Help reloading 6.5 CM

[Ghillie21]

So I'm a beginner at reloading. I'm currently trying to make a dummy round for my rifle.

I used the Hornady OAL gauge to find the BTO measurement for my rifle's chamber and found it to be 1.999 on an average of three tries. To give it 20 thou jump I aimed for a BTO of 1.97 after seating. When comparing it to a factory loaded round with the same bullet and brass(Hornady 140gr ELDM) it seems like my ogive is too far inside the casing.

Is this okay? Or is this bullet too far inside of the case? I can't find a minimum overall length for 6.5CM anywhere on the web.

Factory ammo is on the left in my picture for reference.

 

[spife7980]

Does factory ammo have difficulty chambering?

coloring the bullet in sharpie will also let you see if you are just touching on the lands or if you are dragging it somewhere.

 

[Ghillie21]

Factory ammo loads fine, I measured again and got a BTO of 2.05 twice, which seems a bit more reasonable and brings my COAL to 2.702.

 

[918v]

I have a better idea for you:

Take a FL sized case and seat a bullet in it to 2.950” coal to the tip. Chamber it and see if the bolt closes. It prolly won’t. Don’t force it cuz you don’t wanna jam the bullet too much. Now seat that bullet deeper in the case in small increments until you can close the bolt easily. That will give you an appropriate coal where the bullet is touching the lands. Now compare it to your tool.

If factory ammo chambers, but your tool indicates it shouldn’t chamber, then your tool is a piece of shit or you are measuring or doing math incorrectly.

 

[Ghillie21]

I have a better idea for you:

Take a FL sized case and seat a bullet in it to 2.950” coal to the tip. Chamber it and see if the bolt closes. It prolly won’t. Don’t force it cuz you don’t wanna jam the bullet too much. Now seat that bullet deeper in the case in small increments until you can close the bolt easily. That will give you an appropriate coal where the bullet is touching the lands. Now compare it to your tool.

If factory ammo chambers, but your tool indicates it shouldn’t chamber, then your tool is a piece of shit or you are measuring or doing math incorrectly.

So I tried this out, and bolt would easily close on 2.845 but would get resistance at 2.865 COAL. Is this worrisome?

 

[308pirate]

So I tried this out, and bolt would easily close on 2.845 but would get resistance at 2.865 COAL. Is this worrisome?

Is that OAL to the tip or to the ogive?

Your rifle is your rifle. Load what IT wants and don't compare it to anyone else's loads.

 

[Ghillie21]

That is COAL to the tip, but even with a 20thou jump it is still above the maximum COAL for the bullet. Is there anything wrong with just making sure a cartridge is just under the maximum COAL for the bullet? (2.800 in this case)

 

[918v]

So I tried this out, and bolt would easily close on 2.845 but would get resistance at 2.865 COAL. Is this worrisome?

No it’s pretty normal. So what I would do is start at 2.800” and go from there. That will give you plenty of clearance to avoid pressure problems and plenty of room to tune the coal.

 

[TRPrecision]

That is COAL to the tip, but even with a 20thou jump it is still above the maximum COAL for the bullet. Is there anything wrong with just making sure a cartridge is just under the maximum COAL for the bullet? (2.800 in this case)

There is no true COAL. If it has enough of the bullet in the case neck (1 bullet diameter of depth into case), it fits in your chamber , and will load in your magazine, you are good to go. COAL means nothing.

 

[Rob01]

So I tried this out, and bolt would easily close on 2.845 but would get resistance at 2.865 COAL. Is this worrisome?

That is pretty normal for a SAAMI .199 freebore. I am at lands with the 140ELD at 2.870 and load them at 2.850". You can load them there or you can load at the factory OAL. The ELD-M doesn't mind a jump.

 

[918v]

There is no true COAL. If it has enough of the bullet in the case neck (1 bullet diameter of depth into case), it fits in your chamber , and will load in your magazine, you are good to go. COAL means nothing.

How do you fine tune a load then?

 

[TRPrecision]

How do you fine tune a load then?

Small changes in seating depth.
I can load anywhere from .120" jump to .020" jam depending on what the rifle likes. Bullet tips are not consistent enough for COAL to be anything but a rough measurement.

 

[Rob01]

ELD-M tips are more consistant than BTHP type.

 

[308pirate]

That is COAL to the tip, but even with a 20thou jump it is still above the maximum COAL for the bullet. Is there anything wrong with just making sure a cartridge is just under the maximum COAL for the bullet? (2.800 in this case)

SAAMI cartridge dimensions (including OAL) are a standard to get all ammo mass producers a target so their their ammo will chamber in any rifle of the caliber that is chambered to SAAMI chamber dimensions.

You're not an ammo mass producer. You are loading for your rifle. SAAMI's OAL is no longer relevant.

You need to make sure of two absolutes when it comes to cartridge length

1. You need to make sure that the base to ogive length will not jam the bullet into the lands, unless you intend to load into the lands (yes, it can be done once one is a competent reloader).
2. You need to make sure that the base to tip length is such that your ammo will load and feed reliably into and out of the magazine, if you intend it to.

Within those parameters you can adjust OAL to fine tune a load's precision.

 

[308pirate]

Small changes in seating depth.
I can load anywhere from .120" jump to .020" jam depending on what the rifle likes. Bullet tips are not consistent enough for COAL to be anything but a rough measurement.

So then measure to the ogive..........

 

[TRPrecision]

So then measure to the ogive..........

That is how I measure MY loads, I don't have an issue with my loading method. The OP has a problem somewhere with his method and can't seem to get an accurate measurement for some reason.

 

[Ghillie21]

SAAMI cartridge dimensions (including OAL) are a standard to get all ammo mass producers a target so their their ammo will chamber in any rifle of the caliber that is chambered to SAAMI chamber dimensions.

You're not an ammo mass producer. You are loading for your rifle. SAAMI's OAL is no longer relevant.

You need to make sure of two absolutes when it comes to cartridge length

1. You need to make sure that the base to ogive length will not jam the bullet into the lands, unless you intend to load into the lands (yes, it can be done once one is a competent reloader).
2. You need to make sure that the base to tip length is such that your ammo will load and feed reliably into and out of the magazine, if you intend it to.

Within those parameters you can adjust OAL to fine tune a load's precision.

How do you know if you're jamming the bullet into the lands?

 

[Steel+Killer]

So I'm a beginner at reloading. I'm currently trying to make a dummy round for my rifle.

I used the Hornady OAL gauge to find the BTO measurement for my rifle's chamber and found it to be 1.999 on an average of three tries. To give it 20 thou jump I aimed for a BTO of 1.97 after seating. When comparing it to a factory loaded round with the same bullet and brass(Hornady 140gr ELDM) it seems like my ogive is too far inside the casing.

Is this okay? Or is this bullet too far inside of the case? I can't find a minimum overall length for 6.5CM anywhere on the web.

Factory ammo is on the left in my picture for reference.

If the one on the right is 20 thou off the lands then the factory on the left shouldn't even chamber from the looks of that picture......LOL Something is askew here.

 

[spife7980]

How do you know if you're jamming the bullet into the lands?

You can feel and see it.

Color it in sharpie, you’ll be able to see the 3,4,5,6 land imprints, however many grooves your barrel is. If it’s really jammed you’ll go past just the lands and get a full on scuff mark the whole way around. But sharpie makes it easy to see where the bullet got touched.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Happily, I only borrowed a Hornady OAL length gauge and modified cartridges, and found the thing wildly inconsistent in both .223 and 6.5CM. What I use now is the bullet of choice seated long in a neck-split case (pictured), which holds the bullet firmly but does allow it to slide. Then I

1. Push the bullet/case into the chamber with a finger until it stops on the case shoulder.
2. Use a cleaning rod to push the "round" out from the muzzle, being very careful to protect the muzzle crown. The bullet will stick a little in the lands first time.
3. Measure CBTO.
4. Optionally, seat the bullet in further a thousandth or two
5. Repeat steps 1-4 until the "round's" CBTO measurement is consistent. If resized and seated properly, the case/bullet should fall out on its own without pushing with the cleaning rod when the bullet is a thousandth off the lands.

I get CBTO lengths consistent to a thousandth or two with this method, and the split case makes "chasing the lands" easier as the throat erodes.

 

[vrizi]

This is my process, and just how I do things,....there are as many opinions as there are people reloading.
I will full length size a case,( no primer ). Load a bullet long where you know it will jam. Put case lube on the bullet so that it does not get stuck in the lands. Chamber the bullet and close the bolt....it will be very tight. At thi point the rifle is forcing the bullet deeper into the case. When you open the bolt open it quickly, ejcet the shell. This will now be the length of your bullet at jam length. Back off .002, and start tuni g from there, backing off in increments of .003 to see where you get your tightest shot groups.

 

[918v]

Small changes in seating depth.
I can load anywhere from .120" jump to .020" jam depending on what the rifle likes. Bullet tips are not consistent enough for COAL to be anything but a rough measurement.

It may be a rough measurement but you are altering coal when you alter the seating depth. Also, coal is important if you intend to feed the rounds from a magazine. Finally, coal can be used to make seating depth adjustments if you know the individual bullet length and reference a standard.

 

[918v]

How do you know if you're jamming the bullet into the lands?

Remember when you felt resistance in closing the bolt at 2.865” ? That’s cuz you were jamming the bullet.

 

[Carlos Danger]

This is a bullet that was touching deep into the lands....

 

[308pirate]

The OP has a problem somewhere with his method and can't seem to get an accurate measurement for some reason.

Maybe because he's new? Try helping him.

 

[308pirate]

How do you know if you're jamming the bullet into the lands?

You use your OAL tool to find the base to ogive measurement when the bullet is seated to touch the lands.

The instructions for your OAL tool should explain how to use it to find base to ogive touching the lands.

Then load at least .010" short of that.

 

[Ghillie21]

Thanks for the help everyone, I learned a lot with your replies!

I gave my rifle very thorough cleaning and tried the OAL gauge again (I gave it a tad bit more steady pressure this time) and got a BTO of 2.2155 which gives me a COAL that was very close to where I previously stated my rifle closed smoothly at 2.845" and not at 2.865".

I ended up taking 0.02" off for a BTO of 2.195 for my dummy round. I'll use this measurement as a good starting point.

 

[308pirate]

BTW, I use this to measure cartridge overall length (and by extension) throat wear.

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[TxWelder35]

You can use your seating die to keep seating deeper and measure the BTO when you don’t fee resistance any more. Probably do it in .005 increments, would take a while though. The sized case with a slit cut in works, I even used a fired case an just squeezed the neck a little with a pair of pliers to get a little bit of resistance when putting a bullet in.

 

[Rob01]

Thanks for the help everyone, I learned a lot with your replies!

I gave my rifle very thorough cleaning and tried the OAL gauge again (I gave it a tad bit more steady pressure this time) and got a BTO of 2.2155 which gives me a COAL that was very close to where I previously stated my rifle closed smoothly at 2.845" and not at 2.865".

I ended up taking 0.02" off for a BTO of 2.195 for my dummy round. I'll use this measurement as a good starting point.

Yeah you should always do it with a clean rifle so you have all the fouling out and get a good reading. Using the number you have and work from there. Don't worry about going back away a little more if need be.