Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

[jv101]

So, after talking with a fellow Hide member, i am seriously considering reloading! This will be for my 223 bushmaster varminter and will mainly be a paper punching/varmint rig! So i will be wanting to make accurate rounds, rather than more rounds per hour!

Im not sure where to start on presses, tumblers and powder measure, but i have been looking at the Lee Turret Press Kit and Lee 50th Anniversity Kit (which can be found here: http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/...ss2.html#breech )

Any and all help/suggestions would be greatly valued!

 

[jhuggans]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

I have the Lee 4 hole turret press with auto indexing. I really only use it as a single stage. If I did more pistol reloading it may be worth because of the 4 dies (decap/resize, powder/expander, seat, and factory crimp). If I were to do it over, I would do a single stage (rock chucker, coax, etc.)

Pistol dies: Lee. Affordable, your pistols won't know the difference.

Rifle dies: Forster, Redding, RCBS, maybe Lee.

Powder measure: Hornady or RCBS. They are all picky with some powders. Unless you want to spend 200 for a electronic dispenser.

If you invest in anything...make it a good digital scale.

For the record I reload 223, 308, 9mm, and 38/357.

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

i see... i was just thinking lee as its inexpensive, and the turret press would mean i wouldnt have to set the dies up all the time when switching from one stage to another!

 

[jhuggans]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

You're spot on with that reasoning. I bought an extra turret to hold rifle dies.

Now, I still check my dies every time I start a "session". Also, I don't switch from 1 die to the next often. Most of the time I am doing one thing, such as decapping/resizing 200 rounds of 223. Next session I would be doing bullet seating. That 200 rounds of decapping and resizing probably took 2 hours. Then I would spend a couple hours trimming, chamfering, and deburing.

So yeah, it's nice to just rotate it when you're ready, but really pulling out one die and throwing in another wouldn't be terrible.

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

very true, i guess i was looking at doing it like this:

deprime/resize, add powder, seat bullet, crimp = 1 round done, then do the process over again, and so on. didnt look at it like doing lots, then switching and doing the next step, and so on

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

I have the Lee Anniversary Kit. I have been using it for about a year and a half.

In addition to the Lee Kit you will need:

Tumbler (I use a Lyman)
Dies (I use the Lee set. They come with a shellholder)
Trimmer (the Lee Kit comes with the blade and stud, you will need the pilot and holder for your caliber)
Bullet Puller (I use the kinetic "hammer" type)

Bullets
Powder
Cases
Primers

The Lee Kit makes it easy because they have almost everything you need. The Lee Reloading Manual is really nice. It's got some good info.

In addition to the above, I "upgraded" to the following:
RCBS Digital Scale
Hornady "One Shot" lube

Some don't like "One Shot" and have had stuck cases with it. I never have. It's worked fine for me.

Changing out the dies is not a big deal for me since I usually load in steps at different sessions.

I keep as many cases sized, trimmed and primed as possible. I usually do all this in one session. When I am ready to load I just weight the powder charge and seat the bullet. To me it's more efficient due to less wasted motion and it uses the minimal workspace I have in a better manner.

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

well the difference in the Lee turret press kit and other lee press's isnt that much, which is why i was wondering if theres a HUGE difference in the $10 difference between one kit and the next and if one would be better for precision loads over the other!

quick question:
is it a bad idea to clean and do other case prep say when your bored or like a day or so before you want to reload. that way when you want to reload you have the cases already done from previous days and can get right to it? or is it better to do it all at once?

also whats the lube do/where does it go? does it go on the cartridges themselves? or does it go in the dies or what?

are there turret or single stage presses out there are would yeild better results then a lee? say a RCBS or something?

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

as soon as my income tax money comes back i am going to start buying equipment! so im the type of person that likes to figure out what they are gonna buy before they buy it!

so all suggestions on kits or what press, dies, etc.. to go with is greatly apprecieated (sp?)

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jv101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is it a bad idea to clean and do other case prep say when your bored or like a day or so before you want to reload. that way when you want to reload you have the cases already done from previous days and can get right to it? or is it better to do it all at once?</div></div>

I usually do my brass prep on one day and loading on another. I tumble any time I have fired brass.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also whats the lube do/where does it go? does it go on the cartridges themselves? or does it go in the dies or what?</div></div>

Lube goes on the outside of the cases and in the mouth to reduce the friction when sizing. You then remove the lube before loading.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are there turret or single stage presses out there are would yeild better results then a lee? say a RCBS or something? </div></div>

The RCBS Rockchucker Supreme is supposed to be the best single stage out there. It is a nice press, but the Lee kit is more complete. I am happy with my Lee for now, but I will probably replace it with a RCBS RS in the future just because the action feels so much smoother.

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Thanks LoneWolfUSMC!

guess its comes down to if i want a RCBS rockchucker/kit (kit = about 250-300) or a lee kit (100-150)

 

[Halfnutz]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Jv101, I got my first press when I was about 18 or 19 it was a RCBS starter kit. It was well made and had just about everything I needed. That was 20 years ago. (wow...that makes me feel kind of old). The only centerfire I had was an SKS and soft point hunting ammo was alittle more scace back then. I ended up selling the press/kit after I met my wife, once I realized I had other obligations namely a son.
I re-started with a Lee anniversary kit and it will work fine for you.
My biggest issue with the Lee equipment is the materials used, mostly injection molded plastics, aluminum or aluminum castings.
They work fine, but for how long? I used mine for about 8 years, but not hard use, and not as often as i'd have liked.
I often wished I had my RCBS equipment back.

I have replaced almost every piece of the anniversary kit in the last few years. None of it was broken or worn out, most of it was sold here to people just starting reloading. Most of my replacement equipment has been Redding (cast iron and steel).
I still use the Lee powder thrower, and some Lee dies as well as the trimmer w/stud and the hand priming tool.

I couldn't justify better at the time I bought the Lee.
Once I could afford it I bought a Dillon, and happily used the Lee press for depriming and smaller quantities until I got the Redding press this year.
The Dillon is great for higher volumes and I have used it for precision reloading also. I just prefer to use a single stage for the latter so I can better keep track of each process.

If you can swing it I would suggest you consider the RCBS.

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Halfnutz,

Thank you for some reliable info! Depending how much in taxes i get back will probably the ultimate decision on which direction ill go!

I have also read that the accuracy of the round depends alot on the dies! Ive been looking at redding dies and some other and they are all like $80+. is there really a HUGE advantage from RCBS and LEE to redding and other top named dies?

im not saying i want something soo perfect that i get 1 inch groups at 300 yards! but hitting a 4 inch clay at 400 yards, possibly further, would be nice!

 

[Halfnutz]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

I use Redding Type "S" bushing dies for my .308 and 300WM. I use Lee for .223, 7.62x39, 22-250 and some others. I've got some Dillon dies also.

Since you are going to be using these in a semi-auto IMO it's really up to you. Full length size dies are your best bet. Lee should work fine though I'm not a big fan of the lock ring on them but they are easily replaced if <span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span> don't like them.
Any reputable die maker will be good I'm sure, weather its Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Redding, etc. The Lee dies don't have the apperence that Redding does, Less work goes into them, no knurling, or coatings, the finish just isn't as nice.
I work as a machinist so I appreciate the labor that goes into the Redding. Kinda like a Timex vs a Rolex or other expensive watch, they both tell time except one looks better doing it.
Of corse one will probobly perform better than the other but it takes specialized equipment to really measure it quantifiably. You will get more out of shooting your reloads than spliting hairs over which dies to get for your rifle.
When you start looking at "special dies" such as the type "S" or precision adjustable seating dies, is when you will see a difference. You will have to decide if you need these kind of dies for the type of shooting you are doing. Lee dies have stuffed hundreds of bullets for Prarie dogs on my bench.
If I think about it, for the most part, my custom barrel guns have "expensive" dies factory tubes don't.

 

[Guns4570]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Well, I am a Dillon biggot so I have another suggestion. Dillon AT500. Its the RL550B set up as a turret press. Out of the box it can load 40 or so common calibers and just needs dies. You can always upgrade it to full progressive down the road. You have to get it from Dillon..I can't get it with a group buy any longer. Retail should be about be 250.00 or under. Call Dillon Direct.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halfnutz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jv101, I got my first press when I was about 18 or 19. It was an RCBS starter kit. It was well made and had just about everything I needed. That was 20 years ago. (Wow...that makes me feel kind of old). The only centerfire I had was an SKS, and soft point hunting ammo was a little more scarce back then. I ended up selling the press/kit after I met my wife and once I realized I had other obligations, namely a son.
I re-started with a Lee Anniversary Kit, and it will work fine for you.
My biggest issue with the Lee equipment is the materials used, mostly injection molded plastics, aluminum or aluminum castings.
They work fine, but for how long? I used mine for about 8 years, but not hard use, and not as often as I'd have liked.
I often wished I had my RCBS equipment back.

I have replaced almost every piece of the Anniversary Kit in the last few years. None of it was broken or worn out; most of it was sold here to people just starting reloading. Most of my replacement equipment has been Redding (cast iron and steel).
I still use the Lee powder thrower, and some Lee dies as well as the trimmer w/stud, and the hand priming tool.

I couldn't justify better at the time I bought the Lee.
Once I could afford it, I bought a Dillon and happily used the Lee press for depriming and smaller quantities until I got the Redding press this year.
The Dillon is great for higher volumes, and I have used it for precision reloading also. I just prefer to use a single stage for the latter so I can better keep track of each process.

If you can swing it I would suggest you consider the RCBS. </div></div>
HN,
You are a true gentleman for taking the time and interest to relate your story. It's exactly what Jv101 needed to hear. I don't usually recopy complete posts, but I wouldn't shorten yours. It needs telling.

Jv,
If possible, save your money and get the better equipment when you're able. You will be glad that you did. The RCBS kit is absolutely the best buy for the money; MidSouth usually has the RockChucker kits for $260.

As an aside, HN had wanted a Redding <span style="font-style: italic">Big Boss</span> press for a while; I know this because he had mentioned it in a post. I don't know if he saved, or if he received it as a Christmas present. But he recently got it after waiting. You'll be much happier if a little waiting will allow you to get the better equipment.

If otherwise, the other kit will allow you to reload. Take a look at the Challenger Kit rather than the Anniversary. For $10 more, it is the same kit but substitues an AutoPrime hand priming tool and a set of the tool's shellholders.

BTW, if you want first-class dies w/o paying for Redding's Competition sets, the Forster standard seating dies will get you there. Their finish is comparable to the Redding's products, and they have an alignment sleeve. If still too expensive, Hornady has an abbreviated sleeve in their seaters. Straight ammo is a key to accuracy. For under $25, Hornady sells a micrometer upgrade.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

JV101,

After having made a few rounds over the years I've discovered one thing, most kits are not "complete" and will require scrutiny of the inventory list to determinewhat else is needed, Calipers come to mind immediately.

I wrote this a while back and will have to update it soon to reflect some additional things I have discovered since. That being said it's a pretty good (IMHO) place to start.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96660#Post96660

One of my omissions was not expanding on press selection. For the money the Redding Big Boss II is near the top, Hornady's Classic Cast Single Stage is next. I recently upgraded my press to a Big Boss and have also recently discovered that the one feature I like most is not contained in it. Spent primer drop. That being said there is an upgraded ram which I will be buying soon as I think that highly of the feature now that I don't have it. The 1 - 1/4" 12TPI die opening is now mandatory in my book as the Hornady Lock-N-Load die bushings are too good not to use.

The press, dies and beam scale are the heart of your realoading set up. Spend your money well and wisely there and you will be fustration and $$$$ ahead.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Halfnutz]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Thank you for the kind words Winchester69.

Doc and jv101...My new Big BossII has a spent primer tube that comes out of the bottom of the ram. it is a piece of clear plastic tubing about 2 foot long with a cap on the end. It can be routed right into a trash can or container. no reason to even touch spent primers.

jv, Docs post that he linked too is A+, I apologize for not linking you to it myself.

My Redding press was not really that expensive, It was about $150 shipped from Graf and Sons, it is available with a auto priming upgrade but I chose not to go that route. It can easily be added later if I so choose.

The ability to use Hornady Lock N Load bushings is another reason I went with the BBII, Unfortunatly the 10 packs are on backorder just about everywhere, I have been waiting on Midway USA for over 2 months now.

I think the RCBS rockchucker press will accept the L-n-L bushing also but you would have to look up the specs to know for sure.

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Wow thanks for all the great info so far guys!

im thinking on going with the RCBS rockchucker kit now! Not sure what type of dies, i do want some dies that will give me some pretty good accuracy! but like i said, i dont need to beable to put a one inch grouping at 300 yards! (that would be nice though!)

also other than these items that dont come in the kits, what are some other MUST have items to have more accurate loads?

Tumbler
Dies
Trimmer
Bullet Puller

thanks

EDIT: Doc, just read your reloading 101, very nice write up! lost me a little on the whole case prep (mainly the part on chambering it casing, might be a little hard for me seeing as i have a AR style rifle!)

 

[Halfnutz]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Reloading Manual(s), Think about what bullets you are going to be shooting and buy thiers, 55gr v-max are great on varmint from an AR-15. I shoot mostly Hornady, but in a pinch Nosler and Sierra both make a balistic tip that perform as well in my opinion. Lyman's manual covers alittle of all the bullet makers and is an excellent first book. I have a stack and I cross reference bullet wieghts and powders in serveral often the powder you have or are considering can be used in others. .223 and .308 have alot of common powders for instance. Powder companies will often have handouts, downloads, or mailings that can help too.

Like Doc said a good set of dial calipers, You will need a set for knowing when to trim and also for your cartridges ovar all length. IMO These should be included in a starter kit but aren't.
There are hundreds of uses you will find for them when working on your toys.
At home I use a set of 6in Mititoyo's that are great for the money but they aren't cheap either $80-$100. These are not digital.
I use some digitals at work because they issued them to me and they are handy for some things because you can reset the zero on them for reference. If you want digitals I think you should spend the money on them, Brown and Sharp, Mititoyo, or Starrett are the only ones I would reccomend based on what I have seen around the shop. I would also say the same for non digitals but I know that RCBS and prolly Lyman and other reloading companies sell them too, though I can't/won't comment on thier quality.
As a machinist I'm alittle biased on measuring tools.
Absolutly do not spend a nickel on any made entirely of plastic.
Calipers used with Hornady's LnL case length gage with a bullet comparator and a headspace bushing is one other thing I did without but wished I hadn't for as long as I did.

A tumbler is nice but you could clean up your cases at the same time you are trimming with the Lee set-up and a little scoth-brite. I did this for quite a while before buying a tumbler. When you get a tumbler it's nice to get a seperator too. I use a Frankford Arsenal rotary seperator and it works fine. I think Midway may have a Tumbler kit that has one included. Don't get in a hurry for it, wait til it's on sale or shop around a little.

I bought a plug in timmer like you hook up to a lamp or a sprinkler system. I usually set it to run while no one is home (the ol'Lady hates the sound of it) it can be a little annoying if you are in the same room with it.(I meant the tumbler not the ol'lady).

Bullet puller, yeah you'll make a mistake sooner or later, even if it's just seating a bullet a little deeper than you wanted while adjusting your seater die. Again I bought a cheap Frankford Arsenal one, it works fine. Drop an eraser in it before useing it to protect the bullet tips. I have buggerd up the tips on A-max's before this occured to me. I've never used a press mounted puler but wouldn't scoff at ones use, some are reported to be better than others for one reason or another. If I had a bunch of surplus stuff to pull or really f**ked up a bunch of rounds I would wish I had one.

Stuck case remover, I think you only stick a case if you don't own one. Or maybe once you stick one and have to buy it you've learned your lesson. I believe these are sold seperatly from a starter kit in hopes you will order more stuff, or buy a replacement decapping rod once you have damaged yours with a hammer trying to get it unstuck.

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

well as far as bullets go, im not really looking to blow varmints up, if one comes out i want to drop it, but my rifle is mainly for paper/milk jugs/can, etc..!
So im thinking maybe like sierra and hornady bullets!

about how much am i excepting to pay (minus the brass,bullets, and etc..) on equipment that is/should be needed?

 

[Halfnutz]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Now you need to decide on how important the other items are at the start, Pull up Midway USA, or Graf and Sons, or just google reloading equipment and start looking for what you want.

Calipers are a must IMO, $30 to $100+, since your kit comes with a manual you could work out of it to get started.
All the rest is only needed if you want it or if you stick a case or make a mistake.
You will soon learn that case prep is the crappy part, your fingers get tired/sore, it's boring, it's messy.
Maybe it's best to start out without a tumbler just so that once you get one it's more appreciated.
Bullet pullers and stuck case removers are only needed if you mess up, they're like an insurence policy.

I think it's best to get your starter kit,a set of calipers, and something to trim cases with and get started learning the process. You will soon figure out what extras you think you want, some you will like others may or not be as great as they seem. I just wanted to give you some things to think about that I have some experience with and think they are worthwhile in the future.

Once you get your kit read and follow the manual and all the instructions, take your time, be safe. If you get stuck on something stop and ask.
Load up 10 or 20 cartridges to start with and go shoot them. Go back home and read the begining of the manual again and repeat.
See how it performs next to some factory ammo, maybe USA whitebox stuff at first then against some match grade.

If you go out and buy a bunch of gadgets and stuff you will just get overwhelmed.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halfnutz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the RCBS rockchucker press will accept the L-n-L bushing also, but you would have to look up the specs to know for sure.</div></div>
The LnL conversion will work with the RockChucker should that option be attractive to you.

The following link may be interesting and perhaps broadening:

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/5741094201

If you were to borrow or otherwise acquire a manual prior to purchasing your equipment you will be ahead of the game.

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

so maybe ill just get a few manuals, read up on that and figure out what i need/want to some extent!

ive heard lymans manual is pretty good, id be interested in picking up about 3 manuals, any suggestions?

quite honestly, i dont know where to start, sometimes i read to much online! maybe a few manuals/reloading books would do me some good!

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

pretty much, what i need is someone to smack me in the face and say, you need to get this...or this will be your best bet and like do that for whatever i need! i am trying to research on my own, however it just seems very overwhelming sometimes hah!

 

[doc76251]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

JV,

Shoot me a PM and we'll crawl, walk, run you through it. You won't be the first and dare I say you won't be the last.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[jv101]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

Thanks Doc!

shot you a PM!

 

[Crazy Dog ll]

Re: Help with reloading/handloading equipment!

In Cabela's catolog and online ,all sorts of reloading maneuls can be found,but get the vedios on Beginners to REload. If you going to buy your equipment from a gun shop,ask and they will problary show you a few steps.... hope this helps.