Help with some .308 Brass issues

[doubled]

I bought 1000 once fired brass; full length sized and trimmed to 2.005

I started sorting them and figured I would chamber some samples to ensure that they fit the rifle ok. About 3 out of 10 pieces chamber but I can not close the bolt. I can push it forward but it will not go down into the locked position without more force than I am willing to attempt.

I have measured the cases best I can with a pair of digital calipers, here are my readings. G1 and G2 are "good" and X1 and X2 are "bad" or unable to close the bolt on

Here are the cases. There is a visible difference in the length of the neck (those are not dimples, that's just the light reflection)

The one measurement not in the table is the bottom of the case to the bottom of the neck. spec is 1.711 and it is 1.711 on G1 and G2 and 1.748 and 1.747 on X1 and X2.

X1 and X2 also show extractor marks on the bottom of the cases (hard to see in the pictures, X1 and X2 are the far left in the pics where they are upside down.

Rifle is out of the box Remington 700 AAC-SD...

I have full sized X1 and X2 in my own dies (.308 RCBS Competition dies) and they still do not chamber, measurements are the same as they were before I did my own sizing.

Can anyone help me understand why the ones that won't chamber won't - these 4 examples are all LC 11 stamped. I can trim the necks down on X1 and X2 but that is going to shorten the case quite a bit.

Thoughts or suggestions as to why these are not functioning for me?

 

[doubled]

Re: Help with some .308 Brass issues

I've now re-sized x1 and x2 twice in my own dies, same result and measurements. re-sized 1x fired brass I had from last range trip and they measure up and work fine.

I can't understand what is going on with the ones that won't run in my gun.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Help with some .308 Brass issues

doubled,

You have a case shoulder length problem. You need to be able to accurately measure the case from the base to the case shoulder datum line. The only way you can do this accurately is to use something like a Wilson case headspace gauge ($35?) which is a direct feel / look go no go chunk of steel, these are very fast to use and impossible to misuse. But I would recommend a Hornady LNL head space and bullet comparator setup for the additional data it will provide you with for reloading. The Hornady LNL headspace tool comes with several inserts and the insert body. To make this tool work you will also need LNL anvil base and a .308 bullet insert so you can measure the bullet ogive to case base. This allows you to determine seating depth based on ogive instead of base to tip. This comes to about $55 for all the parts you need, works great. You will also need a good set of 6" calipers, digital are easier to use allowing you to direct-read measurements without having to subtract your zero reading. If you had one of these gauges you would see that your shoulders are probably a bit too long which is telling you that your FL sizing dies need to be set correctly in your press. The other possibility is very remote, your dies are out of spec.

HTH!

 

[doubled]

Re: Help with some .308 Brass issues

you seem to be correct. I always set my dies by screwing it in until the shell holder touches the bottom of the die, then backing off it 1/4 to 1/8th of a turn. I just re-ran a bad one thru my die with no backoff and it now chambers fine and the shoulders match the "g" cases...

sorting thru 1000 of these is going to be an asswhip.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Help with some .308 Brass issues

+1 shoulders need bumping, you can even see higher shoulders of x1 and x2 in your pic.

I'm guessing your x1 fired cases that chamber ok from your previous range trip, simply havnt grown enough to be a problem yet, and your die setting isn't actualy sizing the shoulders yet..

Screw your die in a little bit at a time, keep sizing X1 and X2 until they chamber in your rifle with the tiniest bit of resistance..
Screw the die in a touch more and record the setting

(and think about getting the hornady or Wilson tool that YAOG mentioned)

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Help with some .308 Brass issues

You beat me to it.. I write too slow!

 

[doubled]

Re: Help with some .308 Brass issues

thanks guys - adjusting my die did the trick, the die must have become out of adjustment when the person sizing them was sizing them up for me. I think I will get one of those tools for the future too.

 

[Korruptor]

Re: Help with some .308 Brass issues

Get a Lyman Case Length Headspace Gauge - $18 @ MidwayUSA. Simple enough, as long as the case drops in and doesn't stick out anywhere, you're within .308 Winchester SAAMI specs. Once-fired 7.62x51mm NATO chamber dimensions will vary widely, even to swallowing whole .308 no-go gauges. You'll need to run your entire lot through the full-length resizing process to .308 shoulder and web spec, then only neck-size once they've been fire-formed to <span style="font-weight: bold">your</span> chamber.

Hornady Lock-n-Load Headspace Gauge Set w/ Comparator - $37 @ MidwayUSA
The numbers you'll be looking for with this is the .400 die and a base-to-datum line of 1.634" (-0.007")

Who ever previously set up your equipment did it per instructions for the minimum amount of brass wear upon resizing .308 Win. That however, doesn't account for resizing NATO brass.

 

[memo43]

Re: Help with some .308 Brass issues

The brass you bought was indeed once fired LC brass. Only problem is it was fired through a machine gun, the belt(links) on the cases control the headspace when fired. This helps out with malfunctions. After all who needs jams in the middle of a firefight.
You need a headspace gauge and painfully measure them from the shoulde to ensure your safety.
Also Since it was once fired through a machine gun they may still have the crimp, unless you took care of it. It looks visible in the pics
I would set up the dies to give you a 3 thousands bump. Kind of sucks but it beats damageing a rifle or yourself.
sorry to be the guy to give you bad news.
Send me a pm and I might be able to help you out.

memo