Hinch, Luhnow, and now Cora

JMGlasgow

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Cheaters got what they deserved. I think the players involved should be punished as well, but with the players union that's virtually impossible. The game has yet again been tarnished.
 
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JMGlasgow

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Hopefully. And the 2017 and 2018 World Series winners will have an asterisk next to them in the history books.

I think Cora should be banned from baseball for life, and I wouldn't mind if Hinch and Luhnow were as well. Send a message to the rest of the teams who participated and weren't caught.
 
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just browsing

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Hinch (and likely Luhnow) will be re-hired after their timeouts, I have no doubt. I understand that their involvement, or I guess lack thereof, landed them on the exempt list, but they were hardly the driving forces behind it. Manfred’s report would seem to indicate that both of them were quite against it actually but didn’t do anything about it.

Cora I think will end up taking the brunt of the fall given that he is the common denominator with both organizations, and I don’t think that’s unfair.

That being said, I think all professional sports organizations are guilty of trying to gain a competitive edge via means that would otherwise be frowned upon or deserve punishment. Much like the NCAA recruiting circuit - you’re kidding yourself if you think these were/are the only perpetrators and everyone else follows the law.
 

JMGlasgow

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I never said they were the only ones doing it, but they were pretty blatant about it and got caught.

Regardless of whether Hinch and Luhnow were against it they allowed it to happen, and they were in charge of what goes on with the team. They didn't put an end to it, so they hold more responsibility as leaders of the team.

Beltran is now on the block so we'll see what happens with him.
 
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RG0099

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I think MLB did 95% of a GREAT job. The ruling is still out on Cora as he has yet to receive his punishment. I feel pretty strongly that he will be attending a lot of autograph sessions with Pete Rose (who by the way really got shafted and is one of the best to ever step foot on a diamond!!!!!!)

As far as the 5% i think MLB dropped the ball on is the players. I don't think they could be punished for a year, but they surely should have sat them down for 15-20 game timeout.

You have to wonder if that had something to do with Cole making a B line right after the last out?

Now to Beltran. Man I sure wouldn't want to go through the hell he will have to endure if he stays on in New York.

Bottom line it was a sad day for Baseball, but it is the game I love, and I'm comfortable with what has happened.

Baseball will survive because God loves it too. The first words in The bible are " in the big inning." ha ha
 

JMGlasgow

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Let's not bring religion to this thread. I have certain beliefs and you have yours and others have theirs.

Now, Beltran should be held accountable as well, his involvement was made clear in the report. And I do think the players involved and who participated should get some form of punishment.
 

RG0099

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Let's not bring religion to this thread. I have certain beliefs and you have yours and others have theirs.
Point taken, SORRY, was trying to make a funny.

But I think we feel the same way about the penalties.
 
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pmclaine

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Fuck the whole Red Sox organization - Get woke, Go Broke!

Sure everyone hates Tom Yawkey now but I didnt see any of the hospitals he gave millions to give back their money.
 

goinghunting

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I'm all for hitting all the guys involved hard. Lifetime if need be. Especially now with all the talk related to Altuve not wanting his shirt ripped which could result in showing the little buzzer contraption. Which is a major stretch to begin with. That being said it wouldn't surprise me. I've always thought that he(Altuve )has taken a lot of un-naturally hard swings now and then. Like he has known what pitch was coming.
 

Ken Burton

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I don't follow MLB much anymore but I think that some of those involved should suffer more of what Pete Rose has gone through, at least he was betting on his team to win with the bookies and not plain ass cheating, kick some of the players and coaches,etc. out of baseball and not allow them in the HOF like Pete's been dealing with. JMHO
 

JMGlasgow

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The players got immunity for information. Even the memo that was released in 2018 said that only the GM and Manager would be held accountable for allowing it to happen. But I agree, there should have been punishments to the players, even if it was only fines.
 

WATERWALKER

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Stealing signs gas always been a part of the game. To say otherwise would be naive at best. This is only a big deal because it makes MLB look bad in the public eye.

I don’t watch MLB on TV nearly as often as in years past. I just don’t have the time w/ work, kids & everyday activities as well as coaching. I see no reason why tech is allowed in the dugout or on the sidelines, etc. play the game like it was meant to be played.

As for those mentioning asterisks, does Barry Bonds have an asterisk next to his name?

Pete Rose should most definitely be in the HOF.
 

Tylerm713

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This will eventually be forgotten just like Deflate-gate and Spygate (both of which are significantly bigger advantages than the Astros' sign stealing).
 

Charger442

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Stealing signs gas always been a part of the game. To say otherwise would be naive at best. This is only a big deal because it makes MLB look bad in the public eye.

I don’t watch MLB on TV nearly as often as in years past. I just don’t have the time w/ work, kids & everyday activities as well as coaching. I see no reason why tech is allowed in the dugout or on the sidelines, etc. play the game like it was meant to be played.

As for those mentioning asterisks, does Barry Bonds have an asterisk next to his name?

Pete Rose should most definitely be in the HOF.

Asterisks aren't physically placed on something, it's always in the minds of the fans. So to that, it's generally accepted that Bonds does have an asterisk by his record, since everyone knows he sterioded until his head was the size of a cape buffalo.

The fans know and will " place" the asterisk accordingly.

This will eventually be forgotten just like Deflate-gate and Spygate (both of which are significantly bigger advantages than the Astros' sign stealing).
Haha, no, deflate gate was really not a big deal at all, but spygate may be comparable. Though the Astros did their cheating for at least 3 seasons during games.
 
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jakelly

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This will eventually be forgotten just like Deflate-gate and Spygate (both of which are significantly bigger advantages than the Astros' sign stealing).
You’ve clearly never tried to hit big league stuff.

Ban them all for life. Ban the roid boys, too.
 

Tylerm713

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Haha, no, deflate gate was really not a big deal at all, but spygate may be comparable. Though the Astros did their cheating for at least 3 seasons during games.
I honestly haven't researched it that much, but didn't the MLB report say there was only evidence of cheating in 2017 and the first part of 2018?

You’ve clearly never tried to hit big league stuff.
I haven't, but I'm not sure why that's relevant.
 

JMGlasgow

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It's relevant because if you know what pitch is coming it becomes significantly easier to hit or know when to take a pitch. Especially at the big league level where fastballs are faster, curves have more movement, changeups are more difficult to hit and good ones are somewhat unpredictable, etc. Most starting pitchers have 3 go to pitches, fastball, changeup, or slider/curveball.

I also believe that select Astros players used buzzers in 2019. There was a clear core group of cheaters, and then the rest of the team who were probably kept out of the loop.

Players' careers were ruined as a result of the Astros electronic sign stealing scandal. Correa in my mind is a complete piece of shit, especially for saying they won the 2017 World Series "fair and square". The MLB giving immunity to players so they would talk is a black eye on the sport. Pete Rose didn't come close to this type of scandal and he got banned for life. I guess money talks as well as being the darlings of MLB so they walk. Every player and coach, manager etc. on that team should be forced to give back the championship money as punishment.
 

jakelly

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Because knowing what pitch is coming is a way bigger advantage than anything that can be done on the football field.
 

Tylerm713

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It's relevant because if you know what pitch is coming it becomes significantly easier to hit or know when to take a pitch.
No, I mean why is it relevant whether I've tried to hit a baseball thrown my a major league pitcher? There are a lot of things I haven't personally done that I can have an informed opinion about.
Especially at the big league level where fastballs are faster, curves have more movement, changeups are more difficult to hit and good ones are somewhat unpredictable, etc. Most starting pitchers have 3 go to pitches, fastball, changeup, or slider/curveball.
I agree that if you know the exact pitch 100% of the time, it can be an advantage over the course of a whole season. However, I think people misunderstand how difficult it is to steal signs, even with video equipment. You have about 2 seconds to recognize the sign, decode it, and relay the information to the batter.
I also believe that select Astros players used buzzers in 2019. There was a clear core group of cheaters, and then the rest of the team who were probably kept out of the loop.
There's literally zero evidence of it, but I certainly can't prove they didn't. You're entitled to believe whatever you want. But you can't punish based on speculation.
Players' careers were ruined as a result of the Astros electronic sign stealing scandal. Correa in my mind is a complete piece of shit, especially for saying they won the 2017 World Series "fair and square". The MLB giving immunity to players so they would talk is a black eye on the sport. Pete Rose didn't come close to this type of scandal and he got banned for life. I guess money talks as well as being the darlings of MLB so they walk. Every player and coach, manager etc. on that team should be forced to give back the championship money as punishment.
That's a bit of hyperbole to say careers were ruined. But I agree that Pete Rose never should have been banned. The players cheated. there's no way around that, but to advocate for them being banned for life is a severe overreaction.
Because knowing what pitch is coming is a way bigger advantage than anything that can be done on the football field.
Strongly disagree there. Knowing what play is coming in football is probably one of the biggest advantages a team can have in any sport. Stack 9 in the box against a run play, it's going to go the defense's way 99/100 times. Hitting a 98 mph fastball is incredibly difficult, even if you know with certainty that it's coming. But anyone that's ever tried stealing signs knows you're doing good to get it right 75% of the time.
 

jakelly

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Because never having done it you can’t appreciate the reaction time necessary. Without understanding the speed and timing, how do you know how big of an advantage it is? Starting in higher level high school, hitters have to start thinking fastball and reacting to everything else. Why? Not enough time for anything else. After about upper 80s the reaction time is pretty quick. ARod was tipping pitches to his buddies to pad their stats when the game was decided. That’s how big of an advantage it is.

Comparing that to knowing a team’s defensive scheme isn’t a two horse race.
 

Charger442

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And the excuses made for why he didn't want his shirt ripped off were total bullshit.
Yes and then you knew they were bullshit when they came up with a new excuse for it at the beginning of spring training. Had Correa deliver the bullshit.
It's like watching a 9 year old tell you it was someone else who shit in the bathtub.
 
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JMGlasgow

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No, I mean why is it relevant whether I've tried to hit a baseball thrown my a major league pitcher? There are a lot of things I haven't personally done that I can have an informed opinion about.

I agree that if you know the exact pitch 100% of the time, it can be an advantage over the course of a whole season. However, I think people misunderstand how difficult it is to steal signs, even with video equipment. You have about 2 seconds to recognize the sign, decode it, and relay the information to the batter.

There's literally zero evidence of it, but I certainly can't prove they didn't. You're entitled to believe whatever you want. But you can't punish based on speculation.

That's a bit of hyperbole to say careers were ruined. But I agree that Pete Rose never should have been banned. The players cheated. there's no way around that, but to advocate for them being banned for life is a severe overreaction.

Strongly disagree there. Knowing what play is coming in football is probably one of the biggest advantages a team can have in any sport. Stack 9 in the box against a run play, it's going to go the defense's way 99/100 times. Hitting a 98 mph fastball is incredibly difficult, even if you know with certainty that it's coming. But anyone that's ever tried stealing signs knows you're doing good to get it right 75% of the time.
Where did I say banned for life? I said fine them the amount of money they received for winning the World Series. I'd even say fine them an entire years salary for this shit.