bolt after firing the spent casing would not extract fully. Upon full bolt retraction using a normal amount of force, the spent brass casing would be resting inside the receiver on top of the other rounds in the magazine. Just kinda sitting in there. On several other occasions, the spent casing simply wouldn't come out at all. It would be still in the chamber. Not stuck fast, mind you, a VERY light push with the cleaning rod, and I mean very light, would pop the casing out. Literally the gravity of the rod sliding down the barrel would be more than enough force to remove the cartridge.

So, it appeared to me that the extractor was not doing its job. I felt the extractor tension, and on this particular rifle it felt kind of floppy, not like most rifles I've had experience with that have fairly taut extractor tension. The next day, I called the manufacturer of the action and spoke with a top individual there (again, another well-respected and well-known company). I told him about the issue, and that I was thinking it was a weak extractor spring. They had spring issues with other areas of this receiver, and I thought it might be a solid idea. Well, the individual sent me a replacement extractor spring that arrived today, and I just installed it.

Same problem. Using spent casings and inserting them into the chamber, closing the bolt, open the bolt, retract, and the casing is still stuck in the chamber.

What's going on here? The person at the manufacturer of the receiver mentioned that it might be a "long chamber". I am using commercially loaded match ammunition from Black Hills and Hornady.

I am quite frustrated at this point, which is why I have put a deposit on an AIAW. At least that's a rifle that I know will work properly.

Many thanks in advance,
Sfx
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

Nice.
laugh.gif


As for the match, with the way this gun has been working I would have been watching from the stands, instead of getting my ass handed to me on the line. Heh heh.

S.

 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

Hey Rksimple, how are things?

It's an M16 style extractor. Held in by a roll pin. I really don't want to say too much more because it will be obvious what rifle I'm talking about. I will be calling them again on Monday.
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

Things are good. I've had some issues with an M16 extractor myself...but it has do to with it putting the brass straight into the scope windage knob. If you have sufficient ejector force, there may be an extractor issue. Especially if the brass is stuck in the chamber.
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

i dont get it, nobody wants to post what it is they have problems with. i can understand not posting "so and so builds crap" but thats not the case, even the highest quality most expensive product can have problems, if someone had a inop. window motor or a oil leak on their mercedes amg it doesnt mean its a crappy car. maybe im just not as p.c. as most.
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fast freddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont get it, nobody wants to post what it is they have problems with. i can understand not posting "so and so builds crap" but thats not the case, even the highest quality most expensive product can have problems, if someone had a inop. window motor or a oil leak on their mercedes amg it doesnt mean its a crappy car. maybe im just not as p.c. as most. </div></div>

I understand what you're saying. But, I just want to give the manufacturer and builder maximum leeway to make it right without the usual Internet drama and unpleasantness. If I run out of options, or am basically told that I am SOL, I will PM a moderator here and ask if it's ok for me to share the details.
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

You can buy a Bentley and may still have problem. That doesn't mean that all Bentleys are bad car. With regards to mentioning the name of the builder/manufacturer, I see nothing wrong with that. There is only a problem if you have a legitimate problem and they refuse to fix it, or your intention is just to bash the builder then it's a different issue.
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

Thing is it might not be the extractor at all. It could be a headspace issue, it could be how the bolt nose recess was cut in the barrel, or several other issues. This is one of those issues without having the weapon in hand to look at it would be hard to say exactly what is causing your problem.

Holding the receiver manufacture responsible may not be were the fault lies. Take it to the builder and have him take care of it. If it is indeed an issue with the bolt or extractor let the manufacture and the builder fix the issue.

Then again a simple swap of the extractor my fix the issue. Shit happens and the extractor my just be bad.
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thing is it might not be the extractor at all. It could be a headspace issue, it could be how the bolt nose recess was cut in the barrel, or several other issues. This is one of those issues without having the weapon in hand to look at it would be hard to say exactly what is causing your problem.

Holding the receiver manufacture responsible may not be were the fault lies. Take it to the builder and have him take care of it. If it is indeed an issue with the bolt or extractor let the manufacture and the builder fix the issue.

Then again a simple swap of the extractor my fix the issue. Shit happens and the extractor my just be bad.
</div></div>

This is what I was fearing (if in fact it proves to be the case, which is obviously yet to be determined). I am not trying to lay blame at anyone's feet, but the fact is a problem has occurred somewhere between the manufacturer of the receiver and the builder. Luckily in this case they have a good relationship and can easily communicate with one another.

The rifle has been back to the builder once, and the receiver manufacturer once (as an entire rifle), and the bolt has been sent to the receiver manufacturer once, although not in that order. The last trip was the entire rifle going to the receiver manufacturer.

So, three trips, both ways, all in all. I simply cannot believe that it could be a headspace issue after all those trips. It seems like such a basic thing to check a rifle with a go and no-go gauge. I do not possess the gauges myself, so I can't tell. What makes me suspect it's something else is that the problem seemed to start on this last range trip. Although, to be fair to myself, I was not able to put enough rounds downrange on previous range trips because of other reliability issues. So, I really am at a loss.

I think I want a new rifle at this point.
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

Ok, slight update on this. While single-loading some Black Hills Match 168's as a test, I could only get semi-normal extraction one out of ten times, and often less frequently than that. Usually, as described above, the cartridge would just be left sitting in the chamber. Sometimes, the extractor would have a very light grip on the casing rim and it would sort of let go of the cartridge while still mid-way during the bolt's rearward travel through the receiver.

<span style="font-style: italic">However</span>, when I tried some 7.62x51 NATO Lithuanian surplus, it seemed to extract reliably. The extractor would grab, and the whole process would work as it is supposed to.

I know there are slight dimensional differences between .308 and 7.62x51 NATO. Would this difference in behavior indicate that the chamber is long, or perhaps something else? I can't remember, but I'm guessing that the NATO ammunition is slightly longer than the .308. Is that correct?

Thanks for your help,
S.
 
Re: Help needed. Chamber issue?

Both casing rims seem to lock in just fine doing that. The ejector has good spring pressure, it's nice and taut. The extractor seems to grab just fine when you press the casing rim in (hopefully I'm properly understanding what you're asking).