Historic Monument Comes Down in Richmond Virginia

jerryrva

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Live on TV, the Stonewall Jackson Statue is coming down on the first day the state law allowed the city to remove it. A sad day. A person opposed to its removal was escorted away for his own safety according to police.
 
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jerryrva

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The city loved all the monuments when they celebrated the 150 anniversary of the Civil War from 2011 to 2015. Flags everyone and people spending money.
 
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darkfader

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I work in Clarksburg, WV, birthplace of Stonewall Jackson. There was a weak movement to remove his statue here, but city council voted to keep it. There are far more important issues to solve than “offensive” statues I guess.
 
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CSGambill

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Corner of 69th and yo momma
America used to be such a Great country.....
I sill think there are a lot of great people in the country, or at least people with potential to be Great. Presently, the price of action, whatever form that may be, exceeds the price of inaction. Those people, likely some on this site, have jobs, mortgages, and families to feed.

Once the cost of inaction becomes too high, maybe then we will see Greatness on the rise. I would wager that despite understanding where this mess is leading, until that balance tips, the fear of failure for pledging one's life, fortune and sacred honor is too high.

Maybe the clock is ticking towards that tipping point. Maybe I'm justifying copping out.
 

jerryrva

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God has stopped it with lightning and thunder.
 

CavScout85

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The city loved all the monuments when they celebrated the 150 anniversary of the Civil War from 2011 to 2015. Flags everyone and people spending money.
Whatever is filling the coffers that particular day...
 
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Snuby642

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Yes I no longer have any faith in my local pd.

They said they would haul me off to protect protesters (rioters).

Ok with me I said, don't park in my line of sight.

Bunch of sory muther fuckers to admit that.

If you are not part of the solution you are a problem, stay away.

Who the fuck are these people?

I will defend myself from all attacks.
 

jerryrva

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God has stopped exactly what?
Only a temporary delay as they removed it in the rain once the lightning went away. Funny thing is that Richmond hired a Connecticut firm to remove it.
 

NY700

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For those that feel it is wrong that the statue was taken down. I’m curious. Why do you think it went up?

The statue was unveiled 50+ years after the civil war ended.

as a general rule we don’t create statues just to tell history. We create statues to honor men and women or events worthy of our admiration and toinspire

there is a monument to honor those who lost their life at Pearl Harbor. Would youfind it wrong 70years after the event to honor the Japanese pilots and put up statues of them?
 

MtnCreek

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For those that feel it is wrong that the statue was taken down. I’m curious. Why do you think it went up?

The statue was unveiled 50+ years after the civil war ended.

as a general rule we don’t create statues just to tell history. We create statues to honor men and women or events worthy of our admiration and toinspire

there is a monument to honor those who lost their life at Pearl Harbor. Would youfind it wrong 70years after the event to honor the Japanese pilots and put up statues of them?
It's not surprising you're confused by this. Haven't you referred to yourself as a man, then later as a woman? Unless I'm mistaken, it seems you find the simplest things confusing.
 
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Jscb1b

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For those that feel it is wrong that the statue was taken down. I’m curious. Why do you think it went up?

The statue was unveiled 50+ years after the civil war ended.

as a general rule we don’t create statues just to tell history. We create statues to honor men and women or events worthy of our admiration and toinspire

there is a monument to honor those who lost their life at Pearl Harbor. Would youfind it wrong 70years after the event to honor the Japanese pilots and put up statues of them?
If your in Japan, go ahead.
 

FS1

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The most powerful thing you can do right now is don't buy from the corporate woke. Even your favorite products if need be. That is all they understand money. You have the power. The question is do you have the resolve? JMHO

If you give up a favorite product write a paper letter and let them know why. Paper is also powerful because it takes time and shows resolve.
 
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jerryrva

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The Mayor has identified 11 statues and cannons on city property to remove. Today it was Mathew Fontaine Maury. A non combatant during the Civil War as he was in Europe most of the time on various missions for the Confederacy. Know as the "Pathfinder of the Seas" and the father of modern meteorology and naval oceanography. He also wrote a book titled The Physical Geology of Virginia. His bust is featured in New York city's Hall of Fame for Great Americans.

Many national and international awards and honors were given to him including most recently in March 2013, the US Navy launched the oceanographic survey ship USNS Maury.

Overlooked today is his efforts as early as 1851 to end slavery in the South.
 

Kamerad

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Ok, let's get a peaceful protest together and tear down Lenin.....see how the media portrays that.....
The Lenin statue in Seattle is on private property.
 

Kamerad

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We've been shown by the left that anything is legal at this point. Use their own reasoning against them.

Taking the moral high road has NOT worked....its time to step up the game. If not, we lose....
Agreed.
 

Sgt47

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The Lenin statue is for sale for $250,000. Bought from a Czech scrap yard in 1993 for $13,000. Ain't capitalism great.
 
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Kamerad

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The Lenin statue is for sale for $250,000. Bought from a Czech scrap yard in 1993 for $13,000. Ain't capitalism great.
How cool would that be, buy it and use it for a match. It would make a great long range target. Or the Knob Creek MG shoot.
 
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pmclaine

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For those that feel it is wrong that the statue was taken down. I’m curious. Why do you think it went up?

The statue was unveiled 50+ years after the civil war ended.

as a general rule we don’t create statues just to tell history. We create statues to honor men and women or events worthy of our admiration and toinspire

there is a monument to honor those who lost their life at Pearl Harbor. Would youfind it wrong 70years after the event to honor the Japanese pilots and put up statues of them?

Went on a family trip.

We stopped here....

1593709912396.png

and here.....

1593709948905.png

because I wanted my kids to see this stuff before its erased.

I noted at the bottom of Jacksons statue these two stones....

1593710048194.png

Looks like they successfully rejoined the Union. What sacrifices have you made?


.

Many of these statues were installed as the soldiers of the era reached the end of their lives, 1920s era, similar to how it took 50 plus years to build a WWII memorial and we got all melancholy with the Band of Brothers series and Saving Private Ryan.

Dying soldiers were trying to create some lasting memory of their struggles.

Ever been to a Japanese monument park? A common theme is that they represent the dead of both sides.

Its the victor that gets to wipe his dick over the suffering of the vanquished.

While in Charleston I noted a statue depicting a CSA soldier. It had been graffiti-ed recently. It didnt promote the CSA it simply lamented the dead.

This is Fort Devens, MA....

1593711280873.png

1593711309977.png

This is in Bedford MA, on the route to Concord....

1593711383917.png

When do we erase that history and dig up those bodies?
 
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NY700

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Went on a family trip.

We stopped here....

View attachment 7364945

and here.....

View attachment 7364946

because I wanted my kids to see this stuff before its erased.

I noted at the bottom of Jacksons statue these two stones....

View attachment 7364948

Looks like they successfully rejoined the Union. What sacrifices have you made?


.

Many of these statues were installed as the soldiers of the era reached the end of their lives, 1920s era, similar to how it took 50 plus years to build a WWII memorial and we got all melancholy with the Band of Brothers series and Saving Private Ryan.

Dying soldiers were trying to create some lasting memory of their struggles.

Ever been to a Japanese monument park? A common theme is that they represent the dead of both sides.

Its the victor that gets to wipe his dick over the suffering of the vanquished.

While in Charleston I noted a statue depicting a CSA soldier. It had been graffiti-ed recently. It didnt promote the CSA it simply lamented the dead.

This is Fort Devens, MA....

View attachment 7364962

View attachment 7364963

This is in Bedford MA, on the route to Concord....

View attachment 7364964

When do we erase that history and dig up those bodies?
You make a wonderful point

there is a fine line and a tough one to balance to acknowledge and respect something with out glorifying or demeaning something.

the fact is yes history is written by the winners.
we see this with Columbus Day. As an American of Italian heritage my mother was distraught at the swing in popular opinion on this day. Is it possible to show respect for one mans bribery and courage without elevating them beyond the reality of the consequences of their actions?

can you respect the fighters of the confederate army for their struggles and bravery with out elevating the the level of hero.

perhaps it’s simply in the the method of acknowledging something. A simple plaque denoting time and place of an event. Mentioning the participants and recognizing their efforts. That is history. Statues, busts are monuments typically held for heroes. Victors.

would I be offended or upset by a plaque that recognizes Gen Lees place of birth or death or marking points of victory or loss. I don’t think so that’s simply history. Do I think he is deserving of a 15ft statue in the center of a town. No absolutely not.

we tend to be to black or white too binary in our thinking.

we should be able to have a conversation that recognizes the massive achievements of what nazi germany was able to accomplish and the massive gains in so many areas while still discussing Hitler as one of the great monsters of human kind. One does not remove the other.
 
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Longshot231

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While they are tearing down statues of racists they need to demolish this one...

1593748340235.png

1593748361872.png
 
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NY700

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While they are tearing down statues of racists they need to demolish this one...

View attachment 7365374

View attachment 7365375
You make a good point. Byrd’s history is certainly without flaw.

after the death of his grandson he discussed the profound change in position he had towards many of his social positions. He discussed his regrets for voting record on civil rights and spent most of his time in office attempting to make up for those failures.

he was also the only democrat to vote to censure Clinton
 

pmclaine

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You make a wonderful point

there is a fine line and a tough one to balance to acknowledge and respect something with out glorifying or demeaning something.

the fact is yes history is written by the winners.
we see this with Columbus Day. As an American of Italian heritage my mother was distraught at the swing in popular opinion on this day. Is it possible to show respect for one mans bribery and courage without elevating them beyond the reality of the consequences of their actions?

can you respect the fighters of the confederate army for their struggles and bravery with out elevating the the level of hero.

perhaps it’s simply in the the method of acknowledging something. A simple plaque denoting time and place of an event. Mentioning the participants and recognizing their efforts. That is history. Statues, busts are monuments typically held for heroes. Victors.

would I be offended or upset by a plaque that recognizes Gen Lees place of birth or death or marking points of victory or loss. I don’t think so that’s simply history. Do I think he is deserving of a 15ft statue in the center of a town. No absolutely not.

we tend to be to black or white too binary in our thinking.

we should be able to have a conversation that recognizes the massive achievements of what nazi germany was able to accomplish and the massive gains in so many areas while still discussing Hitler as one of the great monsters of human kind. One does not remove the other.

Here are a couple of other monuments from the founding moment of our country.....

1593769703688.png

It brings the human touch to the event. It makes it live and you feel some little bit of the feelings of that day.

What is not mentioned at this one is the death of one of these soldiers put us on the arc to being a sovereign country.

A boy came upon these soldiers at the Concord side of the bridge after the first skirmish. Realizing one was wounded he crushed his skull with an ax.

A British Patrol returning from the farms on the opposite side of the bridge came upon their maimed comrade. They thought the Minuteman had scalped the soldier or violated his body. When they returned to the main body of Troops in Concord they told of the "attrocity" and determined they would also give no quarter.

The chance for cooler heads to prevail was lost.

Here is another monument on Battle Road that makes the day human...blow it up to read it.

1593770286524.png

Humans participated in these great events that if you only read about them you get the sterile version.

Sterility is the mark of socialism and Communism. It is gray and boring with no humanity.

Humans are both fallible and heroic. You have to accept it all.

There is no perspective on the heroism of Joshua Chamberlain unless you recognize the Alabama troops he faced were close to his equal in battle courage.

America guarantees opportunity. Our freedom does not guarantee you life free of offense.

If I must accept the art of Robert Mapplethorpe the Communists can accept the public works of generations from an earlier age.
 

Longshot231

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I’ve been saying this for a long time but some people look at me like I have two heads.

 
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jerryrva

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Ha “fake news”. This is an old photo circulating. Byrd was not a grand wizard of the kkk. He was a member and local organizer of the kkk in his younger years. It openly talks about it in his memoir and renounced the organization
He modified his views for political gain. A quote of his from 1944.
"I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."
 

pmclaine

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He modified his views for political gain. A quote of his from 1944.
"I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."
I thnk he spent WWII as a shipyard welder.

Any chance he used his racism as a means to draft dodge?

Nah couldn't be!

@meangreengunner says only Trump is a draft dodger.
 

NY700

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I thnk he spent WWII as a shipyard welder.

Any chance he used his racism as a means to draft dodge?

Nah couldn't be!

@meangreengunner says only Trump is a draft dodger.
lots of guys in history have dodged the draft

also plenty of people and politicians who have changed their mind/position. Look at Trump a life long Democrat, till he decided not to be
 

pmclaine

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lots of guys in history have dodged the draft

also plenty of people and politicians who have changed their mind/position. Look at Trump a life long Democrat, till he decided not to be

Only leftists "grow" and get the benefit of their new positions.

Conservatives once tainted always bear a Scarlet Letter.
 

308pirate

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we see this with Columbus Day. As an American of Italian heritage my mother was distraught at the swing in popular opinion on this day. Is it possible to show respect for one mans bribery and courage without elevating them beyond the reality of the consequences of their actions?
You pompous fuck......without Christopher Columbus the Americas would still be a cesspool of primitive peoples, tribal warfare, and pagan religions complete with human sacrifice.

America, left to its own native devices, would be today likely worse off than Africa.

Get the fuck out of here with that shit

Signed

The descendant of Spanish colonists.

escudo_de_puerto_rico.jpg
 
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Maggot

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You pompous fuck......without Christopher Columbus the Americas would still be a cesspool of primitive peoples, tribal warfare, and pagan religions complete with human sacrifice.

America, left to its own native devices, would be today likely worse off than Africa.

Get the fuck out of here with that shit

Signed

The descendant of Spanish colonists.

View attachment 7369828
You need to wake the fuck up.

To begin with the Spanish, and their Inquisitions, were as or more brutal than anything that happened in the Americas. There were high civilizations here when Europe was still in the dark ages. The natives, of North America, especially those of the north east had representative governments while Europe was still worshiping Kings. Who is to say your choice of religions is the right one...you can only say that because your side was the victor and wrote history.

Signed,

The descendant of English colonists.
 

NY700

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You need to wake the fuck up.

To begin with the Spanish, and their Inquisitions, were as or more brutal than anything that happened in the Americas. There were high civilizations here when Europe was still in the dark ages. The natives, of North America, especially those of the north east had representative governments while Europe was still worshiping Kings. Who is to say your choice of religions is the right one...you can only say that because your side was the victor and wrote history.

Signed,

The descendant of English colonists.
there is only so much you can hope to show some folks.

my parents had a neighbor in Florida. Their position on slavery was that we rescued Africans from the hell they were in and therefor the slaves should have been thankful. I couldn’t even begin to imagine how to respond to that in a meaningful way. Ironically these are people who Also believe strongly in civil liberties. So they were willing to stand to say they personal freedoms and liberties should not be trespassed against but that buying a stealing humans was really us doing them a service?!?